Uh Ho: Obama Says Vietnamese Dictator Inspired by Founding Fathers

In terms of freedom from the french colonialists that much is true....but George Washington turned down the opportunity to be king (dictator) of the new american states.

reply to post by CosmicCitizen


No you just got a president (dictator) instead

You just get to pretend to change your dictator every 5 years instead


Anyway a King does not nessarly mean a dicator. Not if its a constitutional monarchy. In a constitutional monarchy a elected parliment rule and the Monarch.....well I dunno what the UK Monarch does actually not since Charles I in 1649.

reply to post by xuenchen


I dont recall the slogan of communism... But wasnt it somthing about poor and workers unite.

In a world, like the united states. That claim to be democratic and then work against communism is about as off as it gets.

The united states is mainly controlled by people who think they are god, or the descendants of gof. The issue of multicultural state, is a replication of the destruction of babylon. What did god do, he struck babylon so that all the citizens spoke diffirent languages, so they would be against each other and couldnt unite.

This is the heart of western and modern society.

The idea of multicultural society, is not to unite people ... But to separate nations.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

Is there something wrong now with calling Obama out as a jerk or a fool when, in specific examples, he has been a jerk or a fool?

What he said here about Uncle Ho and the Vietnam War was being an outright fool and showing his own ignorance of history.

I had hoped to get through all the comments before bringing some history into this discussion. But - this falsehood is unbearable - Obama is actually showing an understanding of History that is lacking in many of his age in the US.

As xuenchen stated Ho Chi Minh did study with marxists. It wasn't the only thing he studied.

Viet Nam was a colony of France. in 1946, Ho Chi Minh wrote to President Truman asking for US help in throwing off their colonial master. He believed the US would help because of it's pride in throwing off the colonial yoke.

Link to telegraph from national archives:




Later - after learning the real nature of post WWII US hegemony he wrote LBJ:

msuweb.montclair.edu...

Please note the respectful tone of the letter while forcefully advancing his point. He was a highly educated and well-rounded person. I do realize that those qualities of character are not in vogue - but I think they are a better measure of character rather then personal opinion.

Originally posted by bjarneorn
reply to post by xuenchen

 

This is the heart of western and modern society.

The idea of multicultural society, is not to unite people ... But to separate nations.

Will you explain "The idea of multicultural society is....."

The objects of that statement cover different scopes (nation vs persons) and therefore is nonsensical. It is this type of hyperbolic 'slogan' speak that actually divides people and nations. The actual content of the statement being illogical naturally upsets most minds.

reply to post by xuenchen


For some reason all the scandals under Obama has turned him into the town idiot, with the culmination of the comments on Zimermman trial.

Originally posted by neo96
IF Ho Chi Min was truly 'inspired' by the founding fathers why did he create a communist state?

And Have another communist state back him?

One of those things is not like the other.

edit on 26-7-2013 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

lol, can you show me a single document written by the elite you refer to as 'founding fathers' that has the word communist in it? No, so how do you assume to know if they would or wouldn't have agreed with a concept that didn't exist in their lifetime. Ho Chi Minh lived in an occupied country, he resolved to be part of the force to allow that country not to be occupied by another - isn't that what the rich European 'founding fathers' were trying to make sure happened in North America?

I know you are raising the communist bit because you just love to find fault with Obama, but maybe it takes a little intelligence and imagination to actually understand the comment which as some have said is after all about diplomacy. Vietnam is one of the emerging Asian economies if you like that or not.

Originally posted by DAVID64
It's getting harder to keep up with the amount of crazy coming out of Obama's mouth. This one tripped the breaker on my Stupid S**tometer

so...if Ho Chi Minh said he was inspired by Thomas Jefferson, way back during the Truman years, and Obama repeated what he said, why is that crazy?....Obama didn't say it, Ho did....Obama repeated it from historical documents that Ho wrote.....

reply to post by FyreByrd


I appreciate that. In fact, you might find it interesting to read about that with the other letters Ho sent out to nations at or around that same time. To relink The Pentagon Papers, the letters are referenced in Part I (1945-1950) across roughly pages A-28 - A-30. In surrounding pages, it also references direct conversations and quotes with Ho and other world leaders/officials around that period. The degree of context added by the full report there is priceless.

History is certainly a source of endless interest vs. the media or 'cultural' version, isn't it?

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by xuenchen

 

For some reason all the scandals under Obama has turned him into the town idiot, with the culmination of the comments on Zimermman trial.

why do you care? you made up your mind along time ago about Obama, there is nothing he could say that you would believe, so why do you bother?

If you call Ho Chi Minh merely a commie dictator, then it seems you don't know why we were in Vietnam or that it had been going on before WW2 ended and that like so many locations around Asia that had been invaded prior to WW2... the Japanese were involved in strange garrison situations with the French. Yes, I realize how strange that sounds and Japan is a complex issue pre and post WW2 and would take a long explanation and many sources. Vietnam was just another Korea. Another Taiwan... or other locations that had been taken from the Chinese that just happened to not go the way the elite planned it... and why? because of People like Ho Chi Minh.

I find it strange that he said this though. It doesn't reflect in his foreign policy.

It seems he would be deliberately setting himself up as a communist sympathizer (which is one thing if it is genuine and an entirely different things if it's a mask)

Something is going to happen and it's largely going to get blamed on this administration.
In turn, if he is portrayed as a communist, then this will seed the fear of communism.

If you want to make a notion sound good, you only get the president to do it in times of prosperity.

In times of struggle, you NEVER get the president to sell an idea unless you are trying to destroy that idea.

I don't know what he's doing with this.

One thing that strikes me strange about Ho is WHY he even asked for help from the U.S. against France in the first place.

Obviously, The U.S. and France were allies and WW2 had just ended.

I think Ho knew that no U.S. 'help' would ever materialize. He HAD to know.

He also knew the same in the 1960's.

Treaties must have existed that prevented any U.S. 'help' in 'freeing' Viet Nam from France. He certainly would have been fully aware of all that.

Perhaps Ho was using this as a set up for the full Communist takeover.

My 'theory' about 'somebody' 'financing' Ho is making some sense.

He was traveling all over the world. On who's dime ? and for what reasons ?

The 'stories' of working 'menial jobs' and then becoming a 'line manager' at a General Motors factory don't add up.
He was moving around too fast.

Ho's 'rags to riches' story may be fabricated.

I say he was heavily financed by somebody who was anticipating the 'Communist' movements becoming reality.

wikipedia;

He led the Việt Minh independence movement from 1941 onward, establishing the communist-ruled Democratic Republic of Vietnam in 1945 and defeating the French Union in 1954 at the battle of Điện Biên Phủ.

Ho knew full well that any 'help' from the U.S. would never happen.

Clever tactics. I'll give him that much.

But he was a commie all the way.

here's another 'Ho Chi Minh' story.....

Ben-gurion Reveals Suggestion of North Vietnam’s Communist Leader

(November 8, 1966) ?

North Vietnam’s Politburo chairman, Ho Chi Minh, suggested to David Ben-Gurion in 1946 that he proclaim a Jewish Government in Exile, and establish such a government’s headquarters in North Vietnam, Mr. Ben-Gurion revealed last night.

Originally posted by xuenchen
One thing that strikes me strange about Ho is WHY he even asked for help from the U.S. against France in the first place.

Obviously, The U.S. and France were allies and WW2 had just ended.

I think Ho knew that no U.S. 'help' would ever materialize. He HAD to know.

He also knew the same in the 1960's.

Treaties must have existed that prevented any U.S. 'help' in 'freeing' Viet Nam from France. He certainly would have been fully aware of all that.

Perhaps Ho was using this as a set up for the full Communist takeover.

My 'theory' about 'somebody' 'financing' Ho is making some sense.

He was traveling all over the world. On who's dime ? and for what reasons ?

The 'stories' of working 'menial jobs' and then becoming a 'line manager' at a General Motors factory don't add up.
He was moving around too fast.

Ho's 'rags to riches' story may be fabricated.

I say he was heavily financed by somebody who was anticipating the 'Communist' movements becoming reality.

wikipedia;

He led the Việt Minh independence movement from 1941 onward, establishing the communist-ruled Democratic Republic of Vietnam in 1945 and defeating the French Union in 1954 at the battle of Điện Biên Phủ.

Ho knew full well that any 'help' from the U.S. would never happen.

Clever tactics. I'll give him that much.

But he was a commie all the way.

edit on Jul-27-2013 by xuenchen because: (no reason given)

In 1940, the Japanese invaded indochina against the communists. They did the same thing in Korea and Hong Kong, Taiwan and other places. Do not ever forget that while they had invaded some of these places, they had treaties with the British. Do not forget that Nationalist leader Chiang Kia Shek trained in a Japanese military academy and studied in Europe and conducted many military endeavors that had Chinese fighting Chinese. Do not forget this because I seriously believe it is an early example of false flag.

Then what did we do to the Japanese? We turned on them with sanctions and they got really mad and attacked us, because they actually had been betrayed. They did a lot of nasty brutal things but had been made promises of non intervention and benefiting from the invasion of Asia. Then after they did what they were set to with evidence of some western backing, we didn't want to play ball with them anymore. We fought them and bombed the crap out of them and pretended to help China because it was Japan who invaded them... so in the 40s why would Ho Chi Minh NOT have thought the US might help?

We tried to free ourselves from European control. This what he respected from the founding fathers.

Unfortunately he did not realize that we have so many in our country loyal to old world money and banking control that all these endeavors were just to get a foot in the door. We positioned ourselves permanently in South Korea and are still there. UK did not give Hong Kong back until 1996. We engaged in a brutal war with Vietnam and had everyone confused as to why we were even there.

What speaks loudest is our actions... not what we pretend to do in the public eye.

AFTER we bombed the crap out of Japan, the french in some cases were cooperating with the Japanese... all to keep control of that area. To do the dirty work and make empty promises of territory control. This is right AFTER a french ally bombed their country.

Then right afterwards we started helping them rebuild and who was the US organization who administered Japan? USCAR. The org that controls car manufacturing and new car technology and is linked to the dept of energy. We made some dirty deals with these people... obviously. There are MANY things that point to this.
...but we made it look like something else. Why, at that time, would Ho Chi Minh not have thought that the US might have helped them after they had been invaded by Japan?

yes, we now know they can't be trusted. Vietnam is proof of the extent they will go to to keep control of the world.

I'm also noticing a huge amount of 'editing' activity on the Ho Chi Minh wikipedia page.

Hmmm.

I wonder who is 'changing' things shortly before and soon after Obama's statements and after any discussions on forums ?

Very suspicious.

I bet somebody was anticipating the 'visit' by Vietnamese President Truong Tan Sang.

Ho Chi Minh: Revision history

Originally posted by xuenchen
I'm also noticing a huge amount of 'editing' activity on the Ho Chi Minh wikipedia page.

Hmmm.

I wonder who is 'changing' things shortly before and soon after Obama's statements and after any discussions on forums ?

Very suspicious.

I bet somebody was anticipating the 'visit' by Vietnamese President Truong Tan Sang.

Ho Chi Minh: Revision history

I wouldn't doubt it and there is no telling.

the US had it's puppets in Vietnam... this fueled an effective rebellion of his leadership.
Maybe they want to make Ho Chi Minh look like one of their guys.

Vietnam is practicing capitalist and it really wouldn't surprised me if they hoped to start more crap there.

They also have territory disputes with China. Maybe they want to use Vietnam much in the way they used Thailand.

Why Vietnam? Why this now? This is strange.

When looking for clues, look at the map (South China Sea)

I just have this feeling that someone is really tiffed at China right now. It looks to me like they are really covering the map when looking for partners. I feel like this could be another sign but I don't know.

That's purely desperate right there. Let them think that will work if they plan to use that as a staging base.

There is bit of something to that though. Going under the communist banner was of convenience in getting assistance to kick out the French. (Which have worn out their welcome by that time.) It's likely they asked around via other channels, but only Russia and China were willing to back up the revolution. (Other countries were likely too tied in with whatever the French were doing financially, and it didn't suit them.)

It wasn't just the French though. In some ways with various family lines, favoritism/exploitation and other stuff, it's much a parallel to what happened in Cuba.

Yet considering how Vietnam repelled China during an attempted land grab in 1979, that not everything was hunky-dory between two communist countries. Despite helping not that long ago, foreigners apparently still weren't welcome if overstepping certain bounds. However the ongoing trade relationship with Russia remained good.

If the U.S. had never become involved, it probably would have been settled at that. Most countries in the region that have been stable without foreign influence would likely have remained fairly stable.

Of course the U.S. is in an alliance with France, so when they called we went in to cover their back. Then stuck around a bit too long because it looked bad getting bloodied up in a fight. (Yet some of that was due to keeping one hand tied because of cold war political tensions.) The McCarthyism Red-scare thing didn't help either.

As far as other countries in the region coming under pressure from Maoist factions? That has a lot to do with action by China when China doesn't get what it wants via diplomatic or economic pressure. It still goes on over there because various disputes over things like opinions on human rights in Tibet, trade and/or smuggling. So what happens is groups that have grievences with their respective countries get financial backing from sources in China. (Not necessarily via the official main govt, but there are generals and such that get strings pulled if it suits them.)

And looking at the current picture, it might not be a bad idea to sweeten the relationship with Vietnam considering the posture of China in the South Pacific. Not to mention that some of those small countries also still have some squabbles, so diplomatically they'd be interested in a third party channel which the U.S. might be good at if we don't screw things up too much otherwise. (Current government is trying to stir up too many pots, but we're still respected as a country in cases where we seem impartial or as a reasonable counter.)

Of course if we open up and put away the past in regards to Vietnam, then we don't have much excuse to keep Cuba embargoed either. Things have changed enough that there's not too much of a point to it. Not sure how that'll play out.

Grabbing land back that had been grabbed by the french... Is that really a land grab? You might think so... but if China knows that despite Vietnam was no success for the west, the west still has enough influence there to influence the economy and still owns land... then they were right.

And now look.

If we establish a presence in Vietnam in light of everything that is going on and are able to do that despite everything that has happened, then the Chinese were right to see something going on there as a threat.

If it's happening right in front of us after they have let the issue sleep for decades, then the Chinese were right.

Vietnam is a geostrategic threat to them, yet they didn't take it when they probably could have.

I bet anything that the population does not share the western sentiments so that makes for an interesting concoction. We should watch this.

I'm not ready to say I know why Obama is taking about Vietnam but it's interesting.

reply to post by xuenchen


Interesting - thanks for the link - I didn't know this. Seems that Ho was looking for supporters for his revolution and our founders did. Inspiration from Jefferson, Franklin and the like perhaps.

reply to post by NotAnAspie


Excellent points - I have just read something about China claiming the entire South China Sea infringing not only on Vietnam but the Phillipines and others. China has and is aggressive about it's 'expansion' into 'traditional Chinese areas (think Tibet).

I tend to think (now please take note that I am an anti-imperalist regardless of political ideology) that US presence in the area could "contain" China on that front as a shooting war between the two is impossible. An economic one would cripple both countries. This is old fashion politicing.