Houston woman says she killed man in self-defense

for some reason after reading through I seem to think the deciding factor will be aggravated murder in how many shots she hit him with. one news report says she shot him 4 times. obviously at some point u shot someone, are they still a threat and you continue to shoot? if there really are 4 bullet holes in this man than to me its murder, but if he was killed by a ricochet off the ground then self defense applies. I don't know why i think this, but it seems we don't have all the facts. Do you have a right to confront someone with a gun making untoward sexual advances?

From what this edit video does show, it seems as though she moves to the man and says a few words as he stand there. That might be a problem for her.

reply to post by nrd101

Do you have a right to confront someone with a gun making untoward sexual advances?

Deadly force can be used to stop sexual assault. Asking for sex probably isn't going to qualify.

This video shows some of the missing footage but not the raw video.

www.khou.com...

reply to post by txinfidel


Still very much edited and ambiguous to my mind. His first 'attack' is still not shown.

She left the scene and the only reason she was identified was that someone got her license plate number.

Rather than calling the police after the perceived threat was neutralized, she got her cell phone and took pictures of the man she had just shot.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out. I live in the region and have possibly been to that store at some point in the past.

reply to post by jadedANDcynical


Yes I know. I found out about this story if I am not mistaken from that article. That was before the story was broadcast on tv. The article itself appears to have been edited. In any case the narrative seems to have changed.

You know the news wont show graphic footage right? So if I am not mistaken instead of showing the graphic footage on their website they had a link to the raw video, I found this article in the history browser of my iPad so when I clicked on the link it must have opened up the youtube app which doesn't save my history so I am having trouble finding it. But if I remember correctly it had live leak stamped in the corner. So the raw video is on youtube somewhere or also on live leak.

I had seen the raw footage already before they re-aired the story on abc 13, but because YouTube doesnt save my history unless Im signed in Im having problems finding the raw footage.

After watching the video with no audio or other facts I see I man and a woman arguing. Man walks off and then comes back where the woman pulls a rifle from the trunk of her car and fires a "warning shot".

You NEVER fire a warning shot in self defense. You are responsible for that projectile when it leaves that weapon. The way I was trained you never pull a weapon unless you are in imminent danger of life or limb or in the defense of another in that situation.

The warning shot is an example of lack of training... If someone else would have been injured... well you can finish that thought for yourself.

Was it justified? Well I don't have any of the facts but based off the video I say it may have been. Leaving the scene however ... Bad Idea.

My thoughts on self-defense.

I believe everyone in High school should take a firearms related self-defense class. Doing so would do more to deter crime and reduce firearms related accidents, as well as a few other things.

In a situation like this, where it could be considered self defense, or close to self defense, and where people's judgements in a dangerous situation being attacked by someone with a knife (which for me would foster eyes bugged out and freaking ASAP), the law should be very very good, supportive and offer couseling. Its a grey area where the woman needs lots of counseling and probably suffers post traumatic shock syndrome afterwards.

If the law betrays the people by fine tuning small details that are out of the scope of many people's ability to problem solve or not react, and throws prison at someone like this, then it is ROGUE and whatever legal language or guidelines are being used need to be overhauled ASAP.

Feel for her. I understand people who do the battered wife syndrome too, for that is actually self defense as well and would never charge them.

reply to post by Unity_99


Thats the way I see it too. In a perfect world she wouldnt have been in that situation but if she was she would have pulled a pistol. However while some people suggest that she fired a warning shot (which she may have) she was at a very close distance. Had she raised the rifle at that distance at that point she could have easily have been disarmed. So, keeping it aimed at his feet was kinda smart, especially if the guy had a knife or long arms but she kept enough distance and the guy wasn't very tall. There was a moment there where I think she may have discharged the weapon where its pointed at his feet. But as I said before, the guy was already a threat and swiped at her with a knife already then did his little froggy dance towards her with the knife. Thats when she grabbed the rifle and that dude should have left at that point.

He deserved to get shot for being a dumbass.

An interesting legal blog states:

Gas Station Shooting Does Not Appear to Be SYG Self-Defense Case

While again urging caution given the nature of the “facts” we’re dealing with, it would seem to me that this case is not a Stand-Your-Ground.

Love that dislcaimer

Anyway, to the meat of the article, the relevant excerpts are:

So, it appears that the elements of the AOJ triad are met, and there existed an otherwise unavoidable threat of death or grave bodily harm against which deadly defensive force was warranted.

Further, there appears to be no time from when the man began confronting her while she was at the pumps that she would have had a safe avenue of retreat available to her. Without a safe avenue of retreat there is no duty to retreat, and if there is no duty to retreat, then Stand-Your-Ground has no place in lifting that non-existent duty.

So, no, this does not appear to be a Stand-Your-Ground case.

The claim is that she did not have a safe avenue of retreat because of his proximity to her. Assuming this to be true, that would make this a standard self defense case.

The whole scenario does, however, get very weird after the fatal shots are fired. Reports are that the woman apparently secured her rifle in the car, finished fueling her car, and took photographs of the dead or dying Daniel. She then simply got in her car and departed the scene, without making any effort to report the matter to authorities.

This is where it can be argued that her actions do not match with one who is in genuine fear. She takes the photograph while the dead or dying man is surrounded by the other people she is supposedly afraid of.

In this case, the prosecutor would argue that a woman who has just had to kill an aggressive and dangerous sexual predator in the middle of a gas station simply does not act as this woman did if she were innocent.

Houston Gas Station Shooting: SYG or not? Break it Down with AOJ

I say again that this case will be interesting to watch for many reasons.

How will it be prosecuted/defended?

Will it receive that same attention that the Zimmerman trial has?

Which of the two will look like which of Obama's relatives?

reply to post by jadedANDcynical

It would have been one thing had she been cornered with no way to escape or if had her pinned on the ground, but she had time to get the rifle from her trunk, menace him with it and fire a "warning shot" into the ground at his feet.

Not a factor. As in Florida, in Texas, you do not have to flee a threat, but can "stand your ground". The guy brought a knife to a gunfight. He's dead. It's simple math. (gun > knife)

To another:

Will it receive that same attention that the Zimmerman trial has?

Of course not.

reply to post by roadgravel

can't view the video so i only have opinion on the chronicle story.
also, i'm not well-versed in TX law but since the story mentions FL, had it happened here, from what i've read and from her own admission ... involuntary manslaughter, without a doubt.

www.chron.com...

McDonald said she fired at the ground, hoping to scare the man off.

"She never intended to shoot directly at him," Quanell said. "She didn't know the bullet actually ricocheted and hit him."

had she shot him "intentionally", i would agree to self-defense given the threat was apparent.
however, no warning shot can or should be interpreted as 'self-defense'.

if you are defending yourself against a real or perceived threat, you end the threat, not send a warning.

since she ran after shooting him, i have to wonder why she didn't run BEFORE shooting the warning shot ?

again, this is a case of "own it now, learn about it later"
she is responsible for her use of said weapon and she broke the law (at least in FL) ... simple.

Still waiting for updates.

Here is an article that attempts to analyze the laws in question using Ability-Opportunity-Jeopardy and Tueller Drill.

His take is that SYG is not even needed as the woman had not safe exit due to the assailant / circumstance. Pure self defense. I have no idea if he is on to something correct with his thought.

Link

reply to post by roadgravel


From the video she wouldn't have been able to raise the barrel and shoot him he was to close it looks as if she fired hoping he would retreat instead he attacked hitting her and knocking her back quite a ways at that point she directly shot him.


That would fall under self defense SYG need not apply. She took pictures to prove he had a knife then left the scene (who knows what those around her were saying she could have felt she would be in danger if she stuck around) I also imagine she was a bit shook up I think most people would be. You can't diagnose shock by how someone is walking or talking always there mental status is what's in shock it has happened to me where I went on auto pilot it seemed but mentally I shut down.

Honestly from the video and witnesses I don't see her being charged with anything.

I would not be surprised if the dude that got shot was being egged on by the other guys didn't didn't seem to concerned about intervening and helping the woman out.

As other posters have stated, she should have fled before it escalated but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do, you know, "keep it real".

Regardless, I hope she gets off and I also hope this a lesson to all the A-holes out there that people are getting fed up with the brazen, and often times glorified, disrespect and douche-baggery. (ie. WSHH).