Utah State Senator wants to end compulsory education

Originally posted by CB328
This is stupid- most parents have to work and don't have time to be professional educators for their kids.

Either he wants all the voters of Utah to be stupid, or, more likely, like a typical republican he doesn't want to pay any taxes.

He didn't say that all parents should home school, only that parents should have a choice regarding the education of their children. A choice, in the sort of school, the hours, and so forth, would be a good thing. As it is, parents mostly have no choice but a failing system, "dumbed down" to the lowest denominator, that simply isn't working. When kids in high school can't even read, there is a HUGE problem. As it is, this is all under the control of the federal government, and it is broken. Local decisions are best, because they know better what is needed right there. there is no "one size fits all" in educational plans.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
Yes, we are returning to home schooling, officially in the new term, but in reality, we are already homeschooling. Just since leaving school at the end of term a week ago, our child has commenced reading books again. One thing that school did give our child is more friends and acquaintances, though she wasn't short of those before school as I have always been concerned with her having lots of time with other people and classes outside the school system.

But, the school she was to go to had a not far of disasterous OFSTED inspection report. We had removed her from school because of lack of learning previously and high level of violence and disruption in the school, so there is no point going back to that situation.

In the end, if a child is not choosing to learn by engaging their own mind and inquisitive nature but is simply spoonfed then memorising without application is not true learning.

So, though I would agree that many parents may FEEL they cannot home school and even lack the will to try, it can be achieved with a learning together attitude and a searching, inquisitive mind on the part of the child.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
[
He didn't say that all parents should home school, only that parents should have a choice regarding the education of their children. A choice, in the sort of school, the hours, and so forth, would be a good thing.

That is disingenuous.

Giving parents a choice of having zero hours schooling (of ANY kind!) is not a good thing.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
Children will always be learning, even if they are not at school.
The essentials are to read and write and of course basic math.
After that, it is an inquisitive mind and books.

Those who are going to be up to mischief, will always be up to mischief even if they have been to school.

A child that wants to learn........WILL learn!

But, we are faced with a pseudo education system. They 'sort of learn'. They then go into terrible debt to 'sort of learn' more. Really, they are training employees. Good in itself....but is it education?

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


This is a good thing.

If parents don't want to send their children to school, is shouldn't be the job of the State to force them.

Plus this is a huge step into the path for Home Schooling, which is big in Utah.

Originally posted by crazyewok
reply to post by benrl

 

Home education is great....as long as the parents are capable.


No point leaving a kid to be home schooled if his parents are illitrate morons or religius nutz.

You will just get another idoit kid then.

Neither is it the business of you or the Govt.

The govt can't even get the mandated form of education right.

I do love reading the opinions of Progressives on this thread, with their statements of "So log as they aren't *add in bias group*".

Originally posted by CB328

we need to restore the expectation that parents are primarily responsible for the educational success of their own children.

This is stupid- most parents have to work and don't have time to be professional educators for their kids.

Either he wants all the voters of Utah to be stupid, or, more likely, like a typical republican he doesn't want to pay any taxes.

Another classy and 'intelligent' response from an 0bama supporter.

Personally, I highly disagree with the decision. If such thing would happen, it would be detrimental to the state. I agree with the public schools being weak, although there is still homeschooling available.

It would contribute far more to the education of the children, when parents had more say in the standards made higher, although ending compulsury education would be the most absurd thing to do.

Come on, people. Parents should not have their say in whether their child gets an education at all. This can seriously ruin a child´s future, if their parents are not supportive in educating the child. Every child needs an education, otherwise the future will be very dark, much darker than it is right now.

Just my counterarguments for several arguments I noticed here.

1) Only basic math, reading and sciences is needed.

To be honest, schools are not about giving one skills for life. They are about teaching one to think. There are many studies showing the advantages of learning advanced math, even when you never need to use integrals or derivatives in real life. For example, math majors beat law school major at LSATs by large. The abstract thinking, analysing skills you get from learning more advanced math are useful to anybody, whatever one does for living. Also in that way a lot of Americans would be even more ignorant as many are right now about what is happening in the world and locally without even knowing how the local system works? . Corporations would get much more power in their hands. Every corporation loves mindless consumers

You can tell pretty easily the education of a person simply by listening to them talking a while. The vocabulary, sentence structures are much more basic compared to more educated ones.

2)

Originally posted by Elliot

 

Children will always be learning, even if they are not at school.
The essentials are to read and write and of course basic math.
After that, it is an inquisitive mind and books.

Those who are going to be up to mischief, will always be up to mischief even if they have been to school.

A child that wants to learn........WILL learn!

Too many parents are working long days, so they do not have much time for their kids, also many are not able to afford a babysitter or a private teacher. Also I doubt many parents have the skills to teach their kids.

Do you seriously believe a child would actually read some book, learn about how the world works when they are home alone? With all the consoles, computers, TV programs etc etc? Every child needs a push. I remember my young nephew, when I used to babysit him every once in a while. He loved learning all kinds of things back then, all kids are like sponges which soak all the information up they hear , although if there was a choice he preferred just playing or watching TV instead. He did not have xbox yet back then. If I wasn´t there to push him learn to read, write, basic math, he would never have done it alone. With all the ADHD and so many more interesting options, most kids would not have the discipline to learn things on their own.




I personally do not support homeschooling or private schools. It is possible to create a very strong public school system. Round here private schools are pretty much pointless. The strongest public schools are nearly impossible to compete with. Currently the strongest private schools rank in the bottom of top 100, out of the 500 schools total in this quite small country. Home schooling is pointless as it would require hiring many different teachers. The requirements are quite high at schools and most people are not able to teach all the end-middle school/high school subjects. There are no voluntary subjects (sometimes there is choice though a´la Spanish or French?) and national math examination is obligatory to everyone, which not very easy to pass, especially for the weaker ones. Failure=graduation one year later (unless extra examination in the summer is passed). To get to university exam is a must, although vocational schools do not require national examinations.

An educated nation is important for every country, ( especially in the nearer future, when many very easy jobs are replaced with computers and/or exported outside the country) unless the goal is to get as many dumb people as possible... America has already too many not-the-brightest people, they do not need any more, which would happen if this would pass.

Originally posted by Elliot
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

Yes, we are returning to home schooling, officially in the new term, but in reality, we are already homeschooling. Just since leaving school at the end of term a week ago, our child has commenced reading books again. One thing that school did give our child is more friends and acquaintances, though she wasn't short of those before school as I have always been concerned with her having lots of time with other people and classes outside the school system.

But, the school she was to go to had a not far of disasterous OFSTED inspection report. We had removed her from school because of lack of learning previously and high level of violence and disruption in the school, so there is no point going back to that situation.

In the end, if a child is not choosing to learn by engaging their own mind and inquisitive nature but is simply spoonfed then memorising without application is not true learning.

So, though I would agree that many parents may FEEL they cannot home school and even lack the will to try, it can be achieved with a learning together attitude and a searching, inquisitive mind on the part of the child.

Glad to hear she's back to a real interest in learning again! Just this past evening, one of mine was listening to a conversation my husband and I were having, on some ancient Mediterranean civilizations. It ended up with a timeline book out, maps, and a globe. Middle of summer, and they still want to learn.

Reading about all the violence in the schools these days, and even horrendous "hazing" of male students (really can't print that here, PM if interested), I am glad we decided to get out of that when we did. The oldest that home schooled is grown now, and never had any trouble with crime, drugs, violent behavior, sexual behavior; none of it. He's a respectful person, helpful, and considerate.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
[
He didn't say that all parents should home school, only that parents should have a choice regarding the education of their children. A choice, in the sort of school, the hours, and so forth, would be a good thing.

That is disingenuous.

Giving parents a choice of having zero hours schooling (of ANY kind!) is not a good thing.

Most parents would not make that choice, and if some did. for whatever reason, it IS their choice. it's their child. The children don't belong to society or the government, nor should they. Considering how bad the public schools are - drugs, violence, sexual assaults, no learning, etc. - it's clear the government handling things is a BAD idea.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
Article

Osmond told the Deseret News that he wants the public to view education as an opportunity rather than a requirement.

"Let’s let them choose it, let’s not force them to do it," Osmond said.

No doubt he wants the great state of Utah to become a powerhouse in the world just like, say, England was around 1500....??

This is what happens when you take a movement like the Tea Party and give them just enough power to where they attempt to force their draconian views upon the very same citizens that they represent.

It's time to fight back and take that power away from such people before they are allowed to damage this country further. If they think that Obamacare and liberal policies are that bad, they are not paying much attention to the elephant in the room.

In other words, they shall sow the destruction of this nation while attempting to, within their own perverted reasoning, protect it from the very things that they revile (liberalism, obamacare, etc).

Originally posted by crazyewok
Guess a population of dumb people are much more easy to surpress.

A population of brainwashed people are even easier.

They don't "educate" us to make us "smart". It's simply a form of training so we will be useful for their system.

A good friend of mine is 42, and I consider him to be one of the wisest people I know. He's only now learning how to read.