12 Things Curiosity Forgot to Inspect & Some Concerns About NASA's Information Policy

reply to post by jeep3r


Nice Post, here's one more for the record!
mars.jpl.nasa.gov...

reply to post by jeep3r


Great thread and I too find the lack of curiosity alarming. I'm not just interested in Archeology and the theory that there could have been an ancient civilization there, but I'm also interested in the geology and how it differs from earth and how it's the same. I think at the least there should have been some more close ups and some "science" done on these and a few more anomalies....not just because they could have been artificial but because they are so interesting. That's what I want to see, and with the amount of time we've spent there, like you said, we should get as much data as we can. Something just doesn't seem right. We have scientists that take more pictures and get more samples from seemingly normal geological formations here on earth, and this is Mars that we're talking about! What gives?

Edit to add: Take anomaly number 2. We've been told what it is, but wouldn't we want 100% proof, which could be had? This is an alien planet, for gods sake! If we found something like that on earth, in a place we were exploring we would pick it up for a sample to inspect it further. You know we would. Why didn't we?

Originally posted by DieSektor
think we are seeing in this photo??

Rocks about 6" large....

Probably is. [rant] "Just rocks" makes me think, though. Isn't it a shame though that beyond the mild speculation here it would take a hundred of us to stand around and photograph one of those rock formations with our mobile phones for there to be a general consensus that it's the truth. Sure, 100 of us norms will be going to Mars in the next ever. They don't put money into that kind of space race anymore. And the fact that that - facebook generation, would require a 1000 shared facebook thread to be accepted as truth. CRINGE

And that we'll then have to wait 50-70 years before one man alone gets to have a look and touch with his hands, and that we'll then clamber onto and deconstruct his or her words and possible covered up thoughts about 'dem rocks for the next 50 years after that cos we'll never know them personally and get the real account, and any info we do end up with will take 27 youtube adverts to watch first courtesy of someone who doesn't even hold the copyright before you can see his one second clip of knowledge that everyone will then assume is fake anyway. And beyond that, probably more bollocks and bull#.

Oh Age of Aquarius. You can't be as near as people say you are if the future of the truth feels that bleak. I think I've been brought up to expect too much.... I should be glad for our children's children's grandchildren...actually wait no I probably shouldn't, they will surely still be lied to by the US Gov [/rant]

reply to post by markymint


A manned mission to Mars could easily occur within 15-20 yrs.

reply to post by amazing


I think it's because scientists don't see any anomalies there. They see features they can identify (you can read about some of them at the Unmanned Spaceflight forum), and like I said, I have never seen a scientist raise an issue with any suspicious feature.

When people here say "it's just rocks", it isn't through lack of curiosity or imagination. It's through confidence that knowlegeable and professional people examine those images as they come, and would alert us to anything out of ordinary. And let's face it, the ATS crowd are hardly geology experts either.

Imagine that Curiosity were directed by the ATS users. It would spend all of its time taking pictures of rocks at various closeups and angles, and hardly get anywhere or do any real science.

Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
reply to post by Silicis n Volvo

 

sorry...that is ridiculous.

I don't know if you noticed somewhat regular features about that "rock". Straight lines...not random looking ?? No?

Than we're done here.

sorry dude. but its a rock

Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
reply to post by Silicis n Volvo

 

sorry...that is ridiculous.

I don't know if you noticed somewhat regular features about that "rock". Straight lines...not random looking ?? No?

Than we're done here.

sorry dude. but its a rock

reply to post by RoScoLaz

because they work for us.

And they gave you the pictures to look at, so where is it they owe you anything more?

Originally posted by jeep3r

Originally posted by jlafleur02

 

Is there any way that a person with the technological know how could intercept the rover transmission?

Here's a link to the NASA/JPL description of the communications.

Looking at the antenna-size, it could be a hardware issue/challenge & I didn't find anything about whether or not certain signals (eg. for imagery) might be encrypted - but I'm clearly not an expert in that area!

I'm pretty sure we have some communication specialists on here who could provide a more detailed answer to your question ...

edit on 15-7-2013 by jeep3r because: text

Where is Snowden when we need him most?
Sorry, I just couldn't resist rs
I hope Obama gets so against the wall up the the point when NASA will be urged to release some bombastic saving news..

Hey jeep3r, a stunning thread you have here!

Whilst I cannot 100% agree with all your claims with regard to the pics you have posted and linked to, there are some that have attracted my attention and intrigue, as they have yours.

If the truth be known, you have only scratched the surface in developing a fully defensible stand-alone theory that can explain what we are seeing and how they came about. For me those questions are vital, yet, sadly we cannot answer with much certainty. Heck, often even hypotheses are dangerous things to throw around when mainstream scientific knowledge cannot explain them. Most people, especially lay-folk, do not have the belief systems, intellect or even patience to hear that the latest research indicates that X, Y, or Z science fiction postulate is actually real and true. The knowledge as to how fantastic technology actually could be - just not yet developed by humans - is enough to make one weep.

Knowing humanity's mainstream backwardness in the face of startling discoveries (such as the ability to create a multiverse of synthetic universes) can lead to loss of confidence in science as few, if any people, are actually aware as to WTF is being researched.

I know that you contend that NASA retains and hides or distorts much photographic data that MSL takes. I would put forward that the photographic data, though often "morphed", adjusted, and edited is amazingly available to the public. I do agree that there is much other data that is not disclosed. For instance, I would like to see ALL data in raw format, that is transmitted by Curiosity to be available. In addition I would like a catalogue of ALL commands sent to the rover at ALL times. There are masses of data (not specifically pictures) that could be made public, but get hived-off to NASA/JPL network of academics and scientists for their own purposes.

MSL should be responsible to Freedom of Information and in such compliance I would like to see a MSL/Curiosity "Data Mirror" established at which all such data could be available. I know, I've been inhaling again, but hey, tax-payer paid-for data, is our data.

End of rant. Excellent thread. Keep it up man.

Originally posted by wildespace
Just being curious, why would learning of alien life lead to a society collapse?

I don't think we will find little green men in the Solar System, but microbial life is quite possible, on Mars, Europa, and some other bodies. I'm sure that many educated / scientifically-minded people believe in possibility of alien life out there, perhaps even in our own Solar System. So it is the average, uneducated "joe", that the governments have to worry about? What would happen if they learnt that there are some microbes on Mars?

edit on 15-7-2013 by wildespace because: (no reason given)

Nah, it's an oft used excuse as to why 'disclosure' hasn't taken place. I'm not sure there has ever been any scientific research into it. It usually fits with the fact that most religions apparently would go into meltdown, again without any factual basis.

Originally posted by Iamnotadoctor
A manned mission to Mars could easily occur within 15-20 yrs.

Elon Musk said that he wants to put a man on Mars in 10-15 years so if we take a mean of 12-13 that means that we should have some news from there in or before 2025. I am one of those people that believes that he can achieve what he sets his mind to and as far as he tells the story his aim is interplanetary human civilization... That is pretty damn exciting and if he changes his mind and takes SpaceX public before he gets a human being on mars i know what i am going to do with the money i made on TSLA.

Cheers,

Stellar

Originally posted by wildespace

 

Just being curious, why would learning of alien life lead to a society collapse?

I don't think we will find little green men in the Solar System, but microbial life is quite possible, on Mars, Europa, and some other bodies. I'm sure that many educated / scientifically-minded people believe in possibility of alien life out there, perhaps even in our own Solar System. So it is the average, uneducated "joe", that the governments have to worry about? What would happen if they learnt that there are some microbes on Mars?

I can't really answer those questions, wildespace, but I probably wouldn't be worried about average joe and progressive societies. I'm not sure, though, what it would take to derail & challenge some of our more traditional belief-systems elsewhere. Would the discovery of microbes perhaps prove the concept of panspermia & indicate that our origins come from somewhere else? Would this suffice to render certain religious doctrines obsolete? Or would this only be true in the case of the discovery of 'intelligent life'? I think there are no easy answers in this regard.

When looking at the more unstable parts of the world, we still find a lot of areas where people are busy solving their own 'local' problems and dealing with survival in daily life. I'm thinking about regions without strong economies or highly organized political & social welfare institutions. Now what is the glue holding these people together? For the most part 'religion'. And in some places it's not even just one religion but several of them and we have learned: people fight for their religous ideas. What happens if we now tell them that a tiny, but 'fundamental' piece of their belief-system is based on flaws? Would somebody accuse us of lying? I'm not saying it will lead to big revolutions ... but a risk is there, and it's unpredictable.

Another thought in this regard is the 'power of information' as such: in the past, we also had to learn the 'hard way' that a single piece of information - in certain circumstances - is sufficient to make us go to war and destabilize entire regions. Perhaps the combination of all these arguments would lead the government and its institutions to rather not change the 'status quo' and, instead, focus on a very slow exploration program. A program that reveals facts over decades rather than months/years so that we can observe reactions and see whether societies around the world can adapt or not ... unless, of course, it has already been decided to conceal the findings altogether (while just processing the 'interesting stuff' internally & confidentially).

Originally posted by Blister

 

MSL should be responsible to Freedom of Information and in such compliance I would like to see a MSL/Curiosity "Data Mirror" established at which all such data could be available. I know, I've been inhaling again, but hey, tax-payer paid-for data, is our data.

End of rant. Excellent thread. Keep it up man.

And a great reply too, Blister! Thanks for some good 'alternative' thinking ...

Although I very much like the idea, I'd say: don't hang your hopes too high with regards to that 'data-mirror' you suggested!

reply to post by Blister


The army is also paid for by the tax-payer, should all their data be subject to Freedom of Information? There are certain things about spaceflight, or technology in general, that shouldn't fall into the wrong hands.

Besides, a lot of Curiosity data is already being released the PDS format: geo.pds.nasa.gov...

www.unmannedspaceflight.com...

reply to post by jeep3r


Hi jeep3r as you know I have replied to your posts and threads before, the problem with these images the examples you have shown and many others is that we have some over zealous NASA haters (they know who they are) amongst our membership that will go to extremes to try and prove something.

Mainly outrageous claims about what they think they see in pictures with quotes like "NATURE can't do that" or images zoomed in to pixel level that artificial straight edges appear because pixels have straight edges etc etc. Then quite often it's the scale of the objects because posters haven't bothered to try and find out what the actual size of the object is many are tiny compared to the objects they are thought/claimed to be.

Quick searches on Google Images can find rocks that are square, cubes, spheres,pyramids,diamond, look like faces etc etc and even very organic looking shapes.

For example



If that was at a distance in a MARS picture it would claimed as a head/face must be artificial, I mean NASA have access to geologists and lets be honest if they found something they would want to prove it for the simple fact that would guarantee a funding increase and a push for a manned mission.

Originally posted by wmd_2008
reply to post by jeep3r

 

Hi jeep3r as you know I have replied to your posts and threads before, the problem with these images the examples you have shown and many others is that we have some over zealous NASA haters (they know who they are) amongst our membership that will go to extremes to try and prove something.

Hey, wmd, your example is stunning - no question. I suppose that's from McMurdo Dry Valley? That would certainly be one of the few places on Earth that have exactly the right conditions to produce complex ventifacts as referred to in the OP.

Let me ask, though: if we found an interesting ventifact on Mars, is there nothing we can learn from it? Now imagine there are several of those in one spot (Glenelg) whereas all of them display different characteristics & shapes - wouldn't that challenge geologists/scientists to find out more about it? Also, couldn't it perhaps just as well reveal something interesting about the geology on Mars like the hundreds of other rocks (which 'were' inspected in great detail)?

It's not against NASA, but their behaviour and information policy appears to be ... well, let's say: 'difficult to comprehend'. For the layman as well as for experts and even geologists as we saw in some replies.

And here's another thing: I also like getting back to image no. 2 in the OP, not because it might resemble a lizard or what have you but rather because it's the only distinct feature clearly sticking out in the whole area (PLUS there's something else slightly behind to the right in the same rock, but something that eroded completely differently. Why isn't all that interesting enough to take a closer look when Curiosity stood right next to it over several weeks? I can't answer that. And just as a reminder: this was their explanation ... !??


And since I can imagine that people sometimes don't like looking into PDF's, here goes NASA's comparison of the feature with a 'similar'(?) formation on Earth:



So would I take a closer look at that? Of course NOT: instead, I'd rather take hundreds of close-ups of other rocks ... rocks that look like, well, just rocks! *irony off*

reply to post by jeep3r


Hi jeep3r I know you are not against NASA that's why I said "they know who they are" also as you pointed out there are locations on Earth with many weird shaped rocks, but if Mar's rocks conform to what's known here on the pale blue dot why waste time looking at them when a hidden gem may be on it's planned route.

To many on here with no real understanding of digital images zoom and zoom and join the dot's of the things they WANT to see and not what is actually there that is the real problem.

Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly

 

This isn't about alien life... It's about anomalies worth investigating...

I couldn't agree more. The thread was mainly aimed at 'how' the exploration at Glenelg was pulled off in general, involving strange behaviour on behalf of NASA/JPL with regards to seemingly interesting things and how they were apparently being ommited in the most systematic manner.

And although I didn't want to address particular rock formations in detail, let me once again get back to image no. 2. When looking at that, I keep asking myself: "What's supposed to be the lesson here?". Perhaps it's this:

If you come across something metallic sticking out of a rock on Mars with a shape reminiscent of a door handle with nothing else like it anywhere around then IGNORE it, publish a PDF on ventifacts, and move on ... !

Apply same argument to all other strange rocks and you're a good scientist ...