Two girls, 11 and 16, sexually assaulted off Brighton beach - UK

Originally posted by LordDerpingtonSmythe

The perception is (right or wrong) that for a long time these segregated communities
have created groups/gangs of pedophiles that have, for various reasons, not been
tackled by either the muslim community or the law. Most of these crimes are never
reported via media.

Indeed - the gang of Rochdale (I think) was known about for a while - the girls were known to be hanging out with the men who were significantly older than them and it was suspected they were up to no good, but Social Services and the Police at first did nothing, because they viewed the girls as lost causes anyway, then were slow to act when they finally did decide to get involved, leading to years of abuse.

Originally posted by stumason
Indeed - the gang of Rochdale (I think) was known about for a while - the girls were known to be hanging out with the men who were significantly older than them and it was suspected they were up to no good, but Social Services and the Police at first did nothing, because they viewed the girls as lost causes anyway, then were slow to act when they finally did decide to get involved, leading to years of abuse.

I have lived within these communities for a long time now.
We locals all have stories of abuse committed in the area by these gangs.
Some of these stories go back 30 years.

This issue is not a new one.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian


You know what, for a second there I thought this was just a thread about some horrible crime that was committed in the UK to innocent girls, one of many 1,000's that occur

Way to marginalize.


Way to Trivialize.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
an important topic people rarely discussed about here, something we can all discuss and agree is a problem.

Way to make it "seem" like you WANT to discuss it.

BTW??? Its been discussed. A simple search would have given you the results.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Found it abit strange that it would be posted here on ATS, but then it became apparent after reading the OP:

No need to quote the rest of the cherry picking nonsense.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Explain to us, please, how this is being swept under the rug?

Its not. Its in the news and we are discussing it, but its swept under the rug in Britain all the time by those "pandering" or "hiding" from the realization that this is a huge problem. Like the Government.

When people such as yourself believe it happens a 1000 times or more, and make it just "another" problem, Rape and sexual assault just becomes some petty crime like spray painting or a car accident.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Should we start banning muslims, Inidans, Arabs, from coming into our countries? Should we start segregating muslims because of the actions of the few? Should muslim, Indian and Arab men start carrying papers now?

The real meat to your post.The real reason WHY you posted.

To imply OP is wanting a gestapo type World, or needs one, because he feels his Country is not doing enough to protect ALL the citizens, including Muslims.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
What is wrong with simply catching these predators and locking them up for life, putting them through the justice system like normal? Treating a crime like a crime? And not like an ideological campaign?

You tell me.

Isn't your whole "Muslim Papers Please" some Ideological "stance" on the OP being someone who hates Muslims under his breath?

Why cant the Law look into the teaching or customs of those who are willing to abuse the system because maybe they believe its right to assault woman? Why cant we put the PC Politics out of the way, instead of placating to certain groups of individuals who clearly are having a giant problem within the UK, Europe, and Around the World?

reply to post by LordDerpingtonSmythe

This issue is not a new one.

Exactly.
It has been glossed over, swept under the carpet and discreetly avoided in an effort to promote the politically correct agenda.

The authorities have serially failed to acknowledge that there is a disproportionate problem within the more rural originated section of the Muslim communities or that these cultural attitudes are exploited by some Imams in an effort to further their own particular interpretation of Islam.

For someone to suggest that this is a racially motivated thread is typical of the attitude that has helped this practice to continue to the extent that it does.

Originally posted by Freeborn


For someone to suggest that this is a racially motivated thread is typical of the attitude that has helped this practice to continue to the extent that it does.

Amen.


I agree totally. We need dialog not finger pointing, or "implying". Also not bringing it to light every time it happens, brings a disservice to those who are raped or assaulted.

Just stopping these vile scum isn't enough.

If any of these acts are even remotely condoned and being marginalized by "the powers that be" due to PC concerns, then this is nothing more than treating the symptoms instead of the root cause.

My 2p

Originally posted by beezzer
Just stopping these vile scum isn't enough.

If any of these acts are even remotely condoned and being marginalized by "the powers that be" due to PC concerns, then this is nothing more than treating the symptoms instead of the root cause.

My 2p

Than how do you suggest we deal with the 'root cause' of the problem?

Deport all muslims?

After looking at the ages of the girls abused, one also has to wonder where in the world were the parents during the whole time?

Originally posted by forklift
After looking at the ages of the girls abused, one also has to wonder where in the world were the parents during the whole time?

If we're talking about the girls from the beach, I don't see what that has to do with anything. It was the hottest day of the year and they were on the beach. I see nothing wrong with allowing your 11 year old, or 16 year old for that matter, to go to the beach on a sunny day. For all we know, the parents may well have been there , but you know what kids are like, they wander off and do their own thing, especially at that age.

If, however, you're talking about the other grooming gangs then they seemed to target girls from troubled backgrounds - they were either in care, or from broken homes, or had behavioural issues - that sort of thing.

Originally posted by forklift

Originally posted by beezzer
Just stopping these vile scum isn't enough.

If any of these acts are even remotely condoned and being marginalized by "the powers that be" due to PC concerns, then this is nothing more than treating the symptoms instead of the root cause.

My 2p

Than how do you suggest we deal with the 'root cause' of the problem?

Deport all muslims?

No. But thanks for inviting a strawman into ATS!

After looking at the ages of the girls abused, one also has to wonder where in the world were the parents during the whole time?

Maybe the girls were dressed too slutty.

Originally posted by forklift


Than how do you suggest we deal with the 'root cause' of the problem?

If I could interject. I would call for those prominent in the community, Leaders of certain groups, Those of the minority and talk to them. If I was a Politician I would definitely have my statistical data ready, and I would try not to offend anyone. There is a problem, and we are looking for solutions.

Originally posted by forklift

Deport all muslims?

Come now. That's not going to happen, even if there is a minority or majority that wants it.

Originally posted by forklift
one also has to wonder where in the world were the parents during the whole time?

You tell me?

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by forklift
After looking at the ages of the girls abused, one also has to wonder where in the world were the parents during the whole time?

If, however, you're talking about the other grooming gangs then they seemed to target girls from troubled backgrounds - they were either in care, or from broken homes, or had behavioural issues - that sort of thing.

In alot of these cases the authorities knew what was cracking off behind the scenes yet they chose to remain blind in order not to look racist. They have allowed these abuses to carry on for well over a decade until they finally decided to put a stop to it collectively. Had this problem been nipped in the bud initially, all of this mess wouldn't have gotten this far.

reply to post by forklift

Than how do you suggest we deal with the 'root cause' of the problem?

I don't think anyone here professes to have all the answers - but acknowledging we have a problem would be a good starting point.

Deport all muslims?

I don't think anyone has suggested anything of the sort.
The only people mentioning deportation etc are those who seem to refuse to accept that we have a problem.

After looking at the ages of the girls abused, one also has to wonder where in the world were the parents during the whole time?

Classic deflection tactics - shift attention away from the perpetrators of these crimes and seek someone else to blame.

Most, or at least many, of these girls were in social care - who knows why?
Were the relative authorities negligent in their duty of care?
Most definitely, and a full enquiry should be instigated to see where they failed, what can be learnt from those failings and how we can ensure they are never repeated.

But these girls were deliberately targeted, groomed and used as sex slaves by groups of adults who exploited them for their own use.
And it is they who must bear the ultimate responsibility.

reply to post by sonnny1

Imams in 500 mosques across Britain will on Friday give the same sermon denouncing the grooming and sexual abuse of children. The co-ordinated effort follows the convictions of Muslim men in British courts for a series of horrific cases. Organisers say it is the first time that so many imams will deliver the same sermon before hundreds of congregations. The sermons will urge people to report those suspected of involvement in sexual abuse offences, and opens with a quotation from the Qur'an which forbids Muslims from "sexual indecency, wickedness and oppression of others".

Guardian

reply to post by forklift


Good on them.

Cant just do it once, and call it a day though.



They also need to get together with elected officials, other community organizers. You cant keep this within your "own" walls. If they do, they make it a easy opportunity for their pundits to criticize the way they handle it.

It also shows that they too realize its a problem for Muslims. No one can say now its not.......

reply to post by sonnny1

Originally posted by sonnny1
cherry picking nonsense.

Speaking of that.

Its in the news and we are discussing it, but its swept under the rug in Britain all the time by those "pandering" or "hiding" from the realization that this is a huge problem.

Not sure what you mean by this. Sexual assault, rape, the mistreatment of woman, is recognized as a huge problem. Your beef appears to be with the fact that muslims, middle easterners and indians aren't being recognized as the specific problem to society. Apparently the rest of us must share your personal issues with people of these groups.

To imply OP is wanting a gestapo type World, or needs one, because he feels his Country is not doing enough to protect ALL the citizens

This is what people like you want. What else is there? You're just too cowardly to admit it. So you post on this board about the horrible muslims and arabs, dance around this idea that there's something wrong with people of this specific ground and you want 'something' to be done to deal with this specific group, but you can't bring yourself to say exactly what.

What do you recommend be done again? Because clearly addressing sexual assault in general isn't something you're interested in. This is a muslim and immigrant problem in your eyes.

Why cant the Law look into the teaching or customs of those who are willing to abuse the system because maybe they believe its right to assault woman?

'Look' into the customs of Muslim communities? And do what? What action must be taken? You clearly want sometime to be done to the Muslim community specifically, and you want this done through law, you just can't seem to bring yourself to tell us what that is on this board. What? Do you want to regulate how they practice their belief? What?

even when caught the law will only give 2-7 years for thiss vile act i have seen rapists only get 3 years .

meaning that some are out in just a year with a tag never see any of them get deported .

most of the time the judge happens to be a beast aswell if you have not been born in the u.k and commit a crime of this nature they should be deported

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Once again, you seem to have a chronic inability to read and comprehend what other people are saying..

You are the one who keeps bringing up Arabs and Indians, when if you had even the slightest inkling as to what the problem is, which I doubt as I do not think you're from the UK, you would know that Arabs and Indians are not the problem - this issue seems to specifically relate to Muslim men who hail from tribal area's of Pakistan and to a lesser extent Bangladesh.

You are the one attempting (poorly) to put words in other people's mouths - specifically trying to paint us all as racists and making out like we want them all deported, banned from entering or otherwise treated like animals. No one has said anything of that sort apart from you.

In fact, what you're doing is not engaging in an adult debate, but merely trolling. Unless you are going to add value to this discussion, or even educate yourself as to what it is we're actually talking about, why not do us a favour and jog on?

reply to post by Southern Guardian


To add, I even said earlier this is exactly like the problems the Catholic Church had and until they addressed the problem themselves, there was little the outside world could do other than simply punish the offenders, but is it not better to not have offenders at all or, if you do, to not have them protected by their peers?

That is what we're discussing - not some attempt to paint all Muslims as bad and have them all shot.

I am American and when I hear the word Asian I think China and such not Indians or Arabs. Are there not laws in your country that address these types of crimes? This is how a world moved from something so simple as do unto others into a over complicated dung heap of laws and regulations that serve nothing but confusion and restricting freedoms. These men committed a sexual offense and your country has laws that protect its people. Their race,religion, or creed is irrelevant. If law enforcement is failing to enforce the laws for what ever reason then please by all means blame the perpetrators.

Originally posted by alldaylong
reply to post by stumason

 

When the "people" who are carrying out this sick crime are finally bought to justice and get sent down, you can be sure they are not given an easy time in prison by other inmates.
That gives me some satisfaction at least.

I wouldn't be too confident about that.

There are an awful lot of Muslim prisoners now; so many in fact that some of our home-grown crims are converting to Islam in stir.

I can't see them treating their own kind too harshly - especially when the victims are white Brits.