Why should we choose Religion over Science?

reply to post by undo

well we know the ice age happened, and there's some really interesting evidence of it, such as the fossils of sea creatures found at very high elevations (of course, it's possible they got there as a result of being sucked up into a storm surge/hurricane, tornado, and deposited there as the contents of the storm precipitated out). a good portion of the northern hemisphere was covered in huge sheets of ice that had to melt.

I would have to look more into this. I need to put myself in the shoes of an archaeologist and learn more about fossils and see if any fossils have been found high up in the mountains. I'm skeptical.

also, the ancient sumerian civilization was found buried under 8 feet of flood silt. this would've been coincident with the black sea flood.

This reminds me of the pyramid like structures from Japan they found under water. I don't know if there was a flood, but some how they were sent to the bottom of the ocean. I doubt there was a global flood. But there could have huge floods or tsunamis that ancient man wrote about. Their stories and tales inspired the many deluge stories.

as regards the creation of the adam. the first verse that mentions adam, does so in a very sneaky way in english translations. it calls him man instead of adam and then goes on to say man was created, male and female, in the images of the gods. the actual hebrew there is adam. so the adam was copied / cloned males and females and the whole lot of them were called adam. adam is a plural word as is elohim.

In Judaism when Adam was created and before he was expelled from Eden. He was simply called "the man" or "man." I believe Eve was just called "woman." when they were expelled they were given their names. Adam has a number of meanings. I think Adam was used because Adam was cursed to work the Earth for food and what not. Adam can mean "Earth" or "ground."

The part of cloning reminds me of UFO/alien groups who see religions (Christianity, Islam, Hinduism) were inspired by aliens and would interpret the stories as alines having their signs in the stories.

Also doesn't elohim mean leaders or at least god or gods?

Everything else is interesting, But I'm still skeptical of your views.

Originally posted by danielsil18
Both can't coexist though.
Religion and Science don't agree with each other.

No they don't. Spiritual discussions address the etherial ... that which science can't measure (yet).
That doesn't mean they disagree or that the spiritual doesn't exist. It just means science hasn't
gotten to the point that it can measure or observe it correctly.

"Science without Religion Is Lame, Religion without Science Is Blind" - Albert Einstein

Originally posted by Phoenix267
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

And I like the subtle wording choices you decided to employ. But seriously, I have no less that 50 books from Conservative Christian scientists in just about every field from microbiology to astrophysics and I don't see any problems reconciling science with theology. I say theology and not religion because theology is the study of God, religion is just man-made attempts to reconcile oneself to a deity of some kind.

We all come from different walks of life. I took the definitions from Wikipedia and to me I feel it takes a lot to be a person who has faith in God and their beliefs and then to accept science and secular views. To me it's like you're trying to follow ideas that are contradictory. Hopefully this makes sense!

No it doesn't at all actually, that's just rampant stereotype and myth. You could check out some Christian scientist's books and reports. Did you know Newton predicted one day man would fly in crafts from a prophecy in the OT and was mocked by his peers?

reply to post by undo


It doesn't say he took 32 animals in the Bible, I would reread that portion of the text.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

No it doesn't at all actually, that's just rampant stereotype and myth. You could check out some Christian scientist's books and reports. Did you know Newton predicted one day man would fly in crafts from a prophecy in the OT and was mocked by his peers?

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't know much about Newton, but I'm skeptical about what you're saying about him. Leonardo da Vinci did have great ideas and I believed he design a great prototype of a flying vehicle. To me that is innovation. Please share the information of Newton and prophecy.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by undo

 

It doesn't say he took 32 animals in the Bible, I would reread that portion of the text.

7 clean animals in pairs
7 birds in pairs
2 unclean animals in pairs
---------------------------------
14+14+4=32

Originally posted by Phoenix267
reply to post by borntowatch

 

Wow so many here have such a religious faith in science.

You're the perfect example of a person with faith. That's not wrong, but to me your views are not influenced by rational though.

Nobody knows how old the earth is, they are at best guesses. Nobody fully understands evolution and can categorically prove it.

A good way to check the age of the Earth is through radioactive testing of meteorites. This is a quick check from Wikipedia.

Source
Source 2

Also evolution is proven science. In science a theory has a completely different meaning then the English definition. In science a scientific theory is an explanation of of the natural world, based on a body of knowledge confirmed through observation and experiment.

Source

Yes, I do accept evolution and I do disagree with your views. But I do accept that you can have faith in God. I'm just skeptical and see them differently.

Your views are influenced by dated science.

How old is the geological time scale. Its one of the oldest dated theories in science with NO evidence (sorry about the capitals...but)

Radioactive testing of meteorites, come on? Seriously?
How do you know they are in a constant environment, how do you know the earth was a constant enviroment..


Wikipedia, again seriously wikepedia. Look wikipedia is good but there are many questions unanswered.
You have to explain abiogenesis before accepting evolution.
Abiogenesis is the foundation evolution stands on.
Its a theory with no support, sorry.

You're the perfect example of a person with faith. That's not wrong, but to me your views are not influenced by rational thought.

God bless, enjoy your faith, I respect your opinion and belief, hope you study both sides of the argument and accept other views with out the typical arrogance and fundamentalism shown by most atheists.....and Christians re this subject

Good onya

Originally posted by undo

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by undo

 

It doesn't say he took 32 animals in the Bible, I would reread that portion of the text.

7 clean animals in pairs
7 birds in pairs
2 unclean animals in pairs
---------------------------------
14+14+4=32

How about a bible quote, not your imagination.

I am seriously interested in that, so seriously

What version of the bible do you read.

Genesis
But I will establish my covenant with you, and you will enter the ark—you and your sons and your wife and your sons’ wives with you. 19 You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. 20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. 21 You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them.”

22 Noah did everything just as God commanded him.

7 The Lord then said to Noah, “Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation. 2 Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and one pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven pairs of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth. 4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made.”

Who's to say we should choose religion over science? Religion was created to answer questions of creation and why man exists. I would compare it to Greek Mythology.

reply to post by borntowatch


You're witty! I like that. Anyhow I haven't looked into anything relating to religion or science. Wikipedia is an easy source to go to quickly. About the age of the Earth, abiogensis, evolution I'll to research again to express why I accept my views.

I have created a thread about evolution before, but I haven't studied evolution in months. Even though I know we both disagree on many things. Hopefully we can both influence our opinions on the subject. We have to have faith in something.

i'm developing a hypothesis that the pentateuch (first five books of the bible) written PRIMARILY by moses, was written in layers. one layer pertained to information only the priesthood was privy to understanding and the other layer was for the wider audience. the priesthood layer, as i'm coming to think of it, contained a great deal of scientific information, not on the scale that we see science now, but more along the lines of historical science -- a recounting of biological, geological and astronomical events and how these events impacted and shaped the world they saw back then. i get the sense that to them, science was sacred, holy even, in fact, so much so, that they hoarded the data and only gave out the bare minimum of explanations in the form of highly condensed accounts.

you might enjoy this

reply to post by borntowatch


correct. that's 2 different accounts. one is 2 of every animal, and the other is 32 animals.

reply to post by undo


I wonder how God commanded Noah to put various animals (clean and not clean) into the ark. As a way to say the majority animals were kosher animals.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by borntowatch

 

correct. that's 2 different accounts. one is 2 of every animal, and the other is 32 animals.

Two different accounts
To the wife
I went to the shops love and got some bread

Then to some one else.
Yeah just got back from the shops with a carton of beer, smokes and some stuff for the missus.

same story different details.

You need to quote scripture, your word is invalid less you can justify it
Thanks

Originally posted by Phoenix267
reply to post by undo

 

I wonder how God commanded Noah to put various animals (clean and not clean) into the ark. As a way to say the majority animals were kosher animals.

well as i indicated in my initial post on the subject of the flood account, i am not sure where noah's account ends and the other account begins. the two stories have been melded together in such a way that the only way you can prise them apart is by comparing the parts that disagree with each other, such as all the animals, vs. 32 animals.

if we take into account that the genealogies of the descendants of noah form a historical timeline, it's likely that the black sea flood was noah's flood and the other flood account (the global one related to the ice age) is a different account, that has been attributed to noah. one account explains the events of the near past, to the mesopotamians, egyptians and caucasians. the other, explains events that impacted the entire globe, something that men of the cloth were not thought to be privy to, so long ago.

Originally posted by borntowatch

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by borntowatch

 

correct. that's 2 different accounts. one is 2 of every animal, and the other is 32 animals.

Two different accounts
To the wife
I went to the shops love and got some bread

Then to some one else.
Yeah just got back from the shops with a carton of beer, smokes and some stuff for the missus.

same story different details.

You need to quote scripture, your word is invalid less you can justify it
Thanks

you just justified it for me, by quoting both relevant passages.

next up is the information on the black sea flood, and it is quite likely to be the same as the flood of noah. what i found fascinating about this research was that the geologists had already determined that the mediterranean sea had been a dry valley on more than one occassion and had flooded, more than once. at one point in history, the nile river (which runs south to north and dumps into the mediterranean) would've been a waterfall down into the mediterranean (sea) valley. bet it was beautiful. this video is in 5 parts. i've provided the first part as a watchable video, the rest are links directly to youtube where the videos are located.



part 2
www.youtube.com...

part 3
www.youtube.com...

part 4
www.youtube.com...

part 5
www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by Phoenix267
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

No it doesn't at all actually, that's just rampant stereotype and myth. You could check out some Christian scientist's books and reports. Did you know Newton predicted one day man would fly in crafts from a prophecy in the OT and was mocked by his peers?

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't know much about Newton, but I'm skeptical about what you're saying about him. Leonardo da Vinci did have great ideas and I believed he design a great prototype of a flying vehicle. To me that is innovation. Please share the information of Newton and prophecy.

That's irrational don't you think? You admit to not knowing much about him so on what objective basis do you have to be skeptical?

Originally posted by Phoenix267
reply to post by undo

 

I wonder how God commanded Noah to put various animals (clean and not clean) into the ark. As a way to say the majority animals were kosher animals.

There was no such a thing as "kosher" back then. Kosher didn't come till after Abraham.

reply to post by DeadSeraph

I'm sorry but that is a very narrow minded view. Any Christian who espouses the statements you've made obviously doesn't understand the importance of not placing limits on what God is capable of.

Well I do agree that we shouldn't place limits on the limitless, but the Torah was written by Moses so, his account is all we have to go by and Moses didn't say anything about us evolving from chickens, monkeys or alligators.