You Are A Slave!

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I think k at this point you should look up the terms "complete" and " subservient", then readdress my last post again.

who said that it always have to be complete?
You did that before you got the ability to reason and now you have woven a cover of reasons over unverified ideas and started believe them as your own and so don't feel subservient.
The best(worst) slavery is when the enslaved deludes himself/herself as free!
If you feel obliged to follow patterns set by the society then you are a slave.

Look, I won't follow you down backpedal alley. You said number 2 in the definitions for slavery fit perfectly.

It sure does not.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by logical7

 

Also if you think you are worthy of being a friend of God like Abraham pbuh then you should be ready to go through hardships and tests as he went and obeyed God even to the extent of being ready to sacrifice his son.

I sacrifice my own body. That is what a christian is, we are living sacrifices to the Lord. I've been through my share of hardships and still give glory to the Lord. I am a living testament of his power, love and mercy. I live in a dessicated and diseased body and although I once counted it as a curse, I now see it was a blessing.

Forgot to mention we are in the new covenant. Jesus said He no longer calls us servants, but friends.

That's kinda what I was pointing at in John 15 from above.

reply to post by logical7

If we are supposed to be slaves of something then why not be slaves of our Creator?

Who?
What?
Nope. Not a slave. You can choose to be, if you want to. I won't.

I've never met 'our Creator.' EDIT: ...IN THIS LIFETIME.
I refuse to trust someone I've never met.
You've never met 'our Creator', either. Not in this lifetime. Or, you'd get it better (the idea, that is).....
WE ARE ALL ONE.

reply to post by logical7

Originally posted by logical7

i don't know. Its possible but i cannot include it as a fact because then all unseen/unknown claims have to be taken as facts. People have seen hell etc in NDEs. So do you believe in Hell?
There is justification available to try and proof many beliefs, i am making a statement based on what can be observed and that still stands.

Well it is "Unseen/known" that there is a creator and that there is only one create. I was assuming that if you would be making such claims you wouldn't have a problem with other "unseen and unknown" experiences.

Originally posted by logical7
There is just One Creator.

How do you know this?

Originally posted by logical7
If we are going to base our behaviour on certain influences then wouldn't it be best to base it on someone who is All Knowing?(provided that we have that guidance ofcourse)
.

How does this creator is "All knowing"? It's impossible to know that you know everything. You can never know if there is something beyond you that is unknown.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by mideast
God has granted us the freedom to choose.

Huh? Either you are free or you aren't. You can't say someone GAVE me the freedom (but still owns me). It doesn't make sense. Either you are a slave to some god, or you are a free man able to make your own choices. Can't have it both ways.

edit on 7/5/2013 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

Being is god or is not god.

we are not god , we are not as powerful as he is and that is enough strong to prove that we must be slaves.

But looking at facts , we have been granted much freedom that we can claim that we are not slaves and we are free.

reply to post by mideast


You are calling it a "FACT" that we have "BEEN GRANTED" Freedom.

How do YOU know that freedom was GRANTED?

How do you know it's not just the nature of reality (until aggressive people come along to control)?

reply to post by mideast


You are calling it a "FACT" that we have "BEEN GRANTED" Freedom.

But saying "GRANTED" assuming that there is some intelligent force "Giving" it.

It is still NOT a fact that such a aggressive "God" exists, in fact, quite the opposite. Nature IS freedom and Freedom IS nature. Without someone controlling you, you are free to act on your own will rather than the will of another person.

Originally posted by opethPA
Please tell me in some proven scientific manner , not some new agey philosophy , the alternate choice to being born as a child . You can't make choices as a newborn because we don't have the capacity to choose at that age. If this makes us slaves, so be it but better to come into this world a slave and have a chance to live life the way you want vs never being born.

Actually in reading your OP a few times again I see this is a religious themed post so I will stay out.. I am personally not a religious person but that doesn't make my thoughts correct for anyone else. I try and stay out of all religious threads here as people just push whatever agenda they have be it pro or against.

At least you acknowledge that we are born as slaves and there is no other way.
Yes my thread has a religious theme. The name of the section should give a hint.
Anyways thanks for contributing

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by logical7

 

Also if you think you are worthy of being a friend of God like Abraham pbuh then you should be ready to go through hardships and tests as he went and obeyed God even to the extent of being ready to sacrifice his son.

I sacrifice my own body. That is what a christian is, we are living sacrifices to the Lord. I've been through my share of hardships and still give glory to the Lord. I am a living testament of his power, love and mercy. I live in a dessicated and diseased body and although I once counted it as a curse, I now see it was a blessing.

i am sorry about you condition.
i however don't agree to your idea of what a christian is. Yes Christ taught that but i see that christians want to clinge to the alleged sacrifice of Jesus pbuh and not carry their own crosses.
You are not sacrificing you body. You are being patient with what you are suffering and thats good.
submitting to the Will of God like Jesus pbuh did.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Forgot to mention we are in the new covenant. Jesus said He no longer calls us servants, but friends.

thats your belief.
Jesus pbuh can be my friend and i will ofcourse not be his servant as he is not god. I will obey/follow him because the teachings he gave came from God.

Btw just curious, can you show me where Jesus pbuh said that?

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Look, I won't follow you down backpedal alley. You said number 2 in the definitions for slavery fit perfectly. It sure does not.

its you who is making a debate over the exact meaning of words, it would be good if you stick to the topic.
I don't want a debate for the sake of a debate, try bringing a better arguement and i'l respond.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Black's Law Dictionary 5th, 1st.

Slave. A person who is wholly subject to the will of another; one who has no freedom of action, but whose person and services are wholly under the control of another. One who is under the power of a master, and who belongs to him; so that the master may sell and dispose of his person, of his industry, and of his labor, without his being able to do anything, have anything, or acquire anything, but what must belong to his master. The 13th Amendment
abolished slavery.

SLAVERY. The condition of a slave; that civil relation in which one has absolute power over the life, fortune. and liberty of another.

It is difficult to expand on this subject completely. And His-story, plays a significant part.
So to all the bots, idiots, incompotents, and wards, please don't waste your time.
But for those who know that something is up and can't quite put there finger on it,
let me set the record straight,

Your Birth Certificate is an instrument.
it is the governing instrument in all cases to which the united states and the state are party to.
it is also a record showing the organization to have been organized.
the legal name of this registered organization is your all cap name.
when you use the birth certificate for an "operators" license, you become the registered agent for that entity.
which holds you as liable for service of process.
Your "residence" is actually your registered office where you "operate" the "agency".

Your BC is also evidence of a bill of lading.
you are considered the Commercial and industrial machinery and equipment, the human capital which backs the Currency, there is no money.

Your government sold you and your labor, and your children into slavery to the international bankers


Whether you like it or not, according to their law you are a slave(agent).
everything you own is in the organizations name, not yours.
they control your economy, your privledges, your movement, and your entire education(indoctrination).

discuss?

reply to post by arpgme

Well it is "Unseen/known" that there is a creator and that there is only one create. I was assuming that if you would be making such claims you wouldn't have a problem with other "unseen and unknown" experiences.

The reality of "Creator" can be reached by reasoning, yes its "Unseen" but its simple enough to reason.
If you find a beautiful woven sweater in a pile of loose woolen threads, you will ask "who MADE it?"
not assume that the threads got tangled and created a sweater.
The one who made the sweater should "know" weaving.
Similarly the One who made the Universe should know All Knowlege in the Universe. A creation is an expression of the knowledge/talent of the creator/artist. Thats how you get the "All knowing" Creator.
The Creator being One is simple. The Creator is not a material entity, can't even know if its a being etc but what can be known is there's One Will by observing the harmony/perfection in the Universe. As by observing beings with a free will(humans), we do know that multiple free wills only lead to disharmony.
So we have an All knowing One Creator(Will).

reply to post by 7Thunders


hey Thunders!
Nice explanation of what slavery is and the other part also supports the OP in some way but how about making your own thread if you want to discuss a topic?

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Forgot to mention we are in the new covenant. Jesus said He no longer calls us servants, but friends.

thats your belief.
Jesus pbuh can be my friend and i will ofcourse not be his servant as he is not god. I will obey/follow him because the teachings he gave came from God.

Btw just curious, can you show me where Jesus pbuh said that?

It's my belief because that's what Jesus said. His disciples recorded it in their historical narrative of His life and death. Sure I can tell you, John chapter 15.

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Look, I won't follow you down backpedal alley. You said number 2 in the definitions for slavery fit perfectly. It sure does not.

its you who is making a debate over the exact meaning of words, it would be good if you stick to the topic.
I don't want a debate for the sake of a debate, try bringing a better arguement and i'l respond.

I've done all I can do. In life you can explain things to people but you can never understand things for people. We all do not match definition #2 from page 1.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Forgot to mention we are in the new covenant. Jesus said He no longer calls us servants, but friends.

thats your belief.
Jesus pbuh can be my friend and i will ofcourse not be his servant as he is not god. I will obey/follow him because the teachings he gave came from God.

Btw just curious, can you show me where Jesus pbuh said that?

It's my belief because that's what Jesus said. His disciples recorded it in their historical narrative of His life and death. Sure I can tell you, John chapter 15.

ok i read the chapter.

14 You are my friends if you do what I command.
15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not
know his master’s business. Instead,I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.
16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that
you might go and bear fruit—fruit
that will last—and so that whatever
you ask in my name the Father will
give you.
17 This is my command: Love each other.

what i see is a conditional friendship.
He did not call them servants because he told them everything that he learnt from God and so now they are on equal footing, friends.

Does my previous reply say exactly this? I will follow his teachings as they came from God and i can consider him my friend.
His friendship however is conditional and only for ones who follow/obey his command. A command from God that he relayed.
If you show love to me as a fellow human, a brother even when you personally dislike/hate me then you are obeying Jesus' (pbuh) teaching over your own feelings then you are his friend and thats what is called submission.
I love you brother for the sake of God. Thats what prophet Muhammad pbuh taught.

reply to post by logical7


It's not conditional. We as children had responsibilities and commands from out parents too. Didn't change our relationship to them or their love for us. Besides, it's hard not to have agape love towards fellow man when the Spirit of God resides within.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by logical7

 

It's not conditional. We as children had responsibilities and commands from out parents too. Didn't change our relationship to them or their love for us. Besides, it's hard not to have agape love towards fellow man when the Spirit of God resides within.

its conditional from our side. We cannot claim to be friends of Jesus pbuh if we do not do what he asked us to do. Right?
It feels a bit arrogant to me when anyone claims to have the Spirit of God. If the Spirit of God is there, it should bring out humility.
God knows the hearts and that should be enough.

reply to post by logical7


I would say you make God seem an oppressor. I am not a slave, but a servant.

If I chose to see myself as a slave of God I would not feel a good relationship with my Father.

Does this way of believing not oppress the soul? I like zeal, "I am the herald of the great King!" - St. Francis of Assisi