The Metaphysics of Language

reply to post by Kashai

That is my opinion and the fact you have a problem with that is an indication of a obsessive/compulsive disorder.

This is very interesting. It seems that it is you who have a problem with my opinion. Who are you diagnosing but yourself?

Look. If you don't like what I say, don't read it, don't participate in my threads. It's that easy. My words aren't for you. Why waste your time?

You seem hell-bent on painting me with your brush. I say have at it. But because I know you lie, and attempt to deceive my fellow posters by saying I am crazed, obsessive compulsive and delusional, when you have never met me in your life, shows that you are unfit for philosophical discussion.

No, you are not a friend. No, you are only concerned with your own welfare and yourself. I have lost all respect for anything you have and will say, and from this point, I can no longer waste my time on a single letter of yours.

reply to post by Astrocyte

Awareness is the same thing. Thought experiment: Are you reading this? HOW are you reading this? Isn't awareness the 'glue' that brings you - lesmiserables - to the understanding of the words you read?

I am reading this with my eyes. And no, awareness isn't the glue that brings me to the understanding.

Show me this glue. Can you?

reply to post by Astrocyte

LesMiserables: this position IS absurd. I don't think it puts you on the "edge of insanity", since you seem to be in control of yourself. Nevertheless, it is a very rickety footing to be establishing yourself.

If awareness doesn't exist - and awareness is a basic, fundamental property of being conscious, what are you doing right now? How can you shift from one thought to another? When you corrected Kashai before about internet etiquette, didn't you have the awareness to discern the wrongness of his position?

There seems to be a borderline disjunction in your thinking. Your using awareness to syllogize, yet denying that awareness exists through the very medium of awareness.

I'm puzzled by how someone usually so intelligent could not notice the absurdity of that

Because all you can do is assert. You can only say it is there. Why should I believe you? You have offered nothing convincing at all.

Please, continue slandering me if it helps get your point across. But that doesn't change the fact that you cannot, and nor can anyone else, explain this awareness you call objective and fundamental.

Originally posted by Kashai


As I have explained human behavior is non-random and in relation to a quantum environment. That would constitute a deviation from a materialistic standard.

Given human experience are based upon internal representations which, they in fact are, makes your point is mute.

You assume that reality is effectively flat without any empirical evidence and that essentially describes and extremist.

Any thoughts?

Makes my point "mute"... LOL! What, pray tell, does that even mean? You can't hear it?
That is not especially important to me. I would probably care more about those you guys are trying to manipulate through this dick measuring contest.

Human experience is based both on internal representations and external objects, in my view. It is a constant process of synthesis and interaction of the two.

I do not assume reality is "flat" and further attempts to attribute ideas to me that I did not say, nor mean, are continuation of covert manipulation. I am perfectly capable of speaking for myself. But I thank you for again, illustrating so well my original assertion.

An extremist, in my view, is one that either tries to go to one extreme or another- eliminate and cease to recognize objective exterior reality, or internal subjective reality. I recognize both and so do not consider myself an "extremist".

reply to post by ImaFungi

You were telling others awareness didnt exist. If you are aware, in some sense, awareness exists.

If I am aware, awareness exists? It seems you have only proven that I exist.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

Notice that what you are is always present - awareness of what is happening is now.
A thought may arise but it has to arise in what you are. A thought arising is noticed - what is it that notices the arising thought?
The thought (word) may say 'tomorrow' or 'another time' but it can only say it now and can only be noticed now.
'Another time' is only ever a thought arising presently.
Words appear in awareness, colours appear in awareness, sound appears in awareness. And awareness is ever present.

You mentioned "Awareness is prior to anything you think about yourself or life or even about the awareness itself". If thoughts arise presently, how is it possible that awareness is prior?

reply to post by Bluesma


The relationship between the common senses and the brain make apparent we are only capable of internal representations.

Unless of course we are capable beyond that and when it comes to physics and therefore reality it is obvious.

Your point is irrelevant as is LMs as it is obvious the non-random actions of human beings go beyond there physicality.

This matter is related to mechanics of our actions and activity and my advise to you is to pick up a book

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
You mentioned "Awareness is prior to anything you think about yourself or life or even about the awareness itself". If thoughts arise presently, how is it possible that awareness is prior?

Are you aware of the noise around you now? Listen to the sounds, just hear the noise in the environment.
Now direct the attention to your next thought - see if you can catch it arising, watch to see where it appears.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


In my opinion your whole comment is an effort to rationalize your position which, is in my opinion a bunch of baloney.

By the way I already made that clear

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope

If I am aware, awareness exists?

I would say so. What would you say?

It seems you have only proven that I exist.

Ok you exist. I can try to prove to you a rock exists. And then I can try to prove that one difference between you and a rock, is certain abilities you are capable of that depend on you having knowledge/understanding/awareness of your existence and being, and your being able to control your body. If you were unaware of being, unaware of being an entity,dependent on certain things, with a body depending on you controlling it to get certain things, Then in a sense we could say you were not aware, perhaps we can say a person in a coma is not aware of the activity going on around him, while I am right now aware of the activity going on around me.

There are many actions and mechanisms at work at all times that allow me to be aware of the activity going on around me, and this interaction between the mechanisms of my body and the events of the external world, supply me with a stream of knowing/viewing/sensing/awareness. So 'awareness' the word, would be a term used to point at, or define, this experience, of mechanism catching and processing information, that we can view, store, and use. We ourselves I guess would be the totality of our being. Every thought weve ever had in some sense is related to our being, but a lot of those thoughts may not have been necessary for our existence, like a heart may be necessary for our existence, or the interplay of awareness being necessary for our existence. I dont know the significance of objectively notifying that our thoughts are attached to us even in a minimal way.

A cat may not know anything of words, definitions, introspection, or awareness of its awareness being aware of its awareness, but I would say a cat is 'aware', because I have seen a cat react complexly and spontaneously to its environment. Most everything in the material world can be predicted, because they dont contain a factor of internal awareness, which bends the laws of physics and predictability by giving a section of material the power of choice.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

Are you aware of the noise around you now? Listen to the sounds, just hear the noise in the environment.
Now direct the attention to your next thought - see if you can catch it arising, watch to see where it appears.

It appears within me.

reply to post by ImaFungi

If I am aware, awareness exists?

I would say so. What would you say?

I would say I exist. And that I am aware. "Aware" is an adjective, a descriptive word. Therefore, when you say I am aware, you are merely describing me.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Are you aware of the noise around you now? Listen to the sounds, just hear the noise in the environment.
Now direct the attention to your next thought - see if you can catch it arising, watch to see where it appears.

It appears within me.

It all appears within you - yes, yes.
All arises (appears and disappears) in what you are - ever present awareness.
All concepts appear in the non conceptual always presently - there is nothing separate to what you are.
There is only presence awareness.

reply to post by Kashai


I read almost constantly, and if what I choose to read is not that which supports your particular perception and thought, that is just... well. Life.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Are you aware of the noise around you now? Listen to the sounds, just hear the noise in the environment.
Now direct the attention to your next thought - see if you can catch it arising, watch to see where it appears.

It appears within me.

The problem with such a response is that you are an admitted Materialist, in which case you place no value upon any experience "within you".

Originally posted by Bluesma
reply to post by Kashai

 

I read almost constantly, and if what I choose to read is not that which supports your particular perception and thought, that is just... well. Life.

Petty much I feel there is more to us than experiencing internal representation's.

I bug LM because he is apparently a man and I feel he can handle himself.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

It all appears within you - yes, yes.
All arises (appears and disappears) in what you are - ever present awareness.
All concepts appears in the non conceptual always presently - there is nothing separate to what you are.
There is only presence awareness.

If I am awareness, and you've been calling me awareness this whole time, then our philosophies are one in the same, but with different words. Scary thought, itsnowagain, but I've known this all along.

Will you admit to this?

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

It all appears within you - yes, yes.
All arises (appears and disappears) in what you are - ever present awareness.
All concepts appears in the non conceptual always presently - there is nothing separate to what you are.
There is only presence awareness.

If I am awareness, and you've been calling me awareness this whole time, then our philosophies are one in the same, but with different words. Scary thought, itsnowagain, but I've known this all along.

Will you admit to this?

Admit to knowing you were playing a game all along?

Originally posted by Kashai

Petty much I feel there is more to us than experiencing internal representation's.

I bug LM because he is apparently a man and I feel he can handle himself.

I will agree with you on that. I do not see him as needing defending.

As I said, I think, in terms of the observers (which is akin to an audience in such a group) , when there are players who are using dirty tactics in a debate such as ad hominem and twisting of meaning to manipulate the observers perceptions,
it is valuable to have another on the sidelines which untangles and calls them out.

Originally posted by Bluesma

Originally posted by Kashai

Petty much I feel there is more to us than experiencing internal representation's.

I bug LM because he is apparently a man and I feel he can handle himself.

I will agree with you on that. I do not see him as needing defending.

As I said, I think, in terms of the observers (which is akin to an audience in such a group) , when there are players who are using dirty tactics in a debate such as ad hominem and twisting of meaning to manipulate the observers perceptions,
it is valuable to have another on the sidelines which untangles and calls them out.

Maybe it is not clear as to who the biggest game player is.