Amnesty International weighs in on Snowden

Originally posted by Daedalus
all this guy did was release a few documents, proving our government is no longer acting in the best interests of we the people...he's not killed or injured anyone....

No that's not all he did. And we have no idea how the assets in the field have been compromised (aka 'killed') because of the information he has released to China and Russia. How about waiting until the dust settles before calling this fella a hero. It's premature.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Heliophant
Who says he's told anybody anything other than what he's released via the press?

Really?

China acknowledges that Snowden has told them about how the USA hacks into China .. it's government, it's universities, it's military, ... how it's done .... all of it. And China and Russia both have had Snowden with all his download secrets and knowledge for weeks. You don't think they've squeezed the information from him? What ... you think they are just offering him tea and cookies and a warm bed to sleep in? You really don't think that this is Snowden aiding foreign powers against the USA?

Besides, you think China and Russia were surprised by all this?

Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if it was planned by Snowden AND China all along.
I'd bet a box of donuts Snowden didn't just stumble upon information and decide to out it.
I'd bet that he targeted the job and position and made arrangements ahead of time with China.
I can't prove that, of course. Not yet anyways ...

and you probably won't ever be able to prove it, because it sounds like complete bulls**t...

so he told them how U.S. intelligence was hacking into their stuff....i don't see an issue with this. U.S. Intelligence has no business hacking into the systems of a sovereign nation....

and do we have proof that he even did that much? unless he's admitted to it, then it could be bunk.

as to the rest of your speculation, just stop....

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Daedalus
all this guy did was release a few documents, proving our government is no longer acting in the best interests of we the people...he's not killed or injured anyone....

No that's not all he did. And we have no idea how the assets in the field have been compromised (aka 'killed') because of the information he has released to China and Russia. How about waiting until the dust settles before calling this fella a hero. It's premature.

how about letting the dust settle before calling him a traitor? it's premature.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by cartenz
The rhetoric from those supporting the status quo is abhorrent. Shame on you; Is that the world you want future generations to inherit?

Shame on YOU. Where exactly do you see people supporting 'the status quo'?? No where.
I think people here have been very clear ...

- Most all of us support that Snowden told the American people about the NSA spying on them.
- A few of us have stated that we do not support that Snowden went further and told China and Russia our national security secrets and is threatening to tell many more.

Maybe it is time for you to realize that what you keep uttering there is factually based on nothing.

Otherwise, show us the proof that he gave this information to china and russia.
If you are incapable of doing so then you might want to consider stopping to try and sell it off as a fact.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by crazyewok
He has not exposed names and the mechisms of what they have done.

Why would you say that? He has the names and workings. He knows it all. He has downloaded oooodles of information. He's spent weeks in the hands of China and now Russia. He has given up state secrets. So what makes you think that he'll just sit back at some point and say to the Chinese and Russians ... 'no, I"m a good American, I'm not going to tell you anymore' ...

Yeah, right. I've got a bridge to sell ya' ..

you may have to re evaluate who your "enemys" are. At the moment your main enemy is YOUR goverment. And you need help.

Telling China and Russia state secrets to weaken our defense is not helping to stop the NSA from spying on Americans. Not even close.

Snowdon is no more a traitor seeking help from the Russians and Chinese than the founding farther were traitors from seeking help from their enemys the French and Spanish.

Snowden is a traitor because he gave (and is giving) state secrets to China and Russia. Secrets that weaken America. It's just that simple. If he had just told the American people about NSA spying on them, and then he ran to save himself, I'd say he was a hero like Paul Revere or Nathan Hale. But instead ... he ran with state secrets in his pocket and is freely giving them to China and Russia. This weakens America.

what oodles of information did he pull?

as far as i know, he only pulled the information about PRISM..he rattled off a list of other things he COULD have gotten, and released, but he didn't, because that would have been wrong...

do you have any kind of proof that he has other information? do you have any kind of proof that the several states have been in any way harmed by his actions? do you have any kind of proof that anyone has died as a result of his actions?

where are you getting your information?

Originally posted by Daedalus

Originally posted by namehere
things like this are why i hate the U.N and other "international" organizations, their very existence seeks to destroy the sovereignty of nations and their laws under the guise of protecting "human rights" and preventing war. it's all a ruse to destroy nations and people fall for it because their desperation to live in a better world where there is no suffering or strife. why should traitors get off for their crimes just because a hostile nation grants them asylum? might as well just give Russia all of our secrets while we're at it.

so the guy exposes illegal activities being perpetrated by the U.S. federal government upon it's own citizens, and somehow HE'S the bad guy?

how in the hell does THAT logic work?

sometimes I wonder if they're giving out free bottles of stupid pills with every new internet service install..

the thing is, he exposed no illegal activities though, he only exposed details of our intelligence operations and programs which violated no laws, you should be mad at the corporations who worked with the NSA to give them access to all their systems, it's not like they had no choice.

and hey why the insults, i didn't attack you or anyone else's intelligence, instead of attacking me why don't you show me what supposed illegal activities he exposed?

Originally posted by Daedalus
because it sounds like complete bulls**t...

More language from you ... :shk: Calm down. It's just a chat board.

so he told them how U.S. intelligence was hacking into their stuff....i don't see an issue with this. U.S. Intelligence has no business hacking into the systems of a sovereign nation....

Oh grow up. Every country on the planet spys on every other one. Our country needs to spy on China and Russia. And China and Russia need to spy on us and each other. We all need to know what the others are secretly doing. To expect the USA not to spy on them is insane.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Todzer
I don't get your reasoning in this at all, you have been saying he is unpatriotic for going to Russia and China, it is called self preservation.

His 'self preservation' didn't require that he take state secrets of national security and hand them over to China and Russia. His 'self preservation' has probably killed MANY good Americans in the field who are working for our national security. That's pretty unpatriotic.

post after post of "gave away state secrets", and "hurts america", and "killed americans"

unless you have some sort of proof that ANY of this actually happened, would you kindly shut the hell up? you sound like a broken record...

Originally posted by namehere

Originally posted by Daedalus

Originally posted by namehere
things like this are why i hate the U.N and other "international" organizations, their very existence seeks to destroy the sovereignty of nations and their laws under the guise of protecting "human rights" and preventing war. it's all a ruse to destroy nations and people fall for it because their desperation to live in a better world where there is no suffering or strife. why should traitors get off for their crimes just because a hostile nation grants them asylum? might as well just give Russia all of our secrets while we're at it.

so the guy exposes illegal activities being perpetrated by the U.S. federal government upon it's own citizens, and somehow HE'S the bad guy?

how in the hell does THAT logic work?

sometimes I wonder if they're giving out free bottles of stupid pills with every new internet service install..

the thing is, he exposed no illegal activities though, he only exposed details of our intelligence operations and programs which violated no laws, you should be mad at the corporations who worked with the NSA to give them access to all their systems, it's not like they had no choice.

and hey why the insults, i didn't attack you or anyone else's intelligence, instead of attacking me why don't you show me what supposed illegal activities he exposed?

MAYBE the insult was a bit much, but your logic is flawed..

PRISM violates the american people's 4th amendment rights to privacy. not to mention it violates NSA's operational limitations, that state they are not legally allowed to conduct domestic intelligence gathering.

as to the corporations....they. believe it or not, actually didn't have a choice....

the federal government solicits them for information, if they refuse, a warrant is issued, and the federal government takes it by force....then makes them sorry they didn't just give it up in the first place...it's in the best interests of the corporations to work with the federal government...

the problem lies in the federal government soliciting corporations for information they have no business gathering in the first place...

Originally posted by Daedalus
would you kindly shut the hell up?

No. You'll just have to learn to tolerate that people come to different conclusions than you do.
My conclusion at this time .. Snowden went too far with his disclosures.
If you want to hero-worship him. Go right ahead.
But chill out and stop cussing at those of us who have, based on common sense, decided not to.

Originally posted by namehere

Originally posted by Daedalus

Originally posted by namehere
things like this are why i hate the U.N and other "international" organizations, their very existence seeks to destroy the sovereignty of nations and their laws under the guise of protecting "human rights" and preventing war. it's all a ruse to destroy nations and people fall for it because their desperation to live in a better world where there is no suffering or strife. why should traitors get off for their crimes just because a hostile nation grants them asylum? might as well just give Russia all of our secrets while we're at it.

so the guy exposes illegal activities being perpetrated by the U.S. federal government upon it's own citizens, and somehow HE'S the bad guy?

how in the hell does THAT logic work?

sometimes I wonder if they're giving out free bottles of stupid pills with every new internet service install..

the thing is, he exposed no illegal activities though, he only exposed details of our intelligence operations and programs which violated no laws, you should be mad at the corporations who worked with the NSA to give them access to all their systems, it's not like they had no choice.

and hey why the insults, i didn't attack you or anyone else's intelligence, instead of attacking me why don't you show me what supposed illegal activities he exposed?

I couldn't have said it better myself...

Seriously now... We want proof of what your saying.

Where did you get this information about what was release and who was "compromised" or "killed" due to Snowden's actions...

A link to an article somewhere....

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Daedalus
because it sounds like complete bulls**t...

More language from you ... :shk: Calm down. It's just a chat board.

so he told them how U.S. intelligence was hacking into their stuff....i don't see an issue with this. U.S. Intelligence has no business hacking into the systems of a sovereign nation....

Oh grow up. Every country on the planet spys on every other one. Our country needs to spy on China and Russia. And China and Russia need to spy on us and each other. We all need to know what the others are secretly doing. To expect the USA not to spy on them is insane.

That's not the issue. Obama was busy complaining about China's illegal activities while his own hypocritical methods were exposed. What I admire most about Snowden, besides his obvious courage, is his impeccable timing.

reply to post by FlyersFan

No that's not all he did. And we have no idea how the assets in the field have been compromised (aka 'killed') because of the information he has released to China and Russia. How about waiting until the dust settles before calling this fella a hero. It's premature.

No kidding.

Their 'hero' runs to two countries worse than this one since Snowden I have become increasingly disappointed in the 'majority' of people on here.

That are lacking any objectivity, and just latching on to anything, and everything to 'justify' their already preconceived notions.

I guess question everything,accept nothing at face value is dead on ATS.

reply to post by NickK3


Just to throw the question few want to question:

1 year from now... Will we look back at this, and say "This was the man who changed international law"?

Originally posted by neo96

No kidding.

Their 'hero' runs to two countries worse than this one since Snowden I have become increasingly disappointed in the 'majority' of people on here.

That are lacking any objectivity, and just latching on to anything, and everything to 'justify' their already preconceived notions.

I guess question everything,accept nothing at face value is dead on ATS.

So when your founding fathers went to the French and Spansih (Far worse than the British) for help at the start of your revolution they did wrong too?

Its the same principle. The enemy of my enemy is my freind.

Some of us are going to have to choose who our TRUE enemys really are. Is it our own Goverments? Russia or China? And if they all are? Well we will have to choose who is the WORST enemy out the lot.

reply to post by crazyewok

Its the same principle. The enemy of my enemy is my freind.

Haven't been paying attention to the last decade?

That's not working out so well.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by crazyewok

 

Its the same principle. The enemy of my enemy is my freind.

Haven't been paying attention to the last decade?

That's not working out so well.

Some times it doesnt! Thats the Risk though isnt it?

You cant expect to make changes without risks.

Let go back to 1776. Just 2 decades before the French and Spanish were your mortal enemys, you had fought a war to keep them out your lands (Read the 7 year war, American Theater).

But they took the risk of accepting help from them. There was no garentee the French and Spanish wouldnt have just taken the Colonies after Britain left. You also took the risk of a huge drop in political influence, economy and military power after leaving Britain.

If your founding farthers had not taken that risk you would be the United Kingdom of America, you would have a prime minister, a Parliment and you would have the Union jack and stripes. Or worse yet you would be Canada

reply to post by crazyewok


Rationalize that anyway you want the enemy of my enemy has been historical proven to still be an enemy.

Guess people want to ignore they only thing standing between them and Russia and China is their own government.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by resoe26
He did tell the American people about the NSA spying..........
and of COURSE he would flee the country..

But he didn't have to blab national defense state secrets to China and Russia.
He did that because he wanted to. Or because he's been working for China all along.
Either way ... he went too far and has damaged the security of this country and our safety.

if you are so sure of this being the case, and you have proof that this happened, then would you mind listing to me exactly what "national defense state secrets" he's given away?

can you explain to me, if he has indeed harmed our national defense, and and crippled our security, why it is that the enemy has not yet disabled our national defense systems, and invaded?

if you have proof, let's see it...

until then, you are speculating, and making wild accusations...

Originally posted by crazyewok
So when your founding fathers went to the French and Spansih (Far worse than the British) for help at the start of your revolution they did wrong too?

Again ... its not the same. Snowden isn't going to enemies for help to make America better.
He's dumping info on them that they can use to weaken America. 2 different situations entirely.