"The Rod for the Disobedient" - Wife Beating in Islam

reply to post by wildtimes

Whatever. Make your own bed. You think you know so much better than everyone else. I don't have "Islamophobia", I have "Islam-o-Mistrustfulness." BASED ON WHAT I SEE HAPPENING.

I am inclined to agree with you that there is a difference between a phobia based on irrational fears and mistrust based on cognitive observance and empirical evidence.
I do apologize for my lumping you into my idea of the "Progressive mindset". I know that you care deeply about people and about children especially. I think we just disagree on how to go about it, but I can recognize your good intent.

The Rod for the Disobedient" - Wife Beating in Islam

If I may, let's set aside the religious reference for one sentence and just address the subject of men beating women.

Wow, once you do that... the answer is not so far away.

Males who abuse females are the lowest form of the (my) gender... IMESHO. besides that, if this god is so omnipotent, let him wage the wars on infidels and beat the girls...

If this deity lands in the west, there may be an ass-whoopin because ladies here pack a kick.

reply to post by wildtimes

You choose to dismiss my ideas, and you are adept at pointing out history - but what are your 'suggestions' for immediate intervention?

Why do you interpret what I said to you as dismissing your ideas? I merely provided some slight historical correction to a point you made. Are you referring to logical7's proposal for grassroots action, which you endorsed? I'm not dismissing it; anything that might help the situation is certainly worth trying.

Bear in mind, though, that any action will have malefic as well as beneficial results (such is the nature of action; karma, you know). When a situation is as complex and tangled as are the politics of the Middle East and the confrontation between post-Enlightenment Western society and fundamentalist Islam, the chances that any intervention will have predictable, positive results is slim indeed.

At least I'm trying to come up with reasonable options and solution suggestions. But fine, I'll step out of your way. Have at it.

Please. This is not my thread, and you are welcome – as far as I am concerned – to post whatever you wish in it. However, I just went through your posts again and the only proposed solution I see in any of them is this:

Thus, we all need to get ON THE SAME PAGE if we are going to survive as a species.

Which may well be true, but it is not really a programme of action.

Instead, what I've seen in your posts is Muslim-bashing, right from the outset. I could go through them one by one, pointing to every instance of it – it would not be helpful, but I will if you ask me to. Perhaps you do not see how you blame Muslims for Christians' lack of understanding of them (a bit rich, that), and pin the responsibility for the Crusades on a prophet who lived and died more than four hundred years before they began – but a Muslim reader would certainly see these things, and take justifiable offence.

The point is, you are continuing with the quarrel, just as logical7 is. You both feel you are doing so in the interests of truth and fairness, but the practical effect is simply to add to the misunderstanding and bitterness.

As I said before, I don't believe a political solution to this mess exists. Getting everyone on the same page is an idle dream. But I did propose a solution that can work for individuals – at least those who are not directly involved in the conflict: walk away from it. The more Muslims and Christians refuse to fight this battle, the less of a battle there will be. If there was ever a case for the pacifist response, this is it. Just turn round and keep on walking.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

Hmm. Thought you weren't going to post on the thread any more.

Now have I made myself very clear?

You have made it clear that nothing you have contributed so far is in any way relevant to the thread topic. Have a nice day!

reply to post by Astyanax


I reserve the right to change my mind at any time.

And thanks, I had a very productive day. In fact I attended a coalition of Tea Party/conservative activists tonight. Yep, a county commissioner from around these parts gave a talk about economic systems, Austrian, Chicago school of economics vs Keynesian policy, with a plug on G Edward Griffin and his book, "The Creature From Jekyll Island", my good friend and cohort made a plug about the Common Core Standards. The county Commissioner also gives talks on Agenda 21. Yep, it was a good day.
The way I see it, any time I can educate people about what is going on is relevant. There are people who are becoming very knowledgeable about the Bilderbergs, the Rothschilds, the Power Elite, the NWO, The UN and varying One World Government programs.
As far as I'm concerned you are going to be lost in the rear view mirror.
Now you have a nice day too.

(such is the nature of action; karma, you know).

Sometimes there's collateral damage in the sphere of worldly action. George Washington was willing to risk that in his embodiment as the General who fought with troops who sometimes had no decent shoes to wear. That is historical too by the way. His final embodiment was as Guy Ballard of the I Am Movement which did boast a million members in the 30's.

I really love this book, "The Bodhisattva Warriors" which gives some background of how Ta Mo (Bodhidarma) taught the Shaolin monks martial arts, the Five Animal system, of which I have had the privilege of learning at least a little bit. These monks are trained and disciplined in the art of war, and yes they did fight to defend their temple when the forces of the Emperor during the Qing dynasty attacked and destroyed it. The author explains that even the Shaolin monks knew that the way of Buddha is to defend your space, your life, because your life is valuable.

www.wisdom-books.com...

Now what were we talking about? oh karma, so you were saying...

The more Muslims and Christians refuse to fight this battle, the less of a battle there will be.

oh yes, do you have any idea of when people are going to stop trying to destroy buildings and murdering ambassadors? I hope it's soon, because our current administration and State dept apparently just walked away from Benghazi while an attack was happening.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

I reserve the right to change my mind at any time.

A woman's prerogative, as the old saw has it.

Now, about that horse of yours: hollow inside, or solid wood all the way through?

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

I reserve the right to change my mind at any time.

A woman's prerogative, as the old saw has it.

Now, about that horse of yours: hollow inside, or solid wood all the way through?

Why hollow of course. How else can the Trojan be delivered...

reply to post by Astyanax


i agree to almost everything you say and i appreciate your objectivity a lot. It does help to look at things from the perspective of an uninvolved observer.
I do have an objection to what you said below

When a situation is as complex and tangled as are the politics of the Middle East and the confrontation between post- Enlightenment Western society and fundamentalist Islam, the chances that any intervention will have predictable, positive results is slim indeed.

you maybe just using(repeating) a term that is used by the above society to describe itself.
It however is one of the root cause of the problem, its the "ego"!!
It exists on both sides. Each party thinking that they have better things to offer to the other and so justifying forcing it on the other and getting confused when its resisted as they are just trying to "help"

i do agree that the situation is complex. It cannot be solved by the party feeling superior to the other and yes a slim chance that humility will be shown long enough to understand the other.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


Well, thank you for that. I appreciate it very much.

There are dangerous people in EVERY political movement, religion, organization, and public institution. The problem I've had with Islam is trying to cross-reference the myriad sites that claim to "describe it" - and what I've found is that the "religion" of Islam is fractured, misunderstood, and misused even by many of its followers.

I know your main concern is the "NWO/Illuminati Totalitarian" thing - and I have looked into the sources and articles and UN website and Bilderberg stuff also.

Honestly, ThirdEye, I don't think there's any stopping it now - the internet has already created a New World Order. It's not going to stop - the globe is becoming more cohesive as a populace - slowly and painfully, but with awareness of 'others' more easily achieved than ever before, anyone who's tuned in to global events, politics, faith, etc. is no longer able to simply block it out.

I don't see any problem at all with Universalist or Humanitarian thoughts. I don't know how much of my contributions regarding the elites, corrupt politicians, bankers, corporate moguls you have followed - I hold them ALL accountable for the ongoing suffering of the majority of the world, and it makes me foam at the mouth. ESPECIALLY the cheating, dirty, immoral acts of TPTB who heretofore have got away with their crap because we just DIDN'T KNOW what they were doing. THE ACTS OF WAR MUST STOP.

I think it's too late for TPTB - whether men subjugating women - or leaders subjugating their people - to "keep a strangle-hold" on those they once easily controlled - it is clear that people WILL rise up and protest - it's happening all over the world. OWS was a rather tame effort - but it was a sign of increasing unrest, similar to - but opposite of - the Arab Spring movement (which is actually a youth-driven movement to go DEEPER into Islam, from what I can tell.) TPTB are scrambling - the emperors REALLY have "no clothes" anymore.

I don't have any answers, but I honestly don't think we can avoid coming to a "global" consensus.
Islam is fraught with problems, by their own admission - and it's unfortunate that because of the current situation ALL OF THEM are being doubted, and LOTS of non-Muslims don't want anything to do with them because we can't figure out who are the "good guys" and who are the "bad guys."

Some "universal standards" need to be put in place - my optimistic hope is that it will lead to EVERYONE having adequate freedom, education, food/water, clean air, shelter, health care, etc. And NO ONE is being "disciplined" with torture, abuse, deprivation, or oppression. I really do want "progress" in those areas. All of them.

reply to post by wildtimes


You are welcome. I am glad we could meet in the middle somewhere. I agreed with everything in your post. Yes, people are rising up and it is making the Elites very nervous so that they are even increasing the acceleration of their plans. I believe there is still hope though.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
These guys are Not advocating violence to women. They are saying the rod must only be used in extreme circumstances and Never to hurt the woman.

Dude .. using a rod to abuse a person IS violence against that person.
It doesn't matter how big the rod is ... it doesn't matter how much damage is or isn't done.
Abuse is abuse.

Just like many American's spank their children.

:shk: A grown man spanking a woman with a rod because he does't like her behavior.
Ignorance. Insulting ignorance.

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

I'm not sure if you realized what Astyanax was insinuating in asking about your horse being hollow. The wooden horse he was referring to is a triangular wooden wedge, sharp end up, that a woman straddles for punishment. He was basically insinuating that you are straddling a wooden wedge jammed into your p*ssy, and that you will remain there until it rots. So hollow = less time on the horse. Just thought you might like to know that. You can look it up and you'll see that I'm for real.

a reply to: Astyanax

I don't think she understood what "wooden horse" you were referring to.