My reaction to the EDL.

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reply to post by Ramcheck


Although he / she did not put it in the best way, that is true.

Please see the paper attached Princeton

Originally posted by JakiusFogg
reply to post by TrueBrit

 

All good points.

But I want to get your feelings on

1. English is now the minority language in London (not tourists)

Great point, but have you considered that this was the case for a very long time indeed? This country was a stop on the slaver route, and the place was TEEMING with all manner of people for generations back then, with barely an eye being batted. In fact, London has been heavily multicultural for hundreds of years, not just the last twenty or thirty or forty. Things of this nature ebb and flow and change and warp all the time. It is a natural process, which is only ever caught up on when some bunch of egomaniacal halfwits, with sewers for minds, and pustules for hearts, get thier hate on.

2. the persistent encroachment of central and local government to oppress and label any display of national pride (except on national events) as racist.

Again, that is a problem with government and not with the people who come under constant attack from the people being discussed in this thread.

3. The seeming scared bias the police had towards not dealing with ethic trouble makers.

Have you seen the stop and search statistics lately? Arent many white business types putting up with police invading the privacy of thier phones and backpacks these days, that I can tell you for sure. Again , these are all issues which the government are supposed to deal with, and the correct response when one is unhappy with that state of affairs is to petition the government to change laws, to enforce them, and to protect the citizenry, ALL THE CITIZENRY (of every race, creed, colour and faith). It is not to take to the streets, and make an arse of ones self on a semi professional basis.

reply to post by TrueBrit


Agreed London has always been a haven for mulch-cultural ism. Were the Jews not a prime target for the Ripper cases in 1888? yes they were. However, there has always been a majority of "native" English speakers. I.e. people born here (regardless of color).

Now the ENGLISH language is the lesser spoken language in London. This is not the first city in the UK to experience this.

What I am saying, has nothing to do with color, but culture. And yes it is the fault of the governments (central and local) in successive regimes who have promoted ethic diversity as a good thing, which it does, However it has been shown in academic studies (I can find the papers if you wish) that what we see in situations of intense multiculturalism, are reactions (on both sides) that we have now. Where each stick to their own in an effort to protect their own identity.

it was a time when we were all British. The Black Caribbeans and Indians are testimony to this. Now, it seems to me as if my country is being torn apart and has had it's identity vilified.

And that is not what multiculturalism, old or new should be about.

THAT is why we need to be proud, and encourage and give our new kinsmen a reason to be proud, and rejoice in being British, instead of being hateful or inciting hate,

My wife is an immigrant. One of my favorite picture is of here taking the oath of allegiance. she looks so proud. I taught her well.

Originally posted by JakiusFogg
reply to post by Ramcheck

 

Although he / she did not put it in the best way, that is true.

Please see the paper attached Princeton

Sorry I meant the 'White British Land' speech rather than the figures. It was my father in his 80s - who fought the Nazis - that gave me the doctor throwing the baby at at wall analogy, he's not a fan of the fascist EDL or SDL (who have about 15 members ) either you can imagine.

Populations generally grow, that's what they do. They rarely fall, not without a huge catastrophe, disease, extermination or mass emigration.

reply to post by Ramcheck


My great uncle was awarded the Military Medal at Arnhem for action against a tank while wounded, was taken prisoner. When he came back was a founder member of the 43 Group after the war.

he was a Polish Jew, and still an English Gentleman.

Regardless of colour, creed or background. This is what we have lost, and we need to find again. Our national identity.

As far as populations are concerned, the white breed if you will is falling. This is consistent across Europe. Where as immigrant family are growing. Now, there is no an issue with this if they come to the country and learn to live 'by the rules' not to seclude themselves according to rules of the land they left.

reply to post by JakiusFogg


The problem with pride, and the political response to it, and the problems being seen throughout the country are not the fault of those who are actually dealing with those issues at the moment.

Successive governments have failed to deal with the real problems in an expiditious manner, or indeed to the satisfaction of the concerned parties, and that is a problem with government. In all fairness, this entire issue, the existence of the EDL, and the existence of small, terroristic fundamentalists, are all down to the utter failiure of the government to correctly apply resource and critical intellectual thought to the issues at hand. Right now, tens of billions are being wasted by every government department, due to poor contracting with thier suppliers of office materials, buildings from which to administrate the nation, and so on. Whitehall is draining our nation of resources.

Compare that vast balls up with the tiny threat actually being presented at this time, and I think its pretty clear where the concern ought to lay at this time. If the government were not so busy wasting our money, they could afford to keep a better track on the dangerous minorities on both the Muslim fundamentalist side, and the white supremacist bastard side. But the government blanket refuse to deal with the problem of recouping this missing money, streamlining not the services, but the material cost of running them. They would rather fire public sector workers, and waste the money that could be being used to increase our levels of saftey.

My messege to those allied with the EDL and who are concerned about Islamic terror issues, is be concerned about the real problem. Dont be fooled into thinking that the EDL are in your corner, thier corner is the one with the most beer and urine stains in it, and it smells like decaying animal flesh. Think. Learn. Understand, and then when you have that under your belt, use your mind and not your mouth, petition your local government for the changes that YOU can see making a good difference in your area. When and if that fails, take it to Westminister. If the number of people who currently get fanatic about these issues, calmed down, sobered up, read a book and learned something, they could take LEGITIMATE concerns to central government in unquestionable numbers, and lend real weight to real change.

All that, however, looks like far to much effort for a bunch of people who gave themselves a gold star for tying thier shoelaces correctly.

Originally posted by TrueBrit
I am here to speak to you,
In a language you understand,
Not the voice of reason and passion,
But a speech delivered,
From a bunched up hand,

I am here to educate you,
And your stunted inbred spawn,
Teach you that your hatred and anger,
So ill considered,
Earns you nothing but scorn,

Xenophobic psychopaths,
One and all,
You better be listening,
Because this is the final call,
There is no forgiveness,
Only a terminal fall,
You swastika waving bastards,
Well now the worm has turned,
No escape is on the cards,
Just the crisp and crackle,
As your diseased flesh begins to burn,

See its my right and duty,
To protect the human race,
And by your very own logic,
You're due a hammer to the face,
So brace yourselves,
You wastes of flesh,
Prepare yourselves to die,
There will be a reckoning,
Between you and I.

Why are the So called anti facists so obsessed with using hammers on people

Prepare yourselves to die,
There will be a reckoning,
Between you and I.

ooo scarry words from behind a keyboard

you and your supporters come across as the soap dodging cowards I have had many dealings with
in fact really your the reason I left the EDL you disgust me as much a radical islam but you are defenatly repressent a larger percentage of the population IMHO

What bugs me is the whole "white is dying" argument.

Weren't our ancestors all black at one point before leaving Africa?

That aside though, I reckon mixed race children are probably good for humanity, there has to be some genetic breakdown over the centuries from same race breeding. Look at mongrels for example (dogs), they tend to live longer than pure breeds, is this because of a strengthening through a fresh infuse of genetics?

They say incest is illegal partly because of the risk of giving birth to children with defects due to little genetic variance between the mother and father, in most towns and cities a lot of the people raised there for generations will share common ancestors, and will probably suffer from some genetic disorder (no matter how small and insignificant). I think mixed race breeding in humans is what could save the species.

Multiculturalism is good, and yes, it is a shame with it comes the extremists, but the EDL are no better.

reply to post by dam00


TrueBrit is against the EDL....did you read the poem fully? or did you just see the words you wanted to see and formed a new OP in your head which was the complete opposite of what was originally posted?

reply to post by dam00


As I have mentioned several times in this thread, I have no intention of using violence on people. That is why I write vicious poetry, as an outlet for the rage that an unjust world breeds in the hearts of righteous people. It is precisely because I am behind a keyboard, as opposed to being behind someone with a wire saw round thier necks, which means I can actually process my emotions without allowing them to get the better of me, something that many people fail to understand, or interact with, which leads to disorderly behavior, murders, assaults, and so on.

And as for soap dodging, I do not think so. I am a tradesman, a locksmith by profession. I can assure you after a long day morticing doors, boring holes in plate steel, and being within a drillbits length of hot steel from nine in the morning till after dusk, the first and only thing I want to do is get in the shower. I am actually repainting my bathroom this week, to make the whole process cleaner (our crappy landlord left the bathroom in a pretty parlous state I can tell you).

reply to post by TrueBrit


Agreed as usual, you make a very coherent arguments, not only that but provide courses of actions, which is excellent. I would support that from the cultural aspect that all, not just immigrant communities, but all people of the UK (especially England) to reconnect with your communities. Look at the history of the place you live, locally, regionally and nationally. Do not be shy or scared about it. Support the people who fight and struggle to keep old traditional alive. Without those, we are nothing but boxes up clones, within arms reach of a Tesco Express and a Leisure park with a bowling alley, cinema, and a Frankie & Benny's (bleargh)

To those who want to profess that that want "Bri'ain to be about Bri'ish". Learn what it is to be British, and welcome those of whatever background, who also wish to hold those values. Honesty fairness, charm, comradeship, self deprecation, humility, hard work, family, and community. Be the example that others who come here want to aspire to.

I know what it is to be an expat, you become the best nationalist you can be. They key is to find someone who can show you the best way to be the person of the country you are in. Can YOU (in general) be that person? are you brave enough?

reply to post by woogleuk


I think what you mean is multi-geneticism is good, Just to play devil advocate, can you explain why you believe the mix of cultures is good, and do you see any possible downside to this?

Originally posted by JakiusFogg
reply to post by TrueBrit

 

Agreed as usual, you make a very coherent arguments, not only that but provide courses of actions, which is excellent. I would support that from the cultural aspect that all, not just immigrant communities, but all people of the UK (especially England) to reconnect with your communities. Look at the history of the place you live, locally, regionally and nationally. Do not be shy or scared about it. Support the people who fight and struggle to keep old traditional alive. Without those, we are nothing but boxes up clones, within arms reach of a Tesco Express and a Leisure park with a bowling alley, cinema, and a Frankie & Benny's (bleargh)

To those who want to profess that that want "Bri'ain to be about Bri'ish". Learn what it is to be British, and welcome those of whatever background, who also wish to hold those values. Honesty fairness, charm, comradeship, self deprecation, humility, hard work, family, and community. Be the example that others who come here want to aspire to.

I know what it is to be an expat, you become the best nationalist you can be. They key is to find someone who can show you the best way to be the person of the country you are in. Can YOU (in general) be that person? are you brave enough?

Personally I don't think the average Brit does have any problems with other cultures BUT any problems there are stem from government and those in charge favouring or giving preferential treatment to certain groups.. Basically the PC bunch has to realise that by doing so THEY cause the problems, NOT the immigrants and other cultures or for that matter "the Brits"

It's the policies that cause the trouble.

Originally posted by woogleuk
What bugs me is the whole "white is dying" argument.

Weren't our ancestors all black at one point before leaving Africa?

That aside though, I reckon mixed race children are probably good for humanity, there has to be some genetic breakdown over the centuries from same race breeding. Look at mongrels for example (dogs), they tend to live longer than pure breeds, is this because of a strengthening through a fresh infuse of genetics?

They say incest is illegal partly because of the risk of giving birth to children with defects due to little genetic variance between the mother and father, in most towns and cities a lot of the people raised there for generations will share common ancestors, and will probably suffer from some genetic disorder (no matter how small and insignificant). I think mixed race breeding in humans is what could save the species.

Multiculturalism is good, and yes, it is a shame with it comes the extremists, but the EDL are no better.

edit on 20/6/13 by woogleuk because: (no reason given)

What a vile and disgusting post

reply to post by JakiusFogg


JakiusFogg, it is a pleasure to know that you understand where I am comming from on these issues. I believe you and I might find some fairly deep common ground. As I mentioned in a previous post, I am a tradesman, and I prefer traditional methods in my work. I like paper reciepts for my customers, I use hand tools more than powered ones, and I drink tea and real ale. Its the old stuff that is the best.

However, the reason I support our multi-faceted society, is that the very nature of our nation is transitional, and the traditions we keep despite that are what identifies us, not just to ourselves but to the rest of the world as well. It is our traditions, political and cultural, which make us so attractive to university applicants, immigrants, businesses, and holiday makers. They are part of the lifeblood that beats in all subjects of the realm, no matter where they were born.

One of those traditions is fair play, and no nonsense is another (excepting the entire output of Monty Python for example, which lets face it, is some damned delicious nonsense, that and the cheese rolling and going out at midday despite the heat of the summers hottest excesses). It is fair play to offer religious freedom, and it is nonsense of the worst kind to battle the wrong foe, when the wolves are at the door.

reply to post by dam00


Ah, I see what you did there. You confused the words "vile and disgusting" with the correct terminology which would have been "well informed, and scientifically accurate".

Its an easy mistake to make...

reply to post by JakiusFogg


The mix of cultures, when done right, can be a rewarding experience.

Every culture has its own things to be proud of, whether art, philosophy, music, food etc.... (I would be lost without a vindaloo/phall once a month).

You don't need to bring religion into the equation when experiencing other cultures, and the more reasonable people know that and they can exist side by side.

I know a few people (Indian, Chinese, Middle Eastern, Turkish) who are Muslims/other religion that live in town, they never let their religion show, but they still introduce people to the things their people are into, such as music, food etc, and they embrace our culture too. I think the majority of people are like that when they come into our country (or born and raised here).

It's just sad how people like the EDL jump on it everytime someone of a different race / religion commits a crime, like no white British person ever committed similar crimes.

Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by dam00

 

As I have mentioned several times in this thread, I have no intention of using violence on people. That is why I write vicious poetry, as an outlet for the rage that an unjust world breeds in the hearts of righteous people. It is precisely because I am behind a keyboard, as opposed to being behind someone with a wire saw round thier necks, which means I can actually process my emotions without allowing them to get the better of me, something that many people fail to understand, or interact with, which leads to disorderly behavior, murders, assaults, and so on.

And as for soap dodging, I do not think so. I am a tradesman, a locksmith by profession. I can assure you after a long day morticing doors, boring holes in plate steel, and being within a drillbits length of hot steel from nine in the morning till after dusk, the first and only thing I want to do is get in the shower. I am actually repainting my bathroom this week, to make the whole process cleaner (our crappy landlord left the bathroom in a pretty parlous state I can tell you).

and do you think ATS is the place for vicious poetry, which isnt very good.