Secret Service Visits Outspoken Obama Critic – Because of Tweets

Originally posted by redtic
So, where would you draw the line then, if not at "air force one strewn with bullet holes"? As Rocker said above, there has to be a line - perhaps this guy didn't indeed cross it, but it's not as clear-cut as many are making it out to be. imho.

Why does there need to be a line and who determines that line? I thought we had laws that delineate the lines not what some jackboot idiot determines is the line.

Originally posted by HauntWok
All that happened was he was questioned. Being questioned by the authorities isn't being arrested, it's not being brought up on charges. It's being questioned. The authorities have a right to question suspicious people. And putting up pictures of the President's plane riddled with bullet holes is adequate grounds for the authorities to have a word with the man.

It's statements like this that prove we evolved from apes - and obviously some of us more than others.

Well for one, Obama is Waaaaaaaayyyyy Overrated, he's nothing but a Mouthpiece PUPPET doing the DIRTY work for a Much more sinister body of POWER, a Cult of Personality Wanna be if there Ever was one, and a Charasmatic. Distractor,

If you have any Political "wisdom" it's Biden, the Congress, the Joke of a Kangaroo Court (Supreme) Dept of State that you should keep obsessed with, so the whole oh can't speak against the oh GOD PREZ,

Plaleese, he ain't That special. Just a Figurehead like the Queen doing the bidding of his Puppet Masters, it's all a huge Theater, so...

The whole possible threat thing, while yes it IS serious to Any leader of any REGIME, granted, it's NOT the ONLY reason the Puppiteers Jackboots seek out potential "threats", more so, This incident is about INFLUENCING PUBLIC OPINION,

Meaning, the man was targeted not so much of his "alleged possible" threat potential as much as HE HAD FOLLOWERS...and THAT'S what they go after, because it's the Public Opinion that DOES have the POWER, a d Cult of Personality's can't have that, Nor their "control depts" as they need that stability to Brainwash easier...and so installing Police WATCHFUL EYE everywhere is just another way to keep the dumb peasants who DON'T have any political power Anyway and NEVER DID, in check.

But see BEFORE the dumb masses really THOUGHT they had power and as Long as that Delusion was maintained all was well, the Reps of Elites could go on about their sordid business without a flinch,

But now the veil is coming off bit by bit and therefore the Powers must see to it that the theater stage is refreshed from time to time Reminding the little CAPTIVES who's Boss, it isn't the American dum dum, it's the Senate and the Emporer and his SS KGB Ald all the rest of the Globalized puppeteers ENFORCERS. They Have to keep busy all that adrenaline when. They aren't Mowing down innocents in other countries or

Raping children sex slaves...

Cut them some slack, seriously...they just your typical everyday EMPIRE, Geesh, of Course they going to go after those who don't Salute Ceasar when the trumpet sounds,

And Fact of the matter is, Every Despot leader is one, Paranoid, from Stalin to Mao etc., food checks and all, but it's not from some ole Nutcase, oh no,

But from their VERY OWN KIND whom SEEK their POWER, which IS why they'll Crucify you for I fluencing public opinion,

It's All about maintaining that Public DELUSION, and yes, they'll KILL you for it,

It's all part of maintaining the Political Narcissist Fantasy if them being....

GOD.

Originally posted by MRuss
To all the folks who think a visit by the SS to this twitter guy was warranted.... I say... "Are you serious?"

Freedom of Speech doesn't carry across to threats, in *ANY* form, against the President or those close to that level of national leadership. That's not moral judgement. That's black and white federal law.

If someone is out in the conspiracy realms or blogosphere and is NOT aware of that part of federal code, ignorance is no excuse and ignorance would be profound.

18 USC § 871 - Threats against President and successors to the Presidency

It really is clear and sharp federal law. It has been since I was a kid, anyway. I'm shocked anyone on ATS and in political debating would be unaware of it??

As mentioned before... The Secret Service isn't asked 'would you like to check out that threat?' They *HAVE* to check out every threat. Every single last one of them. Every troll, moron and simple minded dolt who makes a threat, they have to drop the doughnuts and go waste their day making sure it's just a troll and not the next Hinkley Jr. with a grudge.

At least we know the USSS does something constructive besides stand around looking like potted plants or ripping off young prostitutes in Colombia.

reply to post by Rocker2013


So now we are paying visits to people based on how they look? are you kidding?

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by MRuss
To all the folks who think a visit by the SS to this twitter guy was warranted.... I say... "Are you serious?"

Freedom of Speech doesn't carry across to threats, in *ANY* form, against the President or those close to that level of national leadership. That's not moral judgement. That's black and white federal law.

If someone is out in the conspiracy realms or blogosphere and is NOT aware of that part of federal code, ignorance is no excuse and ignorance would be profound.

18 USC § 871 - Threats against President and successors to the Presidency

It really is clear and sharp federal law. It has been since I was a kid, anyway. I'm shocked anyone on ATS and in political debating would be unaware of it??

As mentioned before... The Secret Service isn't asked 'would you like to check out that threat?' They *HAVE* to check out every threat. Every single last one of them. Every troll, moron and simple minded dolt who makes a threat, they have to drop to doughnuts and go waste their day making sure it's just a troll and not the next Hinkley Jr. with a grudge.

At least we know the USSS does something constructive besides stand around looking like potted plants or ripping off young prostitutes in Colombia.

He wasn't THREATENING anyone. His political cartoon, the one the SS used to get into his home had a completely different point entirely. The shot up plane was part of a three piece comic which (if you look closely) basically says that Obama went to visit Israel and when he came back his plane had bullet holes everywhere. People in Israel don't like him much which is why his plane is all shot up. The comic doesn't say "I'm going to shoot up Obama's plane", it says "people or the country of Israel put bullet holes in it because they don't like Obama, at which Obama expresses his surprise that he isn't liked".

There's a huge difference between saying "I'm going to shoot Obama" and "people from another country shot up his plane because they don't like him over there".

Originally posted by seamus

Originally posted by VictorVonDoom
This really sucks. I've been calling Obama a lying, murdering, bastard for over a year, and nobody visits me. What, do I smell bad or something?

Sorry, Vic. It's the armor. It's getting a little... ripe?

What can I say? It's hard to find a dry cleaner that takes titanium.

reply to post by 2manyquestions


Any form means any form. Pictures of Air Force 1 shot up outside of a Hollywood movie is going to get the attention of the Secret Service. Simple as that. There was a guy in Texas before the election that had a full billboard with Obama and a very vague "threat". You had to really read it the right way to see it that way....and he too got a visit as the news reported.

it's their job and I'm sure they don't like that side of it either. Still, it is what they're required to do. He wasn't arrested as I understand this. Just talked to.... So, the system worked. He wasn't a threat and they went back to whatever it is Secret Service agents do when they aren't chasing down cranks and idiots with bad judgement.

It looks like the Secret Service were REALLY bored and had nothing better to do. So they sought out Mr. Twitter
for a little fun methinks. You know chasing around for prostitutes that will tell you that "You're too sexy for your shirt" can be a bit demanding, so they needed a break.
Besides TPTB has so many versions of O out there that any supposed threat is a joke anyway.

Originally posted by HauntWok
reply to post by ThreeBears

 

WOW the KGB in the day would have LOVED YOU! have any uh, suspicious Books, Art, on ya there bud? Why lest take a look through those closets, just to make sure you are not an Enemy of Stalin,

Here here! It's ONLY for the Common Good!

Oh please, the guy posted a picture of the president's plane riddled with bullet holes, and the secret service is just supposed to ignore that?

Besides, the man willingly relinquished his 4th Amendment rights.

From the article in the OP:

On April 11, 2013, he heard relentless pounding on his door shouts of “Police!” The officers introduced themselves as members of The Secret Service and asked if they could “take a look around.”

Since Tom had nothing to hide (and he didn’t want any return visits) – he complied fully with their request. He even signed a consent to search his premises AND an “Authorization To Review Medical and Mental Health Records!”

He willingly let them into his home, he willingly gave up his right. He could have told them to go to hell and get a warrant. But he didn't.

He was just questioned, not even detained, or arrested. I really don't see the problem.

1- Good call on the bullet holes. I didn't even notice that, at first. Guess that makes a little more sense of the situation. Still seems a bit extreme, to me. That was clearly part of a gag / comic. Unless someone has the reading comprehension of a kindergartener, it's very clear from reading the whole "comic" that it's supposed to be understood that it was Israel, ( or at least when flying over Israel,) that caused these bullet holes to occur.

Seems a bit flimsy to me.



2- Regarding the consent-- this guy was clear that he was worried if he didn't give consent they would just come back with a warrant, and would tear his place apart as retribution for not having consented. Some police agencies have been known to do this, and homeowners have (to the best of my knowledge) usually been unsuccessful trying to sue said agencies for damages. (And that's to say nothing of simply trashing the place, but not breaking anything... it's not like they have to neatly put everything away when they're done.)

I agree, that may not be the best reason to give up one's rights. Secondary to that, not consenting might "look bad" for him, on the record. Also not an awesome reason to just give up one's rights... but you deny the secret service a search, that might look a little shady. Then, if they find anything, or better yet, plant something it makes you look even more suspicious.


The whole thing is a little extreme, IMHO.

This is why Snowden had to release his info in China with the help of the communists there.

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
So being critical of the government is grounds for a visit from the secret service now? Have people gone completely insane?

There is a difference between being critical and pure hate speech, saying whatever comes to your mind.

One can be critical intelligently bringing up strong solid arguments and staying calm without without the hate speech and no concrete proofs. What that guy is saying on Twitter is far from intelligent criticism and his political views can be considered extremist, at least based on his posts in Twitter.

I personally see nothing wrong in authorities checking such people out, just in case. Most extremists stay with the hate speech in internet, although for some this might lead to extreme actions in order to spread their opinion. We have all heard about the bombings, ricin letters etc. All of these have been done by people with extreme political views, who wanted to be heard, who had strong opposite opinions of what was happening and did not see any other choice than to take action.

Also what is bad with such hate speeches is the fact that if one has lots of followers, he might be able to convince them into same mindset (even without communicating directly with the people) and one of them might decide for extreme action.

Checking such people out is necessary in order to prevent such actions. Nothing was done to him, he was not assaulted, he was not locked up, he was just questioned, probably with the motive of seeing whether he is mentally stable and would not do extreme action.

Nobody is forcing you not to be critical of the actions of the government or some other institution, we are not living in North Korea. Although all this can be done intelligently without the hate.

Gee... What a nice regular guy.
Maybe it was the pic of Air-Force 1 riddled
with bullet holes that got the SS's attention?

Originally posted by redtic
So, where would you draw the line then, if not at "air force one strewn with bullet holes"? As Rocker said above, there has to be a line - perhaps this guy didn't indeed cross it, but it's not as clear-cut as many are making it out to be. imho.

If some art is considered offensive by some, some of it is going to be considered beautiful by others...it's art mate, not a statement of intent.

The line you mention would be where someone is urging others to actually harm someone esle, president or roadsweeper, it's a crime all the same.

Another line would be if the guy was tweeting plans on how to go about actually firing bullets into AF1, or the president...isn't that supposed to be the entire reason for the spying? To discover actual plots in progress and not thought gymnastics from some bored bloke doodling on his PC?

I remember when art was considered to be an intellectual and abstract commentary on personal thoughts, feelings and opinions. Political satire through the medium of art is traditional and celebrated and it's also as old as politics itself.

Having the heavies batter your door and intimidating you for political art is very 1940's...much too much 1940's actually.

It would have been more sensible, better politics, smarter policing and golden public relations to have left the guy alone, kept an eye on him and if he was discovered to be planning something illegal, then batter his door in...this is 'pre-crime' policing, nothing less.

Probably wasn't even REAL Secret Service that knocked on his door.

People posting their political views on FaceBook / Twitter immediately FLAG themselves for psychological ops by die hard Democrats protecting their money machine.

People shouldn't be using Twitter and Facebook.....PERIOD. Lots of crazy's in the world with no jobs.....could they decide to pose as Secret Service and bother people who "tweet" anything they don't like......possibility.

reply to post by redtic

So, where would you draw the line then, if not at "air force one strewn with bullet holes"? As Rocker said above, there has to be a line - perhaps this guy didn't indeed cross it, but it's not as clear-cut as many are making it out to be. imho.

Ditto.

What that clown could use is some talent. Overall, his photos are pretty boring. I wouldn't subscribe to his drivel.

If they haven't visited members of this forum yet, I think it's safe to assume he said something that could easily be construed as threatening.

Originally posted by neo96
This is the last straw!!!

No more anti Obama threads by me on here, don't want any visits from the Waffen SS.

That's what they are hoping for.

I would LOL in their faces, set my phone and webcam to record, use my pc webcam to podcast to several live stream sites, and then enjoy our talk about them trying to intimidate me with nazi tactics for being a political opposition member.

I would ignore their questions, all while asking them why they feel it is appropriate to attempt to intimidate me, as that is exactly what a visit from the SS is meant to do.

Their outfits and demeanors are crafted to be intimidating, their clothing and trained stances and sentence structures used are designed, to induce fear in people.

I don't suffer from fear often though, and don't intimidate easily, as I don't have much to lose, so don't really fear losing anything.

My time on this rock is already limited and running out, I will be damned if a spend of any of what I have left living in fear.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by 2manyquestions

 

Any form means any form. Pictures of Air Force 1 shot up outside of a Hollywood movie is going to get the attention of the Secret Service. Simple as that. There was a guy in Texas before the election that had a full billboard with Obama and a very vague "threat". You had to really read it the right way to see it that way....and he too got a visit as the news reported.

it's their job and I'm sure they don't like that side of it either. Still, it is what they're required to do. He wasn't arrested as I understand this. Just talked to.... So, the system worked. He wasn't a threat and they went back to whatever it is Secret Service agents do when they aren't chasing down cranks and idiots with bad judgement.

This is certainly not the opinion I expected from you (judging from many of your other posts). Political cartoons have been around for ages, some worse than others. Unless a person is verbally threatening to kill the president or posts on the internet he/she wants to kill the president, everything else is simple freedom of speech. It's OK to criticize the Government as well as the President short of saying "I want/plan to kill/shoot/murder/blow up/ the president" which is something this guy didn't even hint at. Any person with properly functioning logic can see that after having read the short comic.

Once you lose the freedom to criticize any administration or politician, you're done. When they begin to make people afraid of stating their opinions and criticisms, they are in complete control. Before this administration took over, I didn't feel like I needed to censor myself. Now it seems like any statement not liked by the administration could warrant a visit or punishment, especially if you're the kind of person who's got a big audience like this guy does. As crazy as it sounds, I'm starting to feel very limited as to what I can and cannot say, even though clearly I have no plan to do or say anything illegal.

When my loved ones start to tell me "be careful what you say and post, you don't want to get into trouble" over news articles I share with them, I know there's something really, really wrong here. In my former country people couldn't criticize the Government publicly, and even privately it was a risk. You never knew who might turn you in for saying something like "I hate the president". My father was harassed by their version of the secret service for these very things, for refusing to join the Communist party. His only saving grace was that he had a skill they needed, otherwise he would have been thrown into jail and never heard from again. Be careful of defending the actions of the SS, because seemingly little things like this can and will transform into something made of nightmares.

reply to post by 2manyquestions

Well, I think we may be missing each other a bit on this. I'm coming from a very narrow position of what the law is. As someone who is rather prolific in political writing and very harsh on Obama ...and not all that kind to Bush before that (in his last couple years especially), I've always been intimately aware of where that line is between satire and federal crime on that one statute.

I think the biggest difference between what many, such as yourself, have either experienced or had family experience in other places is that with this topic and the President? You'll know (or should) when you cross it and it won't be a surprise when they come knocking for a sit down and chat. In other nations, who the heck knows which words or thoughts expressed will trip their trigger? Now I admit, the subjective nature of law enforcement these days is blurring all kinds of lines...but this one has always been as sharp as a knife. They've even had movies feature this little quirk to American society as major plot pieces for how well known it is.

You can say anything ..absolutely anything you want about the President or Vice or Speaker of the House. Whichever of them. You'll never have to be concerned in any way ...except ONE thing. You just can't make a physical threat. Real or not. One you are capable of carrying out, or not. That makes no difference on this.

When I said 'Even if your kidding' about it still being a prosecutable crime? That's 100% literal. They don't care and don't try and stop and second guess why you shouldn't be checked out. They are...r e q u i r e d....to check out EVERY single threat. EVERY single time a new one comes to their attention.

So... If you ever want to meet some of the most deadpan and intimidating folks to carry a badge in the U.S. Government? Well, it's REAL hard to get their attention for much of anything ...unless you cross that one bitty line. (Or print your own money and try to spend it. They do that crime too)

Again though, the upside is...it's a clear line we can sit here and quote literal chapter and code section for and know, word for word, what is and isn't across it. Just know, it's pure cause and effect when crossed and nothing much stops what comes next for at least seeing who you are and why for so you have such thoughts.