AZORIAN The Raising of the K-129 and nuclear attack on the US conspiracy theory

I thought I'd post this since there is a new movie out based on one of the theories
of what really happened in real life with respect to this malarky?

www.imdb.com...
en.wikipedia.org...(1960)

The unauthorized launch theory is the basis for the 2013 film Phantom, which includes references to the unexpected deployment, the unusually large crew, and the political motivation, but it introduces a story line that the instigators are rogues both with respect to the Soviet Navy and also to the Soviet leadership.

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

Howard Hughes salvage operation?

en.wikipedia.org...

"Azorian" (erroneously called "Jennifer" after its Top Secret Security Compartment by the press)[2] was the code name for a U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) project to recover the sunken Soviet submarine K-129 from the Pacific Ocean floor in the summer of 1974, using the purpose-built ship Hughes Glomar Explorer.[3]

K-129 crisis of 1968

The Soviet nuclear armed sub sunk approx 1,560 nautical miles off Hawaii, was one of the most complex/expensive ops of the cold war costing a colossal 3.7bn in todays USD .

The soviets did not take salvage the plan serious - probably down to the fact that it would be impossible to
recover one of their subs from that depth.

Anyways the CIA recovered part of it including some nukes and bodies and valuable codebooks etc
(The salvage operation was only partially affective?)

Conspiracy theory

Red Star Rogue[edit]
Kenneth Sewell, in his book Red Star Rogue (2005), offers additional theories and speculation.[22] The book makes the case that K-129 was hijacked by an 11-man special forces team placed aboard and directed by a cabal of KGB hardliners, with full involvement of KGB director Yuri Andropov, that the submarine was successfully commandeered, and that the KGB team actually attempted to launch a nuclear missile targeted against Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
...
This book also claims that Project Azorian was almost a total success and recovered all of its targeted material, including a nuclear missile warhead and cryptographic equipment and codebooks.

Were they going to nuke the US ?
(There's still nukes down there sitting on the ocean floor.)..

Limbo

I am completely disappointed that you are not getting any traffic on this thread.

It is an interesting story, and I subscribed to the thread, thinking that I would come back to read interesting things.

Well, here's a bump, anyway.

You could have put it in an political forum and blamed Obama, that would get hits anyway.

reply to post by butcherguy


Your post gave me a big smile!
Yes it is strange there's not many hits.
I wondered how this story seemed to have had escaped ATS and it being so serious also.

Potential nuclear attack on the USA etc. (tnx!)


Something strange :-
www.cia.gov...

Almost immediately after the disappointing recovery effort, planning began for a second mission to recover the lost section. A bizarre and totally unforeseen occurrence, however, had already started a chain of events that would ultimately expose the Glomar Explorer’s true purpose and make another mission impossible. In June 1974, just before the Glomar set sail, thieves had broken into the offices of the Summa Corporation and stolen secret documents, one tying Howard Hughes to CIA and the Glomar Explorer. Desperate to recover this document, CIA called in the FBI, which in turn enlisted the Los Angeles Police Department. The search drew attention, and by the autumn of 1974 the media began to pick up rumors of a sensational story

Strange why would thieves break into offices and steal docs relating Hughes to the CIA?

Director of Central Intelligence William E. Colby personally appealed to those who had learned about AZORIAN not to disclose the project. For a while they cooperated, but on February 18, 1975 the Los Angeles Times published an account that made connections between the robbery, Hughes, CIA, and the recovery operation. After that, investigative reporter Jack Anderson broke the story on national television, asserting that Navy experts had told him the sunken submarine contained no real secrets and that the project was a waste of taxpayers' money. Journalists flooded into the Long Beach area where the Glomar was preparing for its second mission. The Nixon Administration neither confirmed nor denied any of the stories in circulation, but by late June, the Soviets were aware of the Glomar's covert mission and had assigned a ship to monitor and guard the recovery site. With Glomar’s cover blown, the White House canceled further recovery operations.

Also on that page the CIA basicallya dmits it was a waste of taxpayers money and they found nothing.
I mean come on!!
Limbo

www.youtube.com...
Soviet seamen recovered from the wreck being buried at sea?

Interesting point some of the "hawkeyes" in the comments section pointed out that the video
was looped but the audio was there. Looped for security reasons?

Limbo

www.youtube.com...

Jim Higman talks about Project Azorian

www.independent.com...

Unfortunately the guy has since passed away.

en.wikipedia.org...
(The ship It was a CIA ship!)

Limbo

www.thefreedictionary.com...
A·zore·an, A·zori·an adj. & n
A·zores (zôrz, zrz, -zôrz, -zrz) also A·ço·res (ä-sôrsh)
A group of volcanic islands in the northern Atlantic Ocean about 1,448 km (900 mi) west of mainland Portugal, of which they are administrative districts. Fishing, farming, and tourism are important to their economy.

reply to post by Limbo


Found this thread searching for "Project Jennifer" OOPS!
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Some other interesting stuff

www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol.-56-no.-1/the-glomar-explorer-in-film-and-print.html

•The K-129 probably sank because the rocket engines in two of its missiles ignited sequentially for unknown reasons and burned for more than three minutes over a six-minute time span. The exhaust plumes would have burned into the pressure hull and, with their extremely high temperatures and poisonous fumes, quickly killed all the crew. The misfirings occurred while the submarine was near the surface, with its internal compartments open for ventilation. After part of its sail structure tore away and its bottom was breached, it began to flood and then sank. While investigating the cause of the K-129’s demise, Polmar and White refute alternative theories, such as a collision with or attack by a US nuclear submarine.

Speculation : Could they have been in the process of launching missiles?

The more I read this the more hyperbole it gets - the CIA killed Hughes etc
Rogue soviets were going to nuke the USA
More was recovered than the CIA admitted.....
Limbo

Originally posted by Limbo
www.youtube.com...
Soviet seamen recovered from the wreck being buried at sea?

Interesting point some of the "hawkeyes" in the comments section pointed out that the video
was looped but the audio was there. Looped for security reasons?

Limbo

edit on 11-6-2013 by Limbo because: (no reason given)

The tape was given to the Soviets to show that we treated the bodies with dignity and respect, as I recall.

Did you ever read the book 'Blind Man's Bluff'? It tells the story of the USS Halibut and the mission that located the K 129. It also covers the penetration of Soviet Naval harbors and the missions to tap Soviet undersea Communication cables.
Blind Man's Bluff

reply to post by butcherguy


I've not read it I'll check it out now thanks!
Normally I'm not into military conspiracy theories but this stuff is quite interesting!
Limbo

en.wikipedia.org...(1960)

Some of the theories why the sub sank are investigated.

On 3 October 1986, the Soviet Yankee-class SSBN K-219 while on combat patrol in the Atlantic, suffered an explosion to a liquid-fuelled SS-N-6 missile in one of its 16 missile tubes. The cause of this explosion was determined to be a leaking missile tube hatch seal, allowing sea water to come into contact with the residue of the missile's propellants, which caused a spontaneous fire resulting in an explosion first of the missile booster, then a subsequent explosion of the warhead detonator charge. In the case of the Yankee-class SSBN, the missiles were located within the pressure hull and the explosion did not cause damage sufficient to immediately sink the ship. It did, however, cause extensive radioactive contamination throughout, requiring the submarine to surface and the evacuation of the crew to the weather deck, and later to a rescue vessel which had responded to the emergency. Subsequently, K-219 sank into the Hatteras Abyss with the loss of 4 crewmen, and presently rests at a depth of about 18,000 feet (5,500 m). The Soviet Navy later claimed that the leak was caused by a collision with USS Augusta (SSN-710).

...
There are indicators suggesting K-129 suffered a similar explosion in 1968, eighteen years earlier. First, the radioactive contamination of the recovered bow section and the six crewmen of K-129 by weapons grade plutonium very strongly indicates the explosion of the warhead detonator charge of one of the missiles, prior to the ship reaching crush depth.

Previous posts in this thread talked about the bodies being contaminated with radiation.

Evidence undermining Sewell's false flag operation theory includes CIA's claim that the submarine sank 1,560 nautical miles (2,890 km) northwest of Hawaii,[3] and the 750 nautical miles (1,390 km) missile range speaks against Hawaii as a viable target for such an attack. The Midway Atoll would have been the only target in range.

So questions I'm asking myself now are...(If I am correct in my reading.)

Why was the sub massively off course?
Why was the bell, which was welded to the mid section recovered when this section should be on the sea floor
according to what I've read?

Did the CIA recover more than they claimed and why did they want to go down again?

english.pravda.ru...

Other items related to the K-129 sinking that were given over earlier included the sub's bell and a photography camera apparently used by a sailor on board the ship, he said. U.S. underwater photographs of the sunken sub have not been given to the Russians, despite repeated requests.

(Combination of the ships bell (from mid section?) and no photographs)

I really am leaning towards the fact they recovered more than they are saying.

also

Russian officials long have suspected that the K-129 was struck by an American submarine, the USS Swordfish. But the U.S. Navy says the vessel suffered a catastrophic internal explosion.

This is one of the theories posted as probable cause (Question : was swordfish or other ship near?)
I seem to recall logs saying it was not..
Speculation : Swordfish or other rammed it as it was about to launch missiles?

Could this be why they did not show photos?

Another theory
We had a ship tailing it and it was stealth. When the sub surfaced to launch its missiles we rammed it
and both ships went down? Could this be why it was so important?

Limbo

Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by Limbo
www.youtube.com...
Soviet seamen recovered from the wreck being buried at sea?

Interesting point some of the "hawkeyes" in the comments section pointed out that the video
was looped but the audio was there. Looped for security reasons?

Limbo

edit on 11-6-2013 by Limbo because: (no reason given)

The tape was given to the Soviets to show that we treated the bodies with dignity and respect, as I recall.

Did you ever read the book 'Blind Man's Bluff'? It tells the story of the USS Halibut and the mission that located the K 129. It also covers the penetration of Soviet Naval harbors and the missions to tap Soviet undersea Communication cables.
Blind Man's Bluff

Interesting that there's claims the swordfish collided with it in this book.
I don't know much about ships etc could the swordfish possibly get close to a soviet sub?

(Sorry about the crazy explosion in this thread it is the way I research things!)
Thanks
Limbo

reply to post by Limbo

Yes. US and Soviet subs have suffered collisions, usually just because it is the job of attack boats to locate and trail boomers. When one is trailing the other closely and the boomer doesn't know that the attack sub is there, normal maneuvers by the boomer can create hazards. It's not like you're in a car, you can't actually see the other guy.

Then if you know the attack sub is following you, you can do things to 'mess' with them.... 'playing chicken' if you will. I don't know of any sub captains that would admit to it though, it's really dangerous game to play with hundreds of lives at stake.

After looking at the movie synopsis I understand now what could have happened.

www.mikekemble.com...

Limbo

I love this story! One of my top ten favorites. Totally action-thriller fiction material, all true.

S&F for you.

reply to post by ABNARTY


I agree - I'm also real sad we don't know for sure what really happened to those people
and probably never will... I think we and their families have a right to know.
it's not very often a conspiracy gets me like this. I feel like I've lost something deep!
Limbo

reply to post by butcherguy


Thanks for this recomendation, have downloaded it ,and am reading it now ,

many thanks

snoopyuk