The Real Death Star

Nice thread!

That´s something that ordinary people (like me) often forget: How fragile we are (life on Earth)!

In the event of a worst case scenario, who would want to survive?
Just imagine the excruciating pain, without any medical infra-structure available. All living things on this blueish watery rock dead or about to die.

Things like this should make us think (world leaders in particular).
Why the greed? Why some need so much money? Why, in 2013, we still fight each other (for religion, for money, for control?) and are we draining life and resources on this planet?

It might be an appropriate end for a species (us) that has done a lot of harm to this planet. It´s a pity that other lifeforms here pay such an heavy toll, too.

reply to post by eriktheawful

But, before you go running of in terror

Too late. I hate sunburn !
SnF

reply to post by MysterX


Gamma rays are like light: electromagnetic energy.

They are just at a much, much higher frequency than visible light.

So the speed at which they travel is the same as visible light.

That means that the moment we see the light from when it exploded, the gamma rays are also right there with that light.

But let us hope that those rays are not pointed at us!

reply to post by randyvs


HAHAHAHAHA!

Oh I wish I could give you more than one star! That's a great pic! I can hear Monty Python now:

"RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!"

Originally posted by PollyPeptide

Originally posted by MysterX
That's not how i understand it.

Using a space telescope like Hubble (but others are more suited to searching for GRBs) to view distant objects like WR 104, we are effectively looking back through time.

If we see an object 8000 LY away, we are looking back through time to a period 8000 years ago. And since the light and other EM we can see using the scope is still visible, it means the star has yet to go super or hyper nova, as we see it.

The light or more importantly the radiation from that star, would take 8000 years to reach and threaten us, as it's still there and hasn't exploded yet (from our point of view, 8000 years away)

When talking about distances in terms of Light Years, you may as well think in terms of actual years.

At the speed of light, the GRB would not strike the Earth (even if we were unlucky enough to be in the path of it's focused beam) for 8000 years AFTER we see it explode.

I hope to not seem rude here, but that's not how it works. Gamma Rays travel at the speed of light too, so the moment we see it explode is the moment we get bathed in its radiation.

Hang on, hang on.

Let me get my head around this.

I know light and EM are the same thing, i know GRB are part of the EM spectrum and travel at light speed.

So, if we are looking at a star, 8K LY distant and according to our observations, that star is still intact, we are seeing the light that star emitted 8000 years ago right?

OK, that's what i said in my post.

Now, if we are looking at starlight 8000 years old, even if the star went nova today, the light and Gamma ray wouldn't reach us until it had completed it's journey of 8000 light years, or iow in 8000 years time.

Oh...i get it now. What's being said is maybe WR 104 DID go hypernova 7999 years, 11 months, 29 days ago.

And we wouldn't know about it until tomorrow...is that right?

Wouldn't there be a sign of a star about to go nova, some visual change in x-ray production, swelling up in size, shrinking in size, or any other physical attribute?

By that token, the entire Galaxy center might have gone BOOM a couple of million years ago, and we wouldn't know about it.

This is nothing to get too concerned about really. If we as a life force are of a type that is to continue, we will figure out a way. If not, we will be "cleansed". This has to happen everywhere in the universe, that starts hyper nova. The gamma beam destroyes organic organisiums. Thats just how it goes. We have all read about caves and underground facilities. Perhaps the aliens the built them are keenly aware of these types of phenomenon and that's why they "hide" underground. Because these types of events are very hard to defend against. I would assume some will survive but it will not be a pleasant place to live, at least for several hundred years.

reply to post by eriktheawful


Really cool stuff Erik!! Love it.

This may be a dumb question, however I have to know.

Is it possible if and when this thing goes hyper-nova we may not get a direct blow but a glancing one to our Solar System? Is that scenario possible?

reply to post by eriktheawful


I saved the compliments to your presentation for this post.

reply to post by stutteringp0et


Wow... Really solid point. This could of have happened ages ago and we wouldn't even know it.

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by eriktheawful

 

Really cool stuff Erik!! Love it.

This may be a dumb question, however I have to know.

Is it possible if and when this thing goes hyper-nova we may not get a direct blow but a glancing one to our Solar System? Is that scenario possible?

Not really. The gamma rays are emitted in a jet from the poles. Sort of like a phaser from Star Trek.

They can expand, but the majority of the gamma rays will be in that jet.

S n F
Cool read and makes one think.

reply to post by MysterX


Right! Now you're understanding.

When we look at the sun as you noted, the light is 8 minutes old. If the sun blew up, we wouldn't know it for 8 minutes.

Indications of WR 104 is that it is close to the end of it's life. They think that (from the 8000 year old light we are seeing) from what they are seeing, it will die very soon. Could be today or 100 years from now.

That's actually very soon considering other canidates like Betelgeuse may have a million more years or so.

Part of the problem in knowing exactly when is having data from earlier supernovas. We don't have a lot other than from stars that are very far away. It's not something that happens with our local stars very often.

One of the most famous recorded supernovas created the Crab Nebula.

Chinese astronomers recorded seeing a supernova in 1054 AD. Of course they didn't know that's what it was, just that a very bright star had appeared where there had not been one, and after a small amount of time faded. The position of it in the sky was recorded by them.

Move up to more modern times and looking at those exact coordinates, you have the Crab Nebula with a spinning neutron star.

We know some things that we should be seeing when a star gets ready to die, but keep in mind many things that we think we know is based on theory since we don't get to observe close up a star that is just about ready to go supernova.

reply to post by eriktheawful

Even if it goes super nova starting tomorrow, it would take 8000 years for the gamma rays to reach Earth at light speed! That my friend is way way into the future. I would have probably re-incarnated a 100 times on Earth before I start need worrying.

So relax guys! Don't worry, be happy! Nothing to worry about dying from a Death Star's super ray just yet. This is just sensationalism at its best!

Cheers!

reply to post by eriktheawful


can they not look back in time via light (telescopes) and have already observed this supernova (hypernova)

they do claim to be able to see as far back as a million years before the big bang (i think)

The problem here, is that this is guess-work ... at the very best.

This is like reading something from the bible community, or other "religious" factions ... that still, in the year 2000 are praying to ancient entities, that in a cluster-fock-scenario could be described as serial-killing-rapists. We have for some magical reason, obtained technology, while at the same people who are producing it are about as stupid as a rock. Which is the why, behind the belief for "the gods were astronauts" sort of theory.

But what strikes me, is the fact that everybody appears to be running around with high tidings ... "LOOK, WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE". And everybody gathers around and says "WOW, AWESOME".

Gentlemen, we don't even have a clue about what life is ... it's purpose, or the purpose for the universe itself ... even a modest scientist, is forced to admit to his mirror that God is a fairy tale, and Chaos is the description that our knowledge is no more than a grain on the beach, washing away with the ocean tide.

The bottom line is ... we appear to be surrounded by death in the universe. But you'll have to ask yourself, wether that is because you are blind, or wether it's because you are really really really alone in the universe. And common sense, should alert you to the fact ... that you are most likely ... BLIND.

reply to post by maryhinge


I'm afraid that no one can see before the Big Bang, as there was nothing really to see.

The furthest back anyone can see is using radio telescopes at that's at about 300,000 years after the big bang, which is the "echo" of the expansion in the form of back ground radiation.

Prior to that....there's nothing to see. No light. No electromagnetic energy.

-----------------------------
On the subject of light, light years, observations and time:

Look at the moon the next chance you get. When you look up at the moon....that's where it was 1.5 seconds ago. That's because the light reflecting off the moon takes 1.5 seconds to get here, because the moon is around 250,000 miles away and light takes 1 second to go 186,000 miles.

If you were to be incredibly lucky and see a meteor strike the moon and the fireball it would have....the moment you see it, it actually happened 1.5 seconds before that.

When we look at Alpha Centauri in our telescopes, we are seeing the star as it looked. 4.3 years ago. Because it's 4.3 light years away.

When we look at Betelgeuse, we are actually seeing what that red giant looked like 300 years ago. Because it's 300 light years away. If we were watching and we suddenly see it explode into a super nova.....it means it actually did that 300 years ago.

Looking at WR 104, astronomers are pretty sure it's going to go hypernova within the next 100 years. But it's also 8,000 light years away.
That means: it already went hypernova almost 8,000 years ago.......it's already done this. We just haven't seen it do it yet because the light from that even takes 8,000 years to get here.

Think about the rovers on Mars. There is a reason why we are not sitting there with a joy stick driving it in real time, but instead have to send computer commands to it. It's because it takes radio waves (like light) almost 3.5 minutes to get there when the Earth and Mars are at their closest. It also takes that time to send back data. So if you were remotely driving the rover in real time, when you turned the wheels, it would take 7 minutes before you saw the wheels turned. And that's when our two planets are at their closest.

This thread made me think of an early warning sensor system for this type of event. First of all someone would need to invent a quantum entanglement communication device to instantly relay information. Then the sensors could be sent into deep space in strategic locations to give early warning back here on Earth. The distance in light minutes between Earth and the event would be the amount of warning potential in minutes. Even with an early warning, I don't know if a lot of lives could be saved by moving to the side of the planet not exposed or if the GRB event keeps shooting at us exposing both sides of the planet.

I've read or heard this type of event could have been the reason for mass extinctions in our past.

Of course inventing such a device and only having one working if it suddenly went dead could leave you wondering what happened to it or evacuating thousands because of a faulty device. I doubt millions could be saved but maybe our species could survive. I believe it takes about 50 years between a device being invented in the skunk works projects and the public hearing about it so maybe there are already some working devices. I'm speculating. There isn't much I can do but speculate about a GRB event.

Originally posted by eriktheawful
You and every living thing on the Earth were just blasted with a large amount of gamma rays. These gamma rays are bad to living organisms because, the keep cells from reproducing. This includes your intestines. You're ability to absorb food is going to stop.

Worst case? Only microbes deep in the Earth will survive this.

Except there's just one thing wrong with that scenario. Just as only half of the planet gets bathed in sunlight at a time, then only half of the planet would be affected by this gamma-ray burster. The half of the Earth facing the star when it's corona-wave reaches Earth. The other side of Earth wouldn't be affected at all except for the aftermath. The bulk of the Earth would block the gamma-rays from getting to the 'dark side of Earth' - the side away from the blast.

People always forget that in these 'doomsday scenarios'.

reply to post by eriktheawful

Indications of WR 104 is that it is close to the end of it's life. They think that (from the 8000 year old light we are seeing) from what they are seeing, it will die very soon. Could be today or 100 years from now.

So I don't understand how they could ever give a number. Looking at something 8,000 yrs.in the past they could never predict a time such as now-100 years from now, that makes no sense to me? So why even try giving a number?

Unless that is there is more they know, information that is not being shared. Something that has caused a rush to create genetically engineered foods that can survive something and storage of such seeds also.

Interesting though, but how do you know it has not been done. One particle in entanglement with one other particle would be enough. The particle near the event would have consequences that would be echoed at the same moment in your particle.

The weirdness, if you want to call it that, is the premise that the act of measurement of one actually defines both of them and so one might be thousands of miles away when you measure the first and the other instantly is converted, regardless of the distance between them, to the complement of the first. Action-at-a-distance that occurs faster than the speed of light?

quantumweird.wordpress.com...

Maybe they can look back in time to see what was there.
www.wired.com...

In the weird world of quantum physics, two linked particles can share a single fate, even when they’re miles apart. Now, two physicists have mathematically described how this spooky effect, called entanglement, could also bind particles across time.

Originally posted by orionthehunter
This thread made me think of an early warning sensor system for this type of event. First of all someone would need to invent a quantum entanglement communication device to instantly relay information. Then the sensors could be sent into deep space in strategic locations to give early warning back here on Earth. The distance in light minutes between Earth and the event would be the amount of warning potential in minutes. Even with an early warning, I don't know if a lot of lives could be saved by moving to the side of the planet not exposed or if the GRB event keeps shooting at us exposing both sides of the planet.

I've read or heard this type of event could have been the reason for mass extinctions in our past.

Of course inventing such a device and only having one working if it suddenly went dead could leave you wondering what happened to it or evacuating thousands because of a faulty device. I doubt millions could be saved but maybe our species could survive. I believe it takes about 50 years between a device being invented in the skunk works projects and the public hearing about it so maybe there are already some working devices. I'm speculating. There isn't much I can do but speculate about a GRB event.

edit on 9/6/13 by orionthehunter because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-6-2013 by Char-Lee because: (no reason given)

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