Public Atheist Monument Across from 10 Commandments

reply to post by windword


Again, Atheist activism/billboards etc -- is similar to the gay rights movement. It's about an oppressed minority "coming out of the closet". The visible activism (billboards etc) says there are more like you, and we are here to support you.

Countering religious dominance is essential. While the #1 goal of the American Atheist organization is absolute separation of church and state -- they have been increasing support activism.

Considering you can't be a witness in court in some states -- is one validation of the necessity.

REPEAT: atheist/atheism is a lack of belief descriptive only. It is not a verb, it has no action. It has no belief/dogma. What each individual atheist believes is called their "atheist philosophy".

Atheist Activism -- Activism and education are, first and foremost, about raising the profile of atheism and normalizing atheism in the public discourse. With our community projects, billboard campaigns, and educational resources, we encourage the millions of atheists who are "in the closet" to come out as atheists and be proud of embracing reality. www.atheists.org...

reply to post by Annee

Solon is the founder of Western democracy and the first man in history to articulate ideas of equal rights for all citizens, and though he did not go nearly as far in the latter as we have come today, Moses can claim no connection to either.

Exactly. That was I was trying to say! Thank you Annee!

Thanks for reminding us of Solon. I remember learning about this back in college, a looooooong time ago! I'm sure many have never heard of him or have never been made aware of our Greek, (not Roman) roots in democracy and civics.

I have only just learned of Richard Carrie recently, I like his research, and his take on history.

reply to post by windword


So you're saying that whomever erected that Christian monument had no right to do so?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


The Monument was a gift from the Men's Christian Fellowship to Brandon County. Brandon County was being sued for allowing it to be placed on public property.

American Atheists sued Bradford County last July, saying the Christian-sponsored monument in front of the county courthouse was a public endorsement of religion. In response, the county asked Community Men's Fellowship, the organization that sponsored the display, to take it down. But the fellowship replied by saying it had "prayerfully considered" the request and would not comply. The county and American Atheists went to a court-ordered mediation in March and settled upon the atheists getting their own monument.

I agree with the complaint and am okay with their settlement.

But, I think that the 10 Commandments have to no place in courthouses or public schools, as that would be seem to be a governmental endorsement of religion.

reply to post by windword

But, I think that the 10 Commandments have to no place in courthouses or public schools, as that would be seem to be a governmental endorsement of religion.

But we're okay with teaching the general tenets of Islam and Hinduism and Egyptian and Norse mythology and Aztec folklore and the Greek pantheon? Is this not government endorsement of paganism? It seems like every religion is allowed to be discussed in schools except for Christianity and Satanism. Why is that? Do you want your children to be ignorant? If there is something you fear or don't like, don't keep your children ignorant because of that. That's counter productive. Teach them everything about it so they understand.

Stupid, stupid, stupid. Either take EVERY BLASTED RELIGION out of public schools and leave our children that much more ignorant to appease our own idiotic vendettas, or educate our children for their sake in spite of our immature ways of dealing with alternate viewpoints.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I have a problem when the Bible, or any religious book or doctrine, is taught in public school as a source of true history, true science, such as creationism, or the source of morality. ethics and/or civics, given to us by God Almighty.

I am in favor of children learning about the cultures and the beliefs different people and societies.

There is a huge difference between teaching Greek mythology in school and teaching Christian religion. To be honest I wouldn’t mind if Christianity was taught as a mythology but if it was can you imagine the uproar from Christians. To them it isn’t a mythology it is fact or true history but if they could deal with Jesus figure being taught in say the same way Zeus or Poseidon are taught then I think that would be fine.

Originally posted by windword

I am in favor of children learning about the cultures and the beliefs different people and societies.

I agree.

If you research the Puritans, you will find they migrated south, and are (in part), the foundation for the extreme fundamental Christians in the Bible Belt. Also, in researching the Puritans you find the real truth/facts of why/how they migrated to America. They were not persecuted for religious belief, as most history teaches. They tried to force an exteme Christian controlled government in England (I think it was England).

Point being, they've tried to do the same thing in America. Fortunately, we had some very wise forefathers, who saw what was happening and made sure it could not happen here.

Therefore, Christianity being the dominate religion, with efforts to control our government, can not be allowed to permeate public education.

Exposing children to other cultures, which in some cases includes a belief, is an entirely different thing IMO.

Oops! Double post..

Sitting in a MCDONALD Playland on their WIFI.

Not exactly reliable.

reply to post by Annee

Also, in researching the Puritans you find the real truth/facts of why/how they migrated to America. They were not persecuted for religious belief, as most history teaches. They tried to force an exteme Christian controlled government in England (I think it was England).

Yes, it was England.

It's been a while since I heard the popular American fable about the "persecuted Puritans". I do remember it though from about the fourth grade.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by windword

 

So you're saying that whomever erected that Christian monument had no right to do so?

That is exactly what the sentiment is behind the attempt to remove it.

Atheists are not about intellectual freedom, they are about "think the way we do, we don't like you guys".

It is hate under a different guise is all.

Originally posted by GeisterFahrer

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by windword

 

So you're saying that whomever erected that Christian monument had no right to do so?

That is exactly what the sentiment is behind the attempt to remove it.

Atheists are not about intellectual freedom, they are about "think the way we do, we don't like you guys".

It is hate under a different guise is all.

Is about separation of church and state.

Emotion is not a part of separation of church and state.

Originally posted by GeisterFahrer

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by windword

 

So you're saying that whomever erected that Christian monument had no right to do so?

That is exactly what the sentiment is behind the attempt to remove it.

Atheists are not about intellectual freedom, they are about "think the way we do, we don't like you guys".

It is hate under a different guise is all.

No one is trying to stop this group, the "Men's Christian Fellowship", from expressing their beliefs or putting up billboards or monuments. They just need to do so on private property, not public property. Public property is owned by the people, ie the government, and the government doesn't endorse or promote any religion.

The 10 Commandments are a religious document that declares it is God's final word. It isn't.

reply to post by GeisterFahrer


It is strange to me that you would accuse atheists of trying to force others to think the way they do when that is exactly what the monument of the 10 commandments is doing. I think you have some serious misconceptions on this issue. Religion has no place in government at least it is not supposed to. Our forefathers were explicit on that issue.

On top of that 3 out of 10 commandments are not what I would consider an accurate representation of what this country was founded on. You know eastern cultures had those same 3 principles as well but you don’t see people claiming that our country was founded on eastern mythology.

reply to post by Grimpachi

It is strange to me that you would accuse atheists of trying to force others to think the way they do when that is exactly what the monument of the 10 commandments is doing.

I don't see the monument featuring the 10 commandments "trying" to do anything except honor a religion that a significant percentage of our nation follows and the rest certainly recognize and acknowledge. Much like observing the influence of the English language. I don't see any harm in it, seeing as how you are more than free to not practice Judaism or Christianity, and certainly free to speak against it even. If you are allowed to publicly decry Christianity, then I don't see why they can't erect a monument in the spirit of their beliefs.

I think you have some serious misconceptions on this issue. Religion has no place in government at least it is not supposed to. Our forefathers were explicit on that issue.

It's not the government, just as a public park is not government. A number of local parks here have statues and plaques and monuments honoring the fallen soldiers of almost every war our nation has been a part of. And yet I don't see anyone griping about the government exhibiting its support for loss of human life. If you don't like it, don't look at it. Clearly, the monument hasn't changed any policies or directly influenced legislation and educational curriculum. Any influence is happening with or without that monument in existence.

I support the erection of the atheist monument, but I don't support the defamation, ridicule, or protest of a Christian monument. At the very least, such displays are sanctioned as a freedom of expression.

On top of that 3 out of 10 commandments are not what I would consider an accurate representation of what this country was founded on. You know eastern cultures had those same 3 principles as well but you don’t see people claiming that our country was founded on eastern mythology.

And this is justification for removing or demeaning the Christian monument? Just because you disagree doesn't mean you should destroy something. I thought this was one of the problems atheists had with Christians? Destroying anything they don't like? Demeaning or ridiculing it because they disagree? How is this any different?

Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by GeisterFahrer

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by windword

 

So you're saying that whomever erected that Christian monument had no right to do so?

That is exactly what the sentiment is behind the attempt to remove it.

Atheists are not about intellectual freedom, they are about "think the way we do, we don't like you guys".

It is hate under a different guise is all.

No one is trying to stop this group, the "Men's Christian Fellowship", from expressing their beliefs or putting up billboards or monuments. They just need to do so on private property, not public property. Public property is owned by the people, ie the government, and the government doesn't endorse or promote any religion.

The 10 Commandments are a religious document that declares it is God's final word. It isn't.

The argument of separation of church and state comes from Thomas Jefferson - nothing in the Constitution bans anyone from their right to free speech on the public square.

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by GeisterFahrer

 

It is strange to me that you would accuse atheists of trying to force others to think the way they do when that is exactly what the monument of the 10 commandments is doing. I think you have some serious misconceptions on this issue. Religion has no place in government at least it is not supposed to. Our forefathers were explicit on that issue.

On top of that 3 out of 10 commandments are not what I would consider an accurate representation of what this country was founded on. You know eastern cultures had those same 3 principles as well but you don’t see people claiming that our country was founded on eastern mythology.

Censorship of speech is an attempt to silence dissent of a particular group. No one has attempted to silence the atheist POV in public schools - but what about religious people?

hmmmm

reply to post by windword

No one is trying to stop this group, the "Men's Christian Fellowship", from expressing their beliefs or putting up billboards or monuments. They just need to do so on private property, not public property. Public property is owned by the people, ie the government, and the government doesn't endorse or promote any religion.

The 10 Commandments are a religious document that declares it is God's final word. It isn't.

Would you say the same if an atheist monument or billboard were placed on public ground? Is this really about legal red tape, or your personal feelings towards religion?

reply to post by GeisterFahrer


The Judge agreed with you, and left it up to mediation. The alternative, atheist monument is the compromise.

But the 10 Commandments in public schools or in courtrooms is a step too far. IMO

reply to post by windword

But the 10 Commandments in public schools or in courtrooms is a step too far. IMO

But we can teach the tenets of almost every other religion, right? I mean, Hinduism and Nordic and Aztec and Greek and Roman religions are all taught, right? We have no problem mentioning Zeus or Odin or Loki or Quetzlcoatl or Shiva, right? So what's wrong with including Christianity in the cultural curriculum?