EDL - Tommy Robinson on the brutal murder of a British soldier

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I did go a little far and it was unnecessary.
Pointing out your clear lack of understanding once was enough.

I'm just not sure the EDL does.

I am glad you admit you are not sure. Remember that when making sweeping generalizations about this or any other group your political ideology may collide with.

reply to post by Kantzveldt
I'm surprised that you see things this way as your ancient history threads are often excellent and well-informed.

In my opinion, people like Robinson and the EDL mischaracterise whole populations on the basis of crimes and propaganda from minorities. They argue that Pakistani pedophiles are representative of all Muslims. They take the view that because some London-based hate-preacher is Muslim, all of them are the same.

You're an intelligent man with some idea of history and yet this is how you see things? Hasn't history shown us that tarring all 'others' with the same brush is an act of ignorance and/or political expediency?

Whether it was the 'Red Scare' of '50s USA or the witch-hunts of old Europe, we look back and shake our heads that the fear-mongers had such an impact.

Here we are in 2013 and people want to hold to account a population of Muslims for what they *might* think based on what a small minority say and do. In reality, the majority of any culture, race or population just get on with their lives and don't wish harm to their neighbours.

When we set off to divide ourselves from one another, it polarises people and increases the hostility to the point where it goes wrong.

That isn't to say that many countries aren't dealing with genuine issues of immigration. They are. What it means is that, as long as the extremists shout loudest, the problems can't be dealt with maturely and especially not reasonably.

Originally posted by thegoatboy
don't be fooled by this racist scumbag.

i watched a documentary about him before.

he was all nice to the camera, and when he was out drinking with his buddies he was
just a racist pr*ck to any coloured person he met.

How can he say oh these guys get away with it when the rapists in question were
arrested and sent to prison?

a football hooligan who is not ashamed of his violent past

association with the BNP.

I'd rather see people like him kicked out of britain that the 99.9% of decent Muslims.

I saw the documentary you refer to.
What I saw was a man under incredible pressure and out of his depth (how quickly his organisation grew)
He turned to alchol to deal with it and made a tit of himself in front of an investigative journalist who had
waited patiently until he messed up.

reply to post by Kandinsky

In my opinion, people like Robinson and the EDL mischaracterise whole populations on the basis of crimes and propaganda from minorities. They argue that Pakistani pedophiles are representative of all Muslims. They take the view that because some London-based hate-preacher is Muslim, all of them are the same.

Its those three words again "In my opinion"

From what I have read they use muslim as a general discription of erm muslims and they do catogorise the terrorists, peodophiles, radicals, extremist muslims, but in my opinion they generally use the term Islamic as a prefix. The few muslims, I know refer to themselves as muslims, not Islamics.

reply to post by Kandinsky



Well thanks, and yes i take an interest in and am appreciative of many ancient cultures and peoples,, and will always support the right to self determination and religious cultural expression of any ethnic group, including Muslims.


You're right when you say that problems can be inflated and exploited by those following their own agenda, and indeed perhaps that's the case with Tommy Robinson and the EDL, however he is the only one saying, and his group demonstrating, an anger and concern that many indigenous English working class share, from the MSM all we get is denial, rhetoric and apologetics..and a situation that only gets worse.


I have a great deal of personal experience of the problems, i live in a North West town that is around 40% Islamic, and rising, and that has seen many many cases of very young girls having been exploited by Pakistani grooming gangs, who run the drug trade in this town through their importation of Heroin, and thus have all the money and trappings neccesary to ensnare the naive...they are becoming increasingly violent at the street level with this.




As an intelligent woman there are large areas of this town were it would be insane for me to walk, particularly at night, and even in the town centre you will generally, if you are a woman, soon attract a tail of young groups of Muslims who will follow and pass suggestive comments and insults...they have no respect for any woman that is not a Muslim and covered.


It isn't good to feel contempt and intimidation from those people, the women will generally not even disdain to recognise your existence, if you feel this is an issue the Left will kindly inform you that you are a vile repulsive knuckle dragging racist bigot and possibly in league with the Devil/Hitler...and that you should endure until the Multi Cultural paradise is fully realised.


But i have my doubts lol.

reply to post by Kantzveldt


Luton Air Port lol

sorry I really cant watch all of that video Ive seen it before and well..........

I have to say that if they are not happy here and think an Islamic state is what would make them happy, then........
it really isnt rocket science

Originally posted by Kantzveldt
reply to post by Kandinsky

 

edit on 29-5-2013 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)

How anyone, left or right can come away from watching that documentary with anything other
than a full understanding of why EDL was born is beyond me.

That could be a street in every town and city 20-30 years from now.

Originally posted by LordDerpingtonSmythe

Originally posted by Kantzveldt
reply to post by Kandinsky

 

edit on 29-5-2013 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)

How anyone, left or right can come away from watching that documentary with anything other
than a full understanding of why EDL was born is beyond me.

That could be a street in every town and city 20-30 years from now.

The way things are going do you really think it will be that long!
George Galloways respect party is a real concern

reply to post by Kantzveldt

You're right when you say that problems can be inflated and exploited by those following their own agenda, and indeed perhaps that's the case with Tommy Robinson and the EDL, however he is the only one saying, and his group demonstrating, an anger and concern that many indigenous English working class share, from the MSM all we get is denial, rhetoric and apologetics..and a situation that only gets worse.

Believe it or not, I share some of your concerns. I'm also white working class living in the NW; not 'indigenous' as that term has been hijacked by the racists to draw a line between those who 'belong' and those who don't.

I have a great deal of personal experience of the problems, i live in a North West town that is around 40% Islamic, and rising, and that has seen many many cases of very young girls having been exploited by Pakistani grooming gangs, who run the drug trade in this town through their importation of Heroin, and thus have all the money and trappings neccesary to ensnare the naive...they are becoming increasingly violent at the street level with this.

Perception isn't always reality. That isn't to say that I doubt your experience only that I can't think of a NW town with such a high % of Muslims; Blackburn's up in the ~20% area.

The grooming gangs is something that the police need to get more active on. They're out there and remain predatory. Part of my job indirectly involves encounters with these people so I also have personal knowledge that they're out there. The thing is, hate isn't too strong a word for how I feel about them, but I have to keep reminding myself that not everyone in their communities know about or endorse what they do. As such, we should be focusing on these animals and not representing entire communities as 'animals.'

Whenever you see me posting against BNP or EDL proponents, it isn't because I support endless immigration. It's because I oppose mindless hatred and that's as big a problem with them as it is with the Muslim extremists.

I apologise for calling you a 'he.' Seems like everyone's male on ATS. The type of experience you describe is something I know about; there's a documentary by a German student that shows an identical situation. Once more, is the solution street violence? Is it deporting swathes of people for the crimes of the few? Or should the police be nailing the behaviour as public sexual harassment?

A lot of Brits have genuine issues about cultures clashing and immigration. At the same time, the same issues provide justifications for people who are already racist extremists wanting repatriation for non-indigenous. I can't speak for Robinson, but it's pretty clear that some from the far-right have been as guilty of exploiting the symbolism of Rigby's death as the two killers. EDL is a platform for some of those people.

Originally posted by Kantzveldt
Noting the threads involving an old video of a drunken EDL supporter appearing and the shocking revelation that Muslims could well be human as they share tea and biscuits and thus recent events are simply much ado about nothing, i'm surprised that people don't simply discuss what the leader of the EDL himself has to say regarding his position

What is there to discuss? We already know what Stephen Yaxley-Lennon's views are. They're not going to become magically reasonable overnight.

reply to post by Kandinsky




Well i'm only indigenous to the time of the Flemish coming over with the Normans, a decent and honest invasion

You nailed the town, but the percentage figures generally quoted for it are for the Borough, which includes outlying villages and areas almost all English, within the actual town the figure is more as i suggest.

It is the case that most social problems aren't caused by the most devout and practising Muslims, though they are the most liable to be caught up in political/Islamic extremist ideology, the general social malaise is caused by those caught between two radically different cultures.


The saddest thing is because the media covers up for them and doesn't fully expose the horrendous attitudes and forms of behaviour they indulge in, they feel strong and untouchable, and consider English society weak because they are incapable of protecting their own, and destined to collapse....in other words avoidance of issues and confrontation encourages them.

Again, this persona of strength and confidence that they project, means they have no fear or shame in the manner that they will pursue girls and the way in which they treat them, and the naive are taken in by this seeming strength.


The ways of the EDL are not my ways, but i think they have a genuine point as a single issue protest group
.

reply to post by Kantzveldt


He, himself isnt Racist but many followers are, which is why EDL will always be labelled as Racist and why you will always get the UAF defending 'Muslims' . i actually think UAF dont know why they are protesting IMO.

Its against R~adicalization and Mosques which support Radicalization! People like Hamza and Abu Choudrey!

Tommy actually speaks sense when it comes to kicking those people out and stopping the Threat of an 'Islamic State' within England.

You can tell the guys not educated very well but everything he is saying is spot on in my opinion!

Originally posted by Kantzveldt
reply to post by Kandinsky

WOW! Being I am over the pond in the colonies as you say LOL I have had no clue it was this extreme in England. We hear so very little news about that here in the States about it and certainly nothing like this is shown on our TV (telly...wink).

But in all seriousness, I was a little aware but not to this level! They do not seem to want to integrate into British society. I mean no offense by this but I tell you there is a reason the US keeps strong immigration policies. It seems to me here (In the States) at least a large percentage of the Muslims have integrated and are for the most part happy. Just the opposite seems true in England (And France as I am being made aware...). Is it that populations have reached a critical point that they have not reached here?

Commenting on this video I do not see tolerance from the Muslim community in her home town. I also cannot fathom the social conditioning that makes women buy this tripe to think a woman is seductive and underdressed unless she is wearing a stifling hot black Burqa.

It oddly reminds me of the Crusades only in this case this is in reverse. There are several ways to invade and conquer without becoming violent or making war. One of them is by immigration, sedition and increasing the invading population until they reach a majority. Then change the laws and overwhelm them with shear numbers before the indigenous people rise up and fight back...




All of this has happened before and it will all happen again...

Did you hear the gibberish directed toward Stacey Dooley in the above video "Put some more clothes on! Who are you trying to seduce!". Someone wants to strip that ninja!

And if that somehow appears racist that's ok going along the lines of what those Muslim protesters seem to be chanting.

Oh wait, its not ok to have a pop at another religion unless you are of Muslim descent. In which case it seems to be a requirement!

Live and let live is my motto. Why cant they realise this and then everyone can get back to playing nice. LoL