Built to Break, a world constructed on unregulated capitalism.

Originally posted by Tranceopticalinclined What are your ideas for fixing the future?

Learn how things work and fix things yourself.
You know that big flat screen that fails two days after the warranty runs out? It's a tiny capacitor that you need to replace. Now you can

A) do what they want and buy another flat screen TV

B) Learn how to find to faulty part, go down to Radio Shack and spend 10$, buy a new one and fix it yourself and save the price of a new TV.

Do you really think everything stops functioning just when the warranty runs out by accident?
Noooo it is sooo planned. Thwart them and fix the pieces of crap, with a little tinkering even a piece of crap will last forever.

Have you noticed that your computer stops working after a year yet the ATMs that were made in 1980 never fail? Think you are not being viewed as an ATM yourself?

reminds me of the American cancer society charity....in business for 100 years, 937 million dollars in contributions for 2012 alone, the CEO made 2.4 million dollars for 2009-2010, 35% of funds for overhead and fundraising......and not one cure for cancer...that's a lot of research time and money for no results. when they call or send me contribution letters, I simply hang up, or throw them away. .... they have no incentive to find a cure, thousands of people would lose their jobs, fundraising would come to a halt, tax incentives would go away.....
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by jimmyx


I always thought of non profit to mean just that non profit, you shouldn't run a non profit and expect to make a living from it, it's NON PROFIT, so why the hell do we allow NON PROFITS to PROFIT?

reply to post by Tranceopticalinclined

I somewhat agree with you. Maybe a lot, not sure.

It's possible to fix computer circuitry or power supplies, but it requires a lot of knowledge. There're limits to it, of course. And if you try, you'll void your warranty. As for automobiles, I'm not sure how that works. But I do know that there're more electronics in vehicles. I'm sure companies could patent the tools they use and not sell them elsewhere. For example, if you buy a pre-built PC, many of them will have manufacturer-specific cases. These cases may not strictly follow the standard ATX or Micro-ATX specs. This limits their lifespan because instead of reusing them, you're forced to scrap them. They also might have unique case assemblies that you cannot dismantle without the tools that're used by the company that makes it (and not coincidentally can repair it). One way to get around this is to only buy standard cases/hardware and to build the PC yourself.

I know there's an issue with patents. It does somewhat stymy innovation. At the same time, especially in this information age, people need to be able to protect what they make. The nature of a book, for example, does not change when it goes from being printed to being fully electronic. It's still, by its nature, information. An author should be able to protect their work. On the other hand, how far this goes can be a problem. For example, if an author says you cannot name any of your characters Joey because his main character is named Joey then this would be silly, no?

Look at kitchen-ware and 3d-printing. It's only a matter of time before people are printing their own cups and bowls and utensils. Good lock stopping them from printing what they like. What're they going to do, force everybody to purchase printers that have built-in patent protection? Are they going to send SS troops to each home and search it for patent infringement? Are they going to force printer makers to require online connection so that what it prints is verified.

We have to hold a balance between individual property rights and overall innovation needs.

Originally posted by Hopechest
It would be called technology.

If you would prefer to drive the horse and buggy that you can fix by finding sticks on the side of the road I'm sure the Amish would welcome you with open arms.

The rest of us however like to progress.

No.

You missed the OP's point entirely. F in reading comprehension and F in self reliance as well.

I'll go sesame street for you: There was a time when you bought something and could fix it yourself without having to go to a third party to do so. Now, you can't. Now, you're dependent on others.

If that sits well with you then I guess you're a great dependent-class type person.

Me? I like to be self reliant.

Originally posted by Hopechest


There is no product on the market that you cannot buy a good version of that will last.

Show me one and I will politely bow to your wisdom.

1972 Chevy truck. It's not that it won't break, but I can fix it without having to go take it to a dealer so they can unseal the engine. I can re solder an op amp, replace a chip or a hard drive, rewire my house, replace things on my own. I like it that way.

Where do you live? In "Throw Away Land?"

You may now bow. Deeply. And after the bow? stop talking. You're just embarrassing yourself.

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz

yes, thank you for admitting this fact. early ipods were made with unremovable batteries designed to fail rather rapidly, forcing people to buy another one or get it fixed. this is an example of them artificially increasing sales due to intentional flaws in the product.

microsoft did something similar with the 360. they were built to overheat, and in time "red ring". preferably outside the warranty, forcing people to get another one.

Most ignorant thing I have ever heard. Designed to fail early thereby damaging the perception of quality in a product at roll out...and you say it was intentional? You obviously have no experience whatsoever to blow something like that out your a$$. When rolling out a new product companies take great care to make sure that the product is up to snuff out the gate. The problem comes in (specially with software) when release dates are published early and then when the inevitable happens (Murphy's law) the product becomes rushed and can become a black eye. Poor quality at new product rollout has caused some companies to go bankrupt.

Get some experience and actual knowledge regarding manufacturing processes and practices and how that works with marketing before you display utter ignorance.

Admitting the main point of my previous post? Did you bother to read it all to understand how what you posted above is the most ignorant thing you possibly could have posted? Or did you stop reading at that point.....?

Originally posted by tangonine

Originally posted by Hopechest


There is no product on the market that you cannot buy a good version of that will last.

Show me one and I will politely bow to your wisdom.

1972 Chevy truck. It's not that it won't break, but I can fix it without having to go take it to a dealer so they can unseal the engine. I can re solder an op amp, replace a chip or a hard drive, rewire my house, replace things on my own. I like it that way.

Where do you live? In "Throw Away Land?"

You may now bow. Deeply. And after the bow? stop talking. You're just embarrassing yourself.

edit on 31-5-2013 by tangonine because: (no reason given)

edit on 31-5-2013 by tangonine because: (no reason given)

I can agree with you to a certain degree...but since you are talking about a 72 pickup (I graduated from high school in '72) you must also know that at 100k miles most vehicles of the day were POS. You had to replace parts constantly, specially points in that old system. Buy a new car now and chances are you will not have a single ignition problem at all for 100k miles. Now days it is nothing to see cars that are well maintained last 300k miles...something that just didnt happen back in the day.
I spent many an hour with my head under the hood...while there is a certain amount of nostalgia involved with me and the old cars, if given a chance to purchase a new car built by the old standards and buying one of today's models I will take today's any day of the year.

Originally posted by Tranceopticalinclined
reply to post by jimmyx

 

I always thought of non profit to mean just that non profit, you shouldn't run a non profit and expect to make a living from it, it's NON PROFIT, so why the hell do we allow NON PROFITS to PROFIT?

simple actually....

If you run a COMPANY that is non-profit you have employees to pay...unless you want to depend strictly on free labor...if you pay, and then show no profit after all your EXPENSES are deducted (including LABOR costs) then you are operating with zero profit. Ergo: Non-Profit!

Does your pastor or priest preach his sermons for free? No.... Do the people that are full time working for charities do it for free? Most often, no. Does the whole of the Catholic church (bishops, cardinals, pope etc) do this for free? NO

Originally posted by Hopechest
reply to post by CranialSponge

 

Last time I checked you could still buy those products somewhere.

Nobody is forcing you to buy the new gadgets.

That would be your choice.

Sponge was just saying that you shouldn't have to pay for a top dollar idem and have it break down in several years. The truth is they are making junk out there under and calling it high end.

Originally posted by bbracken677

Originally posted by tangonine

Originally posted by Hopechest


There is no product on the market that you cannot buy a good version of that will last.

Show me one and I will politely bow to your wisdom.

1972 Chevy truck. It's not that it won't break, but I can fix it without having to go take it to a dealer so they can unseal the engine. I can re solder an op amp, replace a chip or a hard drive, rewire my house, replace things on my own. I like it that way.

Where do you live? In "Throw Away Land?"

You may now bow. Deeply. And after the bow? stop talking. You're just embarrassing yourself.

edit on 31-5-2013 by tangonine because: (no reason given)

edit on 31-5-2013 by tangonine because: (no reason given)

I can agree with you to a certain degree...but since you are talking about a 72 pickup (I graduated from high school in '72) you must also know that at 100k miles most vehicles of the day were POS. You had to replace parts constantly, specially points in that old system. Buy a new car now and chances are you will not have a single ignition problem at all for 100k miles. Now days it is nothing to see cars that are well maintained last 300k miles...something that just didnt happen back in the day.
I spent many an hour with my head under the hood...while there is a certain amount of nostalgia involved with me and the old cars, if given a chance to purchase a new car built by the old standards and buying one of today's models I will take today's any day of the year.

Yes that is one are where much has changed.

What no one seems to understand is Branding...companies like Sony, Ford, even Target (used to be Walmart was big on quality and customer service, when Sam was still around) put much stock in their "Brand" which they prefer to have associated with quality. So when some big quality issue surfaces, particularly on a new product line, heads roll...

Do y'all actually think that Ford or Sony or any professional manufacturing outfit tests their components and if they last longer than they should they return them to their supplier??? Really? lol

I toured a GE plant that made fridges...their quality testing was amazing. They would vibrate the hell out of x number of machines a day (a specific percentage taken as a representative sampling) and then tear it apart to find what failed, if the fridge did fail. If the same component fails during these tests, they make changes to prevent that from happening. They had a machine that would drop fridges 10 ft so they could see what would fail. Does that sound like something a company would do if they WANTED their products to fail? (absolute ignorance).

Anyone with the smallest experience in a manufacturing environment understands what an absurd notion planned obsolescence is. Anyone with a lick of sense and experience in the real world understands the need for quality and how difficult it can be to maintain at high levels...it affects consumer perception, it affects market share, it affects profitability. If you produce crap that is being returned, or crap that doesnt last as long as Company X's products then guess what...Company X (provided they are priced competitively) will gain market share. That means success in the corporate world for those of you who have no freaking clue.

reply to post by bbracken677
Every thing you say is true but not always the case.

Most of what is made in todays world is falsely sold as built tough items or evevn forgot the scamming, they have folks who seek out Cheaply made products.

I rent, and the more I live in this place I notice more things breaking, from what I couldn't of broken as a kid, ( now if that doesn't seem odd, then you don't know me as a kid, I was Mr Destructo ) but now these things like DOORS even breaking and finding they are made from pressed wood chips glued together, with strategically placed pressed wood planks in a cheap honeycomb fashion leaving much of the door hollow. I looked up the cost of these Hollow, pressed wood doors, Guess how much? 180.00 dollars... Yes cheapest interior door is 180.00, not very cheap considering it's a door for the inside of your home.

Now no one is forcing you of course, is the common knowledge and goto line for most, but think about this. If this isn't regulated, your kids and theirs afterwards will be forced by lack of better service being promoted to you the consumer.

We need to stand up for consumer rights.

we don't have / haen't had unregulated capitalism- has anyone checked western statute books

reply to post by Credenceskynyrd


Unregulated in regards to most decisions are done in private leaving only what they want to be seen be seen. When you make shady deals you won't want a lot of attention focused on the fact you are trying to build an item that rips off the consumer and creates profit for you the company.

Most companies aren't out to make the next big thing, they have it, they want to make the next big thing, the next biggest profit maker by making it the thing that needs the most parts to replace, to be made with cheap items but told they are expensive.

Originally posted by Tranceopticalinclined
reply to post by Credenceskynyrd

 

Unregulated in regards to most decisions are done in private leaving only what they want to be seen be seen. When you make shady deals you won't want a lot of attention focused on the fact you are trying to build an item that rips off the consumer and creates profit for you the company.

Most companies aren't out to make the next big thing, they have it, they want to make the next big thing, the next biggest profit maker by making it the thing that needs the most parts to replace, to be made with cheap items but told they are expensive.

the regulations are public domain

reply to post by Credenceskynyrd


By people you and I will never vote into employment. We don't make those choices if we did we wouldn't have this issue of Items built to break for profit of companies.

Public Domain is just a nice way of saying it should be public but its out of their Domain. It's like a hidden joke.