Simple question re: homosexuality

reply to post by ANOK

Dear ANOK,

I'm replying to you before Darth_Prime, because his is more challenging and will require more effort to respond to satisfactorily.

Why would the definition of marriage have to change?

Because, if you want the laws changed, you'll have to change the definitions in the laws, not in a dictionary which simply is recording an alternative definition which is becoming popular. Both the laws and the majority of citizens respond to the word "Marriage," by itself, as one man and one woman.

Why don't you explain why one section of society should be denied the same rights as another?

because the law has always held that people in dissimilar situations may be treated differently. Felons are treated differently in the law than non-felons, elected officials have to file financial reports which citizens needn't, etc. the list is very long.

Other than your religious objections. What LEGAL reason is there for denying right to anybody?

Perhaps the easiest question of them all. The legal reason for denying rights is that that's the way the laws are written and the Supreme Court hasn't yet overturned those laws.

And if they are being denied why are you, as a CHRISTIAN, not fighting for their rights?

I don't believe that gay marriage is a right. Of course, my position is a little more complex than that, but that's basically why.

What does the Bible teach, to hate what makes you uncomfortable or to love your neighbour AS YOURSELF? And that would be regardless of race, class, religion, or sexual orientation (it's not a sexual choice)Look up Matthew 22:39. I believe 'love they neighbor' is in the Bible around 8 times? I'm sure it doesn't say 'love thy neighbour, unless they're gay'.

You may not believe it, but I love you and all but one of the ATS posters. (It's a failing of mine that I haven't forgiven him yet.)

It's a good job for you we don't count sins instead of stars eh?

Somebody's counting stars? Only God can know my sins, and the list is so long I can barely stand under the shame. I only get through because I can rely on His Forgiveness.

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by ANOK
What LEGAL reason is there for denying rights to anybody?

LEGAL is what we create.

We can write anything down. Heck, we can say man and beast can form unions, and call them marriage. Bring your goat spouse to the party, all welcome.

It can all be done at the stroke of the pen.

Why should anyone be denied their right to be with their true love? Even if that's a goat?

Everyone should have their civil right to love. Whose business is it, anyway, how I love?

How does it affect you, if I want to marry a goat?

reply to post by SQUEALER


Is the Goat capable of consent?? If not you are forcing it to marry against it's will and probably a rapist...?

Originally posted by SQUEALER

Originally posted by ANOK
What LEGAL reason is there for denying rights to anybody?

LEGAL is what we create.

We can write anything down. Heck, we can say man and beast can form unions, and call them marriage. Bring your goat spouse to the party, all welcome.

It can all be done at the stroke of the pen.

Why should anyone be denied their right to be with their true love? Even if that's a goat?

Everyone should have their civil right to love. Whose business is it, anyway, how I love?

How does it affect you, if I want to marry a goat?

All I can say is

I mean really? How do we make the jump from two consenting adults of legal sexual age marrying to goats?

Besides, what happens when the goat runs away with another man? Who gets custody of the goat people children beings?

Your argument is just plain stupid

reply to post by charles1952


You obviously didn't pay attention to my reply. So thinking it is easier to reply to is just another one of your illusions.

The definition of marriage doesn't have to change, because it already includes same-sex, as I pointed out.

But wait, you mean your definition, don't you?

If you understood that the church doesn't own marriage, or it's definition, you would realise why nothing actually has to change, other than another segment of society getting equal civil rights as tax paying citizens.

James 1:26

"If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless."

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX
I'm here because everyone's having a hay-day thread-jumping me right now, and I'm replying. I didn't intend for everyone to get so butthurt over that little comment I made.

butthurt? Really, an anal rape joke?

Stay classy.

reply to post by captaintyinknots

Its not that I dont agree with it that makes it bigoted.

Oh, so only YOUR opinions are facts, but mine are bigoted and wrong. Whoopsie.

This aint the schoolyard. Aside from that, if we want to talk about ya, we'll do it in private messages

You may as well be in the school yard, then. I don't overestimate how mature anyone can be.

Unfortunately, as Ive already said, it isnt just politics. As much as you try to ignore it, there is far more at play here.

I was referring to one simple thing, not all the discrimination and foul play that's attached to it.

To claim that these are not life or death issues to some is, indeed, clueless. Nothing baseless about it, and it was a description of your knowledge of the situation, not 'name-calling'.

Your opinion.

Oh... but your opinions are facts. Excuse me.

Scary? Not so much. As for bigot, well, Ive said my piece, Ill let everyone else judge for themselves.

Kay.

Never once said I didnt like them. I said it is foolish to tell others what should be more important.

And I said it was stupid to consider these issues more important than life and death issues.

So what makes your opinions factual, and mine invalid?

And yet, here you are defending them, all the way to backing away from them...

Wrong. Just defending from a heckler.

Stay in school.

Oh, what? School is what's gonna save everyone?

So you weren't here telling people what should be more important to them? Oops, theres that hypocrisy again.

I feel that what I stated was a fact, not an opinion. And even then, aren't you doing the same thing to me?

At this point, I simply dont have the energy to continue with this silliness. Consider yourself released from whatever bonds you feel are keeping you here. I will not reply to you again.....im getting dizzy from all of this round and round.

Fair enough. Agree to strongly disagree.

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX
I'm here because everyone's having a hay-day thread-jumping me right now, and I'm replying. I didn't intend for everyone to get so butthurt over that little comment I made.

butthurt? Really, an anal rape joke?

Stay classy.

That wasn't intentional.

But thanks for pointing it out to me. Made my morning.

reply to [url= by captaintyinknots[/url]


lol....fear is the only logical reason?
and being anti-gay automatically makes one gay?

this thread is ridiculous- people patting themselves on the back and preaching to the choir.

heterosexual = materialistic (DNA-wise)
homosexual = spiritual being given in to the material world
celibate/impotent = spiritual being not of this world

homo makes celibate look bad

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX
I'm here because everyone's having a hay-day thread-jumping me right now, and I'm replying. I didn't intend for everyone to get so butthurt over that little comment I made.

butthurt? Really, an anal rape joke?

Stay classy.

That wasn't intentional.

But thanks for pointing it out to me. Made my morning.

It makes your morning to unintentionally perpetuate rape culture in our society? I might have thought our treatment of rape would be one of the things you thought might be more important than "the gays", seeing as people get physically hurt by it, and that seems to be your big thing.

I am beginning to lean toward the idea that maybe you are just topic trolling or being argumentative for the sake of looking edgy, because after having given even the cursory look at the stuff you post all over the internet, it seems pretty much your MO.

reply to post by SQUEALER


Squealer - thanks for you for your response to my conclusions. I especially was affected by your quote from the Bible. thanks, John

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX
I'm here because everyone's having a hay-day thread-jumping me right now, and I'm replying. I didn't intend for everyone to get so butthurt over that little comment I made.

butthurt? Really, an anal rape joke?

Stay classy.

That wasn't intentional.

But thanks for pointing it out to me. Made my morning.

It makes your morning to unintentionally perpetuate rape culture in our society? I might have thought our treatment of rape would be one of the things you thought might be more important than "the gays", seeing as people get physically hurt by it, and that seems to be your big thing.

I am beginning to lean toward the idea that maybe you are just topic trolling or being argumentative for the sake of looking edgy, because after having given even the cursory look at the stuff you post all over the internet, it seems pretty much your MO.

That's just your opinion about my personality. I am an edgy, slightly offensive person in general. Not just on this topic, either.

But don't mistake me, I'm not arguing just to argue. I'm only responding to people who replied to my comment, which, again, was not intended to offend anyone.

And yes, I see humor in the word "butthurt" on a homosexuality thread.

I don't go around raping people. I'm not hurting anyone.

I'm entitled to a sense of humor, though.

Like I said, agree to strongly disagree.

Originally posted by Truth_Hz
reply to post by SQUEALER

 

Is the Goat capable of consent?? If not you are forcing it to marry against it's will and probably a rapist...?

Yes. The Goat consented. It said "Baaaaa". And didn't run away. I understand the Goat dialect. I can provide translation services "for a reasonable fee" at the wedding ceremony, for those who can't speak Goatlang.

reply to post by SQUEALER

LEGAL is what we create.

This is true, but if you're being honest, there are certain things that factor into laws, they are not just willy-nilly.

We can write anything down. Heck, we can say man and beast can form unions, and call them marriage. Bring your goat spouse to the party, all welcome.

This is exactly what I was getting at with the previous sentence. There is a uniform agreement that consent is one of the base lines when making laws about sex. It almost ALWAYS starts with consent.

It can all be done at the stroke of the pen.

It is nowhere near this simplistic.

Why should anyone be denied their right to be with their true love? Even if that's a goat?

If you can prove that the goat consents, then you shouldnt be denied.

Everyone should have their civil right to love. Whose business is it, anyway, how I love? How does it affect you, if I want to marry a goat?

The thing that makes this a completely irrelevant comparison, again, is consent. It you can prove that the goat gives its consent, then by all means, have at it.

Its funny, though. I cant help but always notice that for some reason, these threads always bring out animal fetishists. Its odd, really. But again, if thats what you're into, and you can prove that the goat gives its consent, then by all means, have at it.

Careful, though. I hear goats kick rather hard.

reply to post by IandEye

lol....fear is the only logical reason?

Ive yet to see another one presented...and notice you dont offer one either....

and being anti-gay automatically makes one gay?

I never said anything of the sort.

this thread is ridiculous- people patting themselves on the back and preaching to the choir.

And yet, here you are.....

heterosexual = materialistic (DNA-wise) homosexual = spiritual being given in to the material world celibate/impotent = spiritual being not of this world homo makes celibate look bad

For someone coming in with such a snarky attitude, I thought you might actually have something to add...silly me.

People comparing us to animals, if we can get married than surely you can marry an Animal,

how is that logical? we are just wanting equal Human rights

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
This is exactly what I was getting at with the previous sentence. There is a uniform agreement that consent is one of the base lines when making laws about sex. It almost ALWAYS starts with consent.

EXCEPT..what is meant by "consent" varies from society to society, and person to person.

In some cultures it's "parental consent" that matters. In some cases the "government consent" matters, many governments deny their consent to cousins and siblings wanting to marry. In some places it's the "Religious Consent" that matters, a Jewish community would not consent to a Jew marrying a Muslim, etc..

In the well known case of the man marrying the goat..

news.bbc.co.uk...

it was the local community that consented that he should marry the goat. He didn't particularly wish the marriage, only to practice with the goat like a married couple. But, the local community insisted he marry to make it legal.

So, "consent" is interpreted differently by different communities.

reply to post by SQUEALER


Just pointing out the idiocy of your post.... What will be next I wonder? Polygamy? Incest? Paedophillia? All the usual BS arguments that uneducated people and religious fundamentalists continue to spout.

Originally posted by Darth_Prime
People comparing us to animals, if we can get married than surely you can marry an Animal,

how is that logical? we are just wanting equal Human rights

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's probably just a duck.

Human beings have something called "intelligence", that differentiate us from the animals. We know what our body parts are designed for, animals do not. A male dog, jumping on a male dog, could possibly be excused, as being confused, by similarity of form, poor eyesight, and uncontrollable urges.

However, even if a human has poor eyesight, the human can still figure out, using intelligence, the difference between male and female. And although humans do have urges, again they have intelligence and self-control, lacking in the animal world, that enable them to steer their vehicle on the right path.

Originally posted by Truth_Hz
reply to post by SQUEALER

 

Just pointing out the idiocy of your post.... What will be next I wonder? Polygamy? Incest? Paedophillia? All the usual BS arguments that uneducated people and religious fundamentalists continue to spout.

Well, those remain the untapped "forbidden fruit" in some parts of the world. Although Polygamy is legal in many places of the world, Incest can no longer by objected to, because if gay marriage doesn't lead to children, then Incest doesn't have to lead to children either, and the objection to Incest always was the deformities the children suffer from people who are too close genetically having offspring. If gays can get married, then brothers and sisters can just as well get married too, since

"WHAT HAS MARRIAGE GOT TO DO WITH CHILDREN ANYMORE?"