Gun Control Is a Perfect Idea for a Perfect Society, Which America Isn't.

If you can figure out how I got this number, you will be rewarded with a virtual cookie.

I shall start by saying that human is plagued with the impurity of imperfection. What one man wants, another does not want. With this having been said, it's inevitable a utopian society is unattainable because of dissidence among society members.

I won't go into much detail of my utopian society, but one of its characteristics is the banning of guns. In all honesty, I see no purpose in guns if a state of nirvana has been established. In a perfect society, no one hates each other or feels homocidal. Therefore, guns would only exist for accidents waiting to happen. In order to alleviate the number of life-threatening risks, guns would be banned.

Unfortunately, what I've described is a perfect society, and as I said earlier, perfect societies do not exist. Although the authoritarian country of North Korea can be argued as being perfect, their country sucks so badly that their form of "perfect" is unfavorable/imperfect to any conscious man. A utopian society would not work anywhere since developed countries have intelligent people with high standards of living, and developing countries have oblivious people with low standards of living. There ends up being suffering in both situations.

It must be acknowledged the world is full of diverse people with different intentions. Some seek to establish peace, and some seek the agony of mankind. Guns make a portion of us feel safer. Regardless of this, it is written in the Constitution that we citizens have the right to guns, and that should overall dictate we have guns. Personally, I feel less safe with guns everywhere, but I have no right to complain (oh, the irony...) because it is mended into our constitutional document that guns be legal.

When the Second Amendment was written, the imperfections of humanity were recognized. The Second Amendment is for when our security is imperiled. In the last 30 years, guns may not have stopped any massacres, but rather perpetuated them. But, if our lives are at risk when alien or even native forces pose great harm to our nation, the right to bear arms may just make itself useful (other than hunting, etc.).

A perfect society would not be in the business of controlling things, guns or otherwise.

A perfect society wouldn't need a government or military, it also wouldn't need police. Is there such a thing as a perfect society on this planet?

Human nature and the way the mind operates makes reaching a utopian state literally impossible.

As it's been said before, you can see it in the wild. Generally, all living organisms are encoded with a primal-instinct. Fight to survive, etc. etc.. But what make people different, is that they're corrupted by (you name it.)

Think about it, the typical thought processes of everyday life, already make the idea of a perfect society invalid. It just couldn't happen. Sure, some people have a positive outlook and basic reasoning skills. But many of them do not. Unfortunately, there will always be the people who make their decisions irrationally, and base their life off of hatred for others. Among other things.

As for guns and gun control? That's complicated. Of course they should be regulated and closely monitored. But just taking them away from people? That is highly unlikely, and probably wouldn't happen. People have the right to defend themselves, their property and their family.

Originally posted by catswithbigpaws

ETA: Never.
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Do we still get a cookie just for participating?

humans and perfection will never be.

humans are imperfect. what we have is a level of common acceptance we call society. and we can't all agree on what that is. so we need rules and laws to enforce a semblance of conformity.

and we still can't agree on it. so we have prisons.

and we still can't agree on it. so we have the death penalty.

and we still can't agree on it. so we have god.

and we still can't agree on it. so we have guns.

and we still can't... you get the point.. humans and perfection.. never in society, and never in harmony with anything but the chaos that we define ourselves against.

reply to post by catswithbigpaws


What you described is not Utopia it is the progressives dream. You are way,way,way,way off base.



Let me explain my Utopia and I believe what some of the founding fathers had in mind. You have the right to do whatever you want as long as it does not infringe on anothers right to do the same.



Think about what that would really mean. The right of the individual must always come first. If the right of the masses come first just like the progressives want it will always lead to one thing. Fascism.

Ive said this so many times now........

In the UK we are not allowed to have guns. But deaths happen all the time , people are murdered here constantly, because fact is if someone wants to kill they can.

reply to post by catswithbigpaws


Comment withdrawn, my apologies.

I think you got it backwards.

Guns for everyone is perfect for a perfect society! Which America isn't!

My mom told me once that the moment I start focusing on Perfect is the moment I stop being realistic.

Nothing is Perfect, nature isn't even perfect it has flaws, and I think that's what makes nature so Beautiful, that instead of hiding it's flaws with makeup or erasing it completely, nature evolves flaws into new beings.

We however take flaws and exploit them, use them to sway people's thinking inline with our own, take those flaws and get people arrested, removed, killed, or jailed.

I think we need to start working with flaws in society and find out why they are considered flaws and reverse such thinking by appropriate action.

Originally posted by catswithbigpaws
The Second Amendment is for when our security is imperiled.

I would argue that if you wait until your security is imperiled to exercise your right to keep and bear arms, it's too late. That was included in our Constitution so that should our government overstep it's bounds, the people already have the tools needed to defend themselves. The difficulty is in agreeing on what is an overstep that is worthy of defending yourself by force, and what is not. In your own home, someone breaking in and trying to murder you is an overstep that few will argue isn't worthy of defending yourself by force. As a country, there doesn't seem to be a general consensus as to how far the government can go before it's too far. There's been talk of rebellion against the government for at least a decade, likely far longer than that. But what one person thinks is too far, another doesn't believe is far enough.

As for gun control in a perfect society, as others have stated gun control wouldn't be necessary in a perfect society. By virtue of being a perfect society there would be no murder or crime, no criminals shooting innocent people, no one trying to defend themselves or their loved ones from imminent harm, etc. There would be no one willing to use a gun to harm another person, and implementing gun control in such a society would be the government solving a problem that doesn't exist which I would argue makes it an imperfect society.

Originally posted by iunlimited491

Originally posted by catswithbigpaws

ETA: Never.
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Do we still get a cookie just for participating?

edit on 11-5-2013 by iunlimited491 because: (no reason given)

No, you darn communist. You gotta work to get your cookies.

Like you said, it's our freewill & difference in thinking that bars us from a utopian society. Until the time comes when we are Docile creatures, people need protection. If there were no guns then the Strong would be able to oppress or hurt/kill the week. In Africa, prey like wildebeest have Herds, traveling in mass is their protection from Lions, 1 will go down but the herd will live on. Fish do the same by traveling in schools, it guarantees their survival. We need guns. When societies have a Ruthless leader, and the weak are unarmed it turns out Bad. Hitler, Mao, Stalin ect. If Americans think we are Immune to this behavior, then they don't understand behavior, or History. We are not far removed from millions of Jews being cooked because some guy hated them and felt like doing so, they were Unarmed & resorted to hiding in holes because they couldn't fight back. If nobody stepped in, we could be speaking German as a 1 world order nazi haven, flying Nazi flags & wearing weird mustaches.lol

reply to post by catswithbigpaws


The Second Amendment to the Constitution Of The United States does not give me the right to own a gun, it only recognizes that obligation (right) in writing.

The fact that I live and breath and I am self aware gives me the obligation (right) to protect my life and a gun is currently the most effective weapon for that purpose. At one time it was a rock, then a stick, then a knife, a sword and now a gun.

In a perfect society you still have the obligation (right) to protect your life.

The second amendment could be gone tomorrow but it would not change the fact that I have the obligation (right) to protect my life and a gun will still be my weapon of choice.

Guns are not dangerous its the person pulling the trigger. Mental illness and aggressive behaviour needs to be addressed. In Australia there's a strict background check and courses need to be taken then after six months you get a rifle. It's extremely rare for a trained (sane)licenced gun owner to shoot somone here

A perfect society will never and does not exist.

Humanity as are all things in our universe are not perfect.

By definition, a "society" is a group of people with commonalities of geographical location, institutions or a myriad of other perceived, and mutually accepted , commonalities. This includes moral values, laws, government, etc.
Utopia is perfect and all of the foundations of a society are irrelevant and .....illogical.....
One can not conceive of Utopia nor can one escape "society", ...at least for the present.
"Utopian Society" is an oxymoron and everything we reflect upon relevant to it, is...well...irrelevant.

The Second Amendment was conceived at an embryonic stage in the life of the United States, before it had a standing army.

Obviously, the intention was to be able to raise an army at short notice from the civilian population.

This talk of the right to defend myself and to overthrow the government if it oversteps the mark are just modern excuses to perpetuate an ancient and outdated law.

I'd agree insofar as America's gun problem is at endemic proportions. A blanket ban wouldn't work in the nation's current parlous state.

It would be like trying to get all Americans to eat healthy, exercise, get educated, stop watching trash TV / brain dead Hollywood schlock...

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
Ive said this so many times now........

In the UK we are not allowed to have guns. But deaths happen all the time , people are murdered here constantly, because fact is if someone wants to kill they can.

edit on 11-5-2013 by FreedomEntered because: (no reason given)

In the UK (Eng & Wales only) during 2012 there were 511 murders, homicides, infanticides....

www.guardian.co.uk...


In the USA since DEC 14 (SandyHook shooting) there have been 3964 deaths by shooting or firearms

www.slate.com...


Has to be said that the availability of guns leads to more death and mayhem...