10-year-old boy among victims as more than 20 shot on one Chicago day

I live in Chicago, just another day. I'm glad we have some of the strictest gun laws in the country, I feel really safe knowing that no law abiding citizens can carry firearms, I mean, those crazy law abiding people who apply for a CCW and get a permit are liable to go all crazy and start shooting people!

I'm gonna start a petition to ban pressure cookers too, those things are evil!

reply to post by squarehead666


Agreed~

Please understand that there is nothing I'd be happier to see than a US government that truly represents the people of America.....You've had them in the past, but not for a long, long time now.

Whenever I see news of another drone-strike or other piece of murderous inhumanity, I have a real hard time figuring out how it was done in the name of the Americans I know personally?

Did the American Dream really die with Kennedy?

Originally posted by Cabin
reply to post by Wide-Eyes

 

Gun laws only work when it is isolated area. That is why in EU there are far less guns, especially on criminals.
.

edit on 2-5-2013 by Cabin because: (no reason given)

I don't disagree with your points but this part. Gun laws only work in an isolated area, That is why in the EU there are far less guns?

The EU is almost twice as big as USA in population.

In fact Take Russia, Germany, UK and France and that is USA covered, then you have the rest of the EU, Scandinavia, Spain, Italy and 40odd others.

But I am actually for gun owners in the debate, the genie is out the bottle.
Your country was built on something great, that is definitely being taken away and they seem to be trying to conform you like the rest of us.
A lot of us in Europe are just used to it and because a lot of us haven't had it (gun ownership, because Guns are bad mmmkay) the easy argument is to back gun control and unless you speak to a gun owner you don't appreciate what they have and how the media demonises people, Yet the police can carry, not good

Originally posted by Taggart
Your country was built on something great, that is definitely being taken away and they seem to be trying to conform you like the rest of us.

I agree and America.....Don't do it!

We need you to be different!

Originally posted by TaggartA lot of us in Europe are just used to it and because a lot of us haven't had it (gun ownership, because Guns are bad mmmkay) the easy argument is to back gun control and unless you speak to a gun owner you don't appreciate what they have and how the media demonises people, Yet the police can carry, not good.

Guns are not quite as uncommon in Europe as you seem to imply.....Even in the UK it is possible to own some very serious hardware, provided you can prove you are not a basket case.

reply to post by sulaw


if a "skilled gun owner only needs one-two shots....why is it that every time a cop shoots some one(you know trained and all) that they empty their 15-30 round mags(depending on if they have a rifle or a Beretta) in to each subject they shoot? i mean if it all comes down to training why do the police need more then 10 rounds?same for trained solders they should only need one-two as well....yet they go into combat with 6-10 30 round mags and no one says that all solders are untrained or bad shots so why do they need them then.....because "pests" and other malcontents can come in groups of 10 or more


30 round mags are useful for hog hunting and other large pest control and quite frankly reloading all the time can take some of the fun out of target practice and have their place

but i will agree with you that gun control is a long way off and that they could not go door to door to take all of the guns but it is because of every time they try to infringe upon it we scream yell and pitch a fit and throw money at the nra so that we can stop these attempts at infringement

the reason alot of gun owners dont like expanded background checks is these often can lead to lists and lists make us nervous so we tend to fight anything tooth and nail that could even in theory result in a list as we all know how those can historically end up

its not the ammount of ammo you have in your "clip" as you put it(they are called magazines unless going into an enbloc clip m1 garand etc or loaded into a bolt action rifle via stripper clips and then the clips are removed)

but you bring up a good point on training as with the right amount of training no gun control legislation short of a full on ban could stop them from being terrifyingly effective with their simple arms
www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by kimish
It also seems as thought that the places where guns are banned also have the highest firearm crime rates. Hmmmm.

That is not actually true.

For one thing gun bans don't work instantly, it takes many years for there to be much of an effect.

Just look at some stats, and you'll see most gun bans make little difference to gun crime for years.

Take the 1996 Australian gun ban for an example. Homicide rate was on a slight up swing before the ban, and continued in the same vein for a few years before a noticeable drop. Gun bans do not cause a sudden increase in gun crime. In the long run bans DO WORK. But people are short sighted and paranoid.

www.gunsandcrime.org...

Look at the murder rate, not much change after the ban is there? No sudden increase in murders.

www.gunsandcrime.org...

While we still allow guns the problem will never be solved. You can't stop violence with violence. The arguments against gun control do not reflect reality.

Originally posted by kimish
As far as blaming the sub culture, I agree %100 but there is a problem. If anyone can guess what that problem is I'll give you a chocolate chip cookie.

The problem is that blaming the sub culture is "offensive" to someone, somewhere.

Where's my cookie?

XtroZero:

At some point we need to start blaming culture...

I think you are quite right, culture and the elements that make up culture are most certainly to blame. America has a culture of anticipation and pre-emption, Before food is bought, or the mortgage paid, a gun must be owned, just in case some violence should happen on the way to the supermarket or the bank. The wealthier people in Brazil protect themselves with high walls, North Americans use guns.

What is the point of discussion? No one is going to change their ways. Two year old sisters are still going to get shot by five year old brothers whom receive a gun as a present from some very thoughtful and responsible adult. Before they learn to walk, let them learn how to use a weapon. The gun isn't the problem, it's just a tool, albeit for one determined purpose, to maim or kill, but it can't shoot by itself, it can't aim at someone by itself, it needs human agency, purposefully or accidentally.

Truth is, America, you can't deal with a problem you're not willing to face, or actually even call a problem. While, as a nation you refuse to look at the issue as a problem, and constantly rationalize it (for whatever agenda) as someone else's problem, you haven't a chance to lessen the violence. It doesn't matter what the crime rates are in other countries, forget them, just deal with your own...but you're not dealing with it, not in the slightest way.

So yes, culture is very much to blame, and i think the only way you're going to go some way to solving this issue is if you change your very soul, but we all know you're not willing to do that. Is there actually any point at all in mentioning gun deaths? Afterall, if you have a gun culture, shouldn't it be expected that people will die by the gun?

At least you can say people are dying for the 2nd amendment.

reply to post by Xtrozero


Seems to me the "thug culture mentality" is taking a toll on society.


Chicago is suppose to be the gun free city right?


Seems like it's almost as bad as Detroit.

Originally posted by squarehead666

Originally posted by Taggart
Your country was built on something great, that is definitely being taken away and they seem to be trying to conform you like the rest of us.

I agree and America.....Don't do it!

We need you to be different!

Originally posted by TaggartA lot of us in Europe are just used to it and because a lot of us haven't had it (gun ownership, because Guns are bad mmmkay) the easy argument is to back gun control and unless you speak to a gun owner you don't appreciate what they have and how the media demonises people, Yet the police can carry, not good.

Guns are not quite as uncommon in Europe as you seem to imply.....Even in the UK it is possible to own some very serious hardware, provided you can prove you are not a basket case.

edit on 2-5-2013 by squarehead666 because: clarity

Rifles and shotguns mainly. I live 3 miles from the shooting Rampage in England (Derrick bird shootings) a few years back. We seen the effect of that close range. The guy owned the guns legally.

Originally posted by sulaw
Backround checking everyone who owns a gun IMO is good in my book. That would keep a lot of guns out of wacko's hands..... Heck some non wacko's might turn wacko later on... Again a paradox on gun control....

I don't get all the talk about background checks. There already are background checks. Why else do you think the dealer makes you fill out that application when you buy a gun, and then makes a phone call right after? Background check, that's why. The gun grabbers lobbied for this, and now they're not happy with it so they want more. When they get more (which they will), they'll want still more.

They can't go door to door and search for guns..... Or can they?

Originally posted by resoe26
maybe it should be illegal for all Americans TO NOT CARRY A GUN.
if innocent civilians could just shoot back.....

lol.

And you got stars.

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by kimish
It also seems as thought that the places where guns are banned also have the highest firearm crime rates. Hmmmm.

That is not actually true.

For one thing gun bans don't work instantly, it takes many years for there to be much of an effect.

Just look at some stats, and you'll see most gun bans make little difference to gun crime for years.

Take the 1996 Australian gun ban for an example. Homicide rate was on a slight up swing before the ban, and continued in the same vein for a few years before a noticeable drop. Gun bans do not cause a sudden increase in gun crime. In the long run bans DO WORK. But people are short sighted and paranoid.

www.gunsandcrime.org...

Look at the murder rate, not much change after the ban is there? No sudden increase in murders.

www.gunsandcrime.org...

While we still allow guns the problem will never be solved. You can't stop violence with violence. The arguments against gun control do not reflect reality.

Touche`.

Originally posted by sulaw
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

This is how we retain the #1 murder capital title~ Sick as it may seem.... Makes one sad to hear such a young child dying that way.... It's a daily occurance here.

Its a daily occurance in lots of places in this world right now..., what makes this special?
.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by goou111
506 in 2012 that's working?

As opposed to 760? Gun murders down by 1/3. That's working imo.

Not only has it gone down in total but the population might have gone up in that time. So as a percentage of everyone living there the figures might have drastically gone down even more?

reply to post by sulaw


Actually, South Africa has vastly larger amounts of murders per-capita than the States does. Don't believe me? Look it up. The States may be the (non-state related) murder capital of the Western hemisphere, but South Africa is the murder capitol of the world. Food for thought..

reply to post by stirling


Because they're the blessed Americans, didn't ya hear? Who cares what happens in other countries as long as they're not Americans, right? /sarcasm. Gee, it amazes me that most Americans still wonder why the vast majority of the world hates them.

reply to post by xXxinfidelxXx


A great change is the only thing that could save America and I don't see it coming anytime soon, it's just a case of waiting and watching until the next great "event" occurs via the MSM.

Of one thing you can be sure, something will happen, it always does

Originally posted by squarehead666
Please understand that there is nothing I'd be happier to see than a US government that truly represents the people of America

They do. You're under the assumption that everyone in America has the same wants, needs, desires and thought processes. They don't. People in Vermont are going to expect different things than people in Texas because they live different lives. The representatives of the people in those 2 states are also going to see things differently because that's how the constituents voted. They voted for people to watch out for their best interests. If the common man in either of those states don't see eye to eye on issues, what makes you think their leaders will? The term "Untied" Sates of America is a misnomer. There's nothing united about us.

Did the American Dream really die with Kennedy?

Yes. When Kennedy got shot it woke people up to the fact that their dreams weren't safe anymore, and that when a leader tries to do positive things, he or she dies young. When that happened, people started to think more locally. I guess you could say that individual communities, regions and states got tighter. Started looking out for themselves more. This is also, more likely than not, when you started to see more of a disparity in the numbers when people went out to vote for a President. Before there might have been a 70/30 split, at best, when people voted. Now, what was the margin that got Obama elected? 55/45?

If anything, we're more divided than ever. Assume otherwise and you come across as being very naïve.