3 good questions for christians/creationists

reply to post by micmerci


So you are proposing the theory of genesis in spite of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary that you´ve studied?

How so?

reply to post by micmerci


I actually agree with that.

Dino´s then.

Go.

Originally posted by Nightaudit
reply to post by undo

 

So you are saying that some Dinos cross bread with humans?

Really?

Do you think that very different species like that could produce a living organism?

This question would require establishing if it was copulation or genetic manipulation and as you have probably learned by now, the sun is pretty good at genetic manipulation too, so the whole thing is rather murky. It's my position at this time, that the ancient texts of various ancient cultures, give us the answer: et.al, that both things occured, both creation from, and cloning from. The sun impacted all this. The sun changes living matter on a regular basis. However, that wouldn't stop a sentient, technologically advanced race, from speeding up the evolution of or altering of genetics.

reply to post by undo


HOW does the sun play any role in genetic mutation? And how does that solve the puzzle of two completely different species supposedly producing living children?

Originally posted by Nightaudit
reply to post by undo

 

HOW does the sun play any role in genetic mutation? And how does that solve the puzzle of two completely different species supposedly producing living children?

They aren't two completely different species...at first. the first adam race was not human. et.al, not homo sapiens. the human part doesn't come in, till the creation of mammalian procreation. before that, new adam were copied and there was no pain in childbirth. cloning doesn't hurt apparently. but eve was genetically modified, altered.

okay, let's go to basics #2:

the serpent gave Eve "knowledge." for some time now, various non christian religious groups have claimed that the serpent did Eve and then Adam, a favor. He brought them out of the darkness of ignorance. that is not what knowledge means in those passages. "To know" was to have sex with. So when the text says "Adam knew his wife and she conceived," it's saying that he gave her knowledge and she got knowledge from him. That is PROCREATION.

consider for a moment that if a species is recreated via cloning, the population numbers, health, lifespan and so on, can be carefully monitored and controlled. However, if that species is independently procreating, all bets are off. So essentially, what the text is saying is the Adam race went from being sentient clones that reproduced via painless cloning, to procreating, over populating, and rather violent (reproductive hormones do this--survival of the species mechanism). And THAT is the definition of SIN.

Yep.

reply to post by undo


That is a very pretty story, indeed. Unfortunately it does not hold any grounds in reality.

I do not know how else to put it.

So, at first the serpents (dinos) and the humans weren´t different species? And you mentioned cloning?

Care to explain in a few short bullet points what your belief of creation is?

I get the feeling that you´re reading a completely different book altogether.

Anyway, I am done for today.

I will certainly address further points tomorrow, but now I have to take a nap.

Thanks to anyone contributing to this thread so far, no matter how weird your insights were.

Originally posted by Nightaudit
reply to post by undo

 

That is a very pretty story, indeed. Unfortunately it does not hold any grounds in reality.

I do not know how else to put it.

So, at first the serpents (dinos) and the humans weren´t different species? And you mentioned cloning?

Care to explain in a few short bullet points what your belief of creation is?

I get the feeling that you´re reading a completely different book altogether.

it's not a different book. you are brainwashed by .......well, okay, here's point #3:

300 years ago, the papacy had its seat in Germany. The holy roman empire had been going strong for nearly 1700 years. The universities there were the finest in the world (supposedly). They had been actively engaging their professors (who were all catholic priests) to take part in a form of research known today as HIGHER CRITICISM. the job of higher criticism was to prove the papal interpretation of the bible and therefore the bible by proxy, was the most legitimate and therefore accurate, account of the ancient world. to do this, they had to criticize the ancient texts of other cultures. This set the stage for the Enlightenment. What comes next is a bit of a shocker:

A higher critic by the name of Frederic Wolfe, wrote a critical text entitled, THE HOMERIC PROBLEM. In it, he claimed that the ancient greeks couldn't have possibly written their texts when the greeks claimed they did. The papacy was elated with this and had all ancient greek histories, annals, epics, etc, removed from historical consideration. References in historical documents, referred to even financial records of the greeks, as nothing more than fairy tales, made up years later. This removal of ancient greek records from the history of the world, screwed the pooch, big time. Without the greek records to support them, other ancient texts met similar fates. Soon the entire ancient world was considered a fairy tale, well, except for the papal interpretation of the biblical texts.

As you might suspect, some enterprising higher critic said, HEY WAIT A MINUTE (paraphrased hehe), IF THOSE AREN'T TRUE, THEN THE BIBLE HAS NO SUPPORT EITHER. and thus began the enlightenment. thank the vatican.

Fast forward 40 years. The science of Archaeology is created as a field of research and it is discovered that the ancient greeks could write after all. When confronted with this information, Enlightenment professors would just say "What? You want to go back to believing in fairies?"
And that, was the end of that. Problem was, without an ancient historical text to go by, there was no way to set a timeline. So, the archaeologists said, Hey let's go dig up ancient egypt. and use its timeline.

There's more, but I think this is enough information for now.

I read this somewhere dont remember where but its a good question for a devoted Christian.... If your God told you to kill me, Would you? and if they answer yes, well than they are psychpaths.

the god of the old testament is more than one god. and i suspect, sometimes the usage of the word for god/lord/divinity/divine one, etc, was interchanged with pharaoh. so sometimes you are reading pharaonic edicts and the texts claims they are from "god" because the translators had a translational bias.

proof in point (referring to my prior post about god pharaohs):

3 "men" come to visit abraham at his tent, just prior to the destruction of sodom and gomorrah. read that story carefully. words we are told refer to the creator of the universe (et. al, a singular god) are being applied to the men. why does god need to physically go to sodom and gomorrah to see their wretched condition, when he could supernaturally view it otherwise? most likely answer: that aint god, that's a god king, a pharaoh with entourage. this leads to the next question: how'd he destroy sodom and gomorrah if he was just some ancient human pharaoh? things that make you go hmmm....

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Nightaudit

 

You didn't take the time to grasp it, you missed it.

You missed it, probably the more intriguing information ever posted in the history of the world. Oh well, you're loss.

Since the thread has moved to Creationism, etc. It's clear I missed the appropriate place for my answer to your three points. But, what the heck.

1: If you were born in a non christian country with a different main religion, would you still somehow end up a christian?

I might if I read enough, or met the right people.

2: How do you cope with the obviously wrong and horrible laws and statements in the bible? (How to treat your slaves and that it´s ok to beat them, women´s "right´s", that we have to stone people that wear two different fabrics and all that jazz). In other words, do you pick the nice points out of the bible and ignore the bad ones? Or do you accept everything in it?

Two points. "Obviously" wrong and horrible? What is your source for judging that, contemporary customs? The Bible is a collection of books. Some are poetry, worship instructions, history, songs, visionary and prophetic literature, etc. I accept everything that's in it for what it is meant to be.

3: I personally would detest the god who pulled that stunt with Abraham and Isaac. Or the god who completely wipes out whole ecosystems including innocent animals, just because he doesn´t like the ways of men. I wouldn´t WANT that to be true.

Fine with me if you want to say your judgment is better than God's. But you might want to read the conversation God had with Job at the end of Job.

Originally posted by Nightaudit

1: If you were born in a non christian country with a different main religion, would you still somehow end up a christian?

God doesn't care where you were born, and religion was created by men. Men are sinful and imperfect, and so is anything created by men. Anyone can become a Christian, regardless of where they were born, or what religion they were brought up in. Christianity is a lifestyle... it is a philosophy. It is not a religion.

2: How do you cope with the obviously wrong and horrible laws and statements in the bible? (How to treat your slaves and that it´s ok to beat them, women´s "right´s", that we have to stone people that wear two different fabrics and all that jazz). In other words, do you pick the nice points out of the bible and ignore the bad ones? Or do you accept everything in it?

I accept everything in the Bible, but I accept it in context. The horrible laws you mention were not the laws of God, they were the laws of men who thought, in their arrogance, they were acting on behalf of or in the name of God.

3: I personally would detest the god who pulled that stunt with Abraham and Isaac. Or the god who completely wipes out whole ecosystems including innocent animals, just because he doesn´t like the ways of men. I wouldn´t WANT that to be true.

God was testing Abraham's faith. God created the Earth and all of the ecosystems, therefore God has the right to destroy it whenever he sees fit. You must realize that our physical existence here on this Earth is not important. What IS important is the eternal destiny of your soul. When you come to terms with that, what happens to you here on Earth will become inconsequential.


Please don't look to Westboro for your template of what a Christian is. They are deplorable heretics... nothing more.

Hi Charles and Optimus!

Where have you guys been? Been here holding the fort waiting for Cavalry

reply to post by micmerci

Dear micmerci,

Do you want an honest answer? I've looked at this thread a couple of times and walked away. It seems like the headline should have read "3 Reasons Why the Christian God is Phony and the Bible is False." It just didn't look like it had the makings of an enjoyable thread.

A personal confession. I'm not a fighter, I get no joy from stomping people physically or verbally. I used to do that stuff when I was younger, but it's no longer my way. I'd much rather go for a walk (metaphorically) and honestly discuss significant questions in a mutually respectful search for truth and clear thinking with one or more posters.

But, how could I turn down any request from you? Where should Optimus and I start?

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


Unfortunately, I think this dance is over. I found I have mellowed with age as well but sometimes I allow myself to get dragged in.

reply to post by Nightaudit


Maybe God did create everything the good and the bad. In the bible God claims that he created everything good and bad.

Grace is Unconditional love, if you were born God loves you. Doesn't matter what you believe he loves you. Because the bible also says God is love.

Jesus came to prove that God is love, despite everything we see. The only way to prove this was to prove life after physical death. You see if death is the end, than it is not possible by our own understanding to reconcile that God is love. It is only when you accept that all you see is not all that is, that you can accept that even the bad things have served God's greater purpose for us.

You must deeply embrace the concept of life after physical death to accept that God indeed is love and has loved us from the beginning. This is probably one of the toughest things to have faith in.

The problem is man....just think of that in its self, our language is male dominated, I should of used people but with out thinking I simply used man as the noun, and I really do mean human, we are simply just that... human, and we don't have all the answers, only control freaks claim to have all the answers, because control freaks are the ones who live with a lot of fear, so they have to scare you too...you know that with that fiery place that the Romans made up to control you.

reply to post by Nightaudit


1. Impossible to know.

2. & 3. It doesn't matter what we think, because he's the creator. As creator, he has the right to do whatever he pleases. Furthermore, we have no idea what is best for him, or us, so truly, we have no right to say anything...

You should read Job - just saying.