What's With the Double Standards on Dead Political Leader Threads?

Was just checking out a few Margaret Thatcher is Dead threads and found them closed, apparently on account of people not talking nicely of her.

So I checked some Hugo Chavez is Dead threads and they are still open. In said threads I saw both positive and negative comments about him. Granted, there doesn't seem to be a huge Venezuelan contingent here at ATS, so the level and amount of vitriol regarding his death is going to much less in comparison to Thatcher's. But besides that, there is no difference in the propriety of these two topics -- except we can't have people talking ill of dead political leaders unless they've been vilified by The Establishment, i.e. western corporate media -- MSM, if you will.

Looks like a double standard to me. I'm no fan of Thatcher, but as an American, I haven't really got much of a dog in this fight, so I don't feel personally muzzled on this matter. But there seem to be a lot of UK ATS members, and Thatcher was most definitely a polarizing figure, so I am not surprised to see strong feelings expressed about her either way. It seems censoring/shutting down threads on this topic is treating UK and British Commonwealth ATS members very patronizingly.

Political leaders are public figures, so commentary on their political legacy, positive or negative, would seem very much to be fair game in any town square of ideas, which is what I figured ATS for.

So some people at ATS have been offended by the negative things said about Thatcher. Big deal. There are a lot of threads that say nasty things about various and sundry groups and countries, and in some of these threads people even wax gleeful about military strikes against said groups and countries -- something I find a lot more offensive than criticizing a dead political leader who arguably left a bad legacy, BUT I have no desire to censor such threads; I'd rather just call people on their offensive claims/remarks if I am that bothered by them.

Well, we'll see what happens to this thread as well...

reply to post by MrInquisitive


S&F!
I never mourn any politicians demise, except maybe a few.
For the most part they are sociopathetic parasites.
Besides, who ever said that ATS was fair and balanced?
Our chalk their board, they also have the eraser too.

Thatcher... the killer of britain.

No one is saying you must feel sad.

You're all saying that because you know you're guilty of being less than morally viable...

to say "Good riddance to bad rubbish may she rot in hell" and rejoicing like some backward savage 12'th century barbarian..

An old lady died. No one says you must cry. But shut up if you have only joy in your heart.

Originally posted by winofiend
But shut up if you have only joy in your heart.

If only someone could have got that message through to her when she was destroying Britain.

Originally posted by winofiend
No one is saying you must feel sad.

You're all saying that because you know you're guilty of being less than morally viable...

to say "Good riddance to bad rubbish may she rot in hell" and rejoicing like some backward savage 12'th century barbarian..

An old lady died. No one says you must cry. But shut up if you have only joy in your heart.

It's okay that cancer victim Hugo Chavez died, and people can say disparaging things about his demise? it's okay to talk bellicosely about attacking Iran because it isn't kowtowing to the US and Israel?

So what happens should Kim Jung Un (or whatever his name is) croak and the N Korean leadership get overthrown, resulting in their deaths? Will it be inappropriate to be joyful/gleeful about their deaths???

As for Thatcher, an old lady, dying, and any who have joy in their heart over the matter should shut up, you're demanding controlled speech. I understand it is unbecoming to say something very unsporting like "I'm dancing on her grave as I type this" or "let her rot in hell", but are you also saying that people have no right to discuss her political legacy, i.e. things she was responsible for that you disagree with strongly?

As a related example, I generally admire Winston Churchill, but he was also responsible for some bad policies and said things that we now consider very reactionary -- if not downright racist, should people not be able to bring up his bad points because he is dead? Should we also then not speak ill of Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin or Mao Zedong? Would it have been inappropriate for Romanians to cheer Ceaușescu's death?

You can claim my examples are extreme, but political/moral view is in the eye of the beholder. If one can talk ill of dead dictators, one should also be able to talk ill of dead, democratically elected officials who one vehemently disagreed with when the person was making polices and jawboning on this or that.

Originally posted by Elvis Hendrix
Thatcher... the killer of britain.

I don't want this thread to devolve into a kick/praise Thatcher thread, as that will only get it closed like the others, so please, commenters, refrain from such rhetoric here. I want the subject of talking about dead political leaders discussed in a general and philosophical manner, and to compare how the deaths of different political leaders are treated by the ATS PTB, i.e. is it okay to talk ill of the EVIL DEAD, but not so with the -- in some minds -- "good" dead?

I say let the working classes and all those effected by her policies grieve in their own way. If people want to celebrate her death then let them get on with it.

If you want the the rose-tinted view of her premiership then put the bbc news channel on - Its 24hrs of how fantastic she was.

Trying to silence people (Even on ATS) is yet another tatic to undermine the working classes. Its almost like saying "Hey, it wasnt that bad" now that where 20 years down the line.

ATS needs to reopen those threads because people have a right to know the facts and not just the BS peddled by the media and elite.

reply to post by SearchLightsInc


I agree with you 100%. It's very disimpowering and dismissive of others' realities not to allow them to speak out on a former political leader of theirs. Are we to expect the same thing here when Dick Cheney dies, i.e. either praise him or hit the highway? I really hope not.

Originally posted by MrInquisitive
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

Are we to expect the same thing here when Dick Cheney dies, i.e. either praise him or hit the highway? I really hope not.

My thoughts exactly.

You can compare this to many things in life, if it has not affected you personally, you'll think peoples comments are harsh.

To those whose lives she destroyed, who is anyone to say they can't display their emotions in whatever way they want?

It's a good lesson in life, you get judged on the good things you do, but also the bad. Most of the times, the bad things can trump the good.

CX.

Chances are, the threads were closed after repeated T&C violations, some of which may have even been removed, hence you didn't see the cause. If a thread has too many of these racking up, it's closed.

Originally posted by Gazrok
Chances are, the threads were closed after repeated T&C violations, some of which may have even been removed, hence you didn't see the cause. If a thread has too many of these racking up, it's closed.

Yeah? Well I notice all the pro-Thatcher threads up and running now. The anti-Thatcher thread was closed by Semper Fortis, with a comment to the effect of: "lots of attack posts about nothing in particular" (or something to that effect). Surprise, surprise: attack a right-wing politician, get your comment removed and the thread shut down. Attack a centrist Democrat or left-wing politician, or espouse a pre-emptive attack on a country that has done nothing to the US -- carry on.

i hardly responce on these treads , in respect of the departed i will not flame this specific character nor other politicians.

But the reactions dont just come from nothing , However treats or mockery is just insane ...

The Woman has passed away , it is history , stop looking back.

We humans are idiots , we take on negative sh$@#t from decades ago , it is like we only want negative thoughts streaming through our heads.

TheGreazel.

I'll say it...Good Riddance to Thatcher. She destroyed millions of lives so if she suffered a painful death and /or one in the afterlife. it is just desserts as far as I am concerned. She and Reagan were like Frick and Frack and I can't stand what he did either.

Here's all i have to say on Margaret Thatcher-i grew up in a time and country where women were very subservient and deferring to men-very easily ruled and overruled-something that i found pathetic and infuriating-so i respected her feisty,spirited nature,and the way she held her own in a "man's world"

Because i'm South African,we did not suffer financially from her politics-after the stories i have read on here from members who did,as children,or young adults-i extend my sympathy.

However,i grew up in a country where there never WAS any free milk-or free anything,except state hospitals for the unemployed/very poor.If your parents could not supply you with food for school,or milk-too bad,you drank water and went hungry.No dole,no help for the unemployed-you were on your own.I am white,we were poor and disadvantaged under the Apartheid regime,under the current regime we are not much better off-no one in this country is used to ever being dependent on the politicians of the day,except those benefiting from nepotism+cronyism,who,like Julius Malema,finds out that the tide can turn very swiftly.Those that felt they could be,are soon disillusioned.The current government benefits very few black+colored people,and actively goes out of their way to disadvantage whites.
We learned from childhood to be independent,and to make a way for yourself-no one in any regime is gonna do you a favour,or be your safety net.