Winged beings seen by astronauts?

Originally posted by buzzEmiller

Originally posted by JimOberg
Martyn, which of your hundreds of video postings, and WHERE on the video, is the audio sequence you are referring to? Just saying, 'Nyah, nyah, I won't tell you because I know you already know, so there!!', really isn't helpful. I really don't know.

What is it you claim Story is talking about here? Sounds pretty routine to me. TDRS-Z and PGSC's and redeploy procedures. Where are the UFOs? What do YOU think he's saying?

This is a quote from an earlier post, is it why you linked this video?

We all know he is super smart & knows full well that these objects could never be shooting stars...nor the MIR...nor Venus!!! He is sending us a message loud & clear. On STS-80 with UFOs shooting off suddenly (like STS-48), Story asks, as the video is put out for the world to see..."is the control room on a break?" (translation 'is anybody seeing this') & mission control says "we're all here Story & we are all watching" !!!!!!!

Story asks about the MCC break because he was told they were talking through TDRS-Z, over the Indian Ocean, while usually shuttles just used TDRS-East and TDRS-West which were positioned in such a way that a gap was left -- the 'Zone of Exclusion' -- in that region. Using a third TDRS, 'Z', filled the gap, but it was usually in this period that the MCC took breaks. That's why Story asked the question. It would be too much to expect you to know that, of course.

Another important feature one ought to know about these videos, to figure out what the moving dots are, is very basic -- is it day or night? That is, is there sunlight streaming through the space around the shuttle, that might illuminate small nearby objects? As far as I can tell from Martyn's postings, he never knew or cared whether it was 'day' or 'night' in his images that he claims are unexplainable.

Here's where it is crucial: there is a narrow interval in each 90-minute-orbit when the shuttle has passed out of Earth's shadow, but the ground below it remains dark so it doesn't 'backfill' illumination into the shuttle's shadow. This allows small nearby objects to 'appear' suddenly, seemingly out of nowhere, as they drift out of the shadow zone into full sunlight. Some home experiments can show how this works.

Now, what a REAL analysis of these 'UFO videos' shows is that the most spectacular of them mostly seem to fall in this brief interval -- not in full darkness nor in flight over the sunlit Earth. It is my presumption that this very interesting correlation is related to causation -- the special shadow zone causes the spectacular and puzzling appearfances of dots, that are regular shuttle-derived dandruff.

Martyn never explains this. He probably doesn't even know about it, because he doesn't care what the date/time or day/night of the images are. Or at least, he shows no interest in caring.

The folks who want you to believe these videos are unexplainable in prosaic terms are the same ones who try to make you know as little as possible -- or know as much nonsense as possible -- about real spaceflight. That's the key to enthusiasm for the 'space UFO' explanation -- heads full of misinformation, and empty of reality, about normal space operations.

Perhaps its those Elemental Aliens that are talked about in Alien/UFO lore from time to time.

reply to post by JimOberg
During the 'search for MIR' (STS-63) when the camera zooms in ...we clearly can see more of these UFOs (not meteors) & they are very far away

These have nothing to do with some lighting issue...these are all over & we see then heading in all directions.

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by buzzEmiller

Originally posted by JimOberg
Martyn, which of your hundreds of video postings, and WHERE on the video, is the audio sequence you are referring to? Just saying, 'Nyah, nyah, I won't tell you because I know you already know, so there!!', really isn't helpful. I really don't know.

What is it you claim Story is talking about here? Sounds pretty routine to me. TDRS-Z and PGSC's and redeploy procedures. Where are the UFOs? What do YOU think he's saying?

This is a quote from an earlier post, is it why you linked this video?

We all know he is super smart & knows full well that these objects could never be shooting stars...nor the MIR...nor Venus!!! He is sending us a message loud & clear. On STS-80 with UFOs shooting off suddenly (like STS-48), Story asks, as the video is put out for the world to see..."is the control room on a break?" (translation 'is anybody seeing this') & mission control says "we're all here Story & we are all watching" !!!!!!!

Story asks about the MCC break because he was told they were talking through TDRS-Z, over the Indian Ocean, while usually shuttles just used TDRS-East and TDRS-West which were positioned in such a way that a gap was left -- the 'Zone of Exclusion' -- in that region. Using a third TDRS, 'Z', filled the gap, but it was usually in this period that the MCC took breaks. That's why Story asked the question. It would be too much to expect you to know that, of course.

edit on 20-4-2013 by JimOberg because: add

My point exactly!

Story gives us routine info here & gets a free pass from you & NASA. Story ignores what the actual NASA video feed is showing & thus whistle-blows it to "the world" by keeping it on screen. Story does not explain any of the UFO action on the screen...even to dismiss it!! That is his way.

Here on STS-63 is another Story Musgrave example of his method of playing both sides...

as CAP COM here, he ignores an astronauts question about a camera movement anomaly... (that I think it sounds like "code" for 'look at this cool UFO'). Musgrave then mentions the Moon???... WE .."the world" SEE a 'door like' object move past the shuttle! Story then completely IGNORES it & the next question...forcing the astronaut to answer his own strange question... himself! (he says how really neat "it" was!!)

Really? "it' being the UFO ??..or the camera issue or whatever it is that Story Musgrave completely ignores as it rolls by?

What are they even talking about?? (and ATS members, take note of the 'star system' they are observing!)

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by buzzEmiller

....On one from the STS-61 mission, during a spacewalk to fix the HST 'focus', senior (& most experienced) astronaut Musgrave comments to his 2 fellow spacewalkers (on the shuttle's most important & closely watched mission to date) that he sees something that he does not recognize, & he goes out of his way to point it out to everyone...asking if others see it, only to be "schooled" by the others that he is looking at VENUS!!!. His answer is
"you mean it moves that fast"....amazing! ..NASA's #1 superstar asks "is that a satellite down there...look..it's coming right at us..do you guys see it...." he is told "no Story ...that is Venus" he says "you mean it moves that fast"...& is told yes...isn't it amazing! .....video wise you only see the 3 astronauts & the Hubble.

Is somebody suggesting that three astronauts were outside the shuttle for the repair? That you can SEE the three astronauts? I only see two -- what am I missing? Or what are you imagining?

Why don't you provide a full transcript of the words you think the astronauts are saying, so we can follow along and compare? What I heard didn't sound at all unusual or unexplainable.

edit on 20-4-2013 by JimOberg because:

So Jim... let me try to understand this explainable, high school science problem the astronauts are discussing...

The #1 NASA superstar astronaut, Story Musgrave...on the STS-61 mission (the biggest VIP mission at the time,) to fix the Hubble.

& he has to ask his crew to look at that "satellite" that is coming straight at them!!

& they have to tell him that it is VENUS...give me a break!

reply to post by buzzEmiller
here is that video...

So how fast are they going? Wouldn't it be a little disorienting for anyone looking at common objects from a very different perspective? Perception is not as cut and dry as most people think it is.

Originally posted by buzzEmiller
reply to post by JimOberg

 

During the 'search for MIR' (STS-63) when the camera zooms in ...we clearly can see more of these UFOs (not meteors) & they are very far away

These have nothing to do with some lighting issue...these are all over & we see then heading in all directions.

Good to hear from you again, thanks for responding.

We clearly see a lot of dots, agreed.

You have no evidence relating to their distance, from a few feet to a few thousand miles. If you have an argument from evidence, please specify. Otherwise you're only arguing from assumptions.

The 'lighting issue', don't be too quick to dismiss it. It relates directly to the question of the source of the illumination of the dots, whether they are glowing, or are merely in sunlight.

I think you're begging off here because you now realize that you don't even know if the scene is night or day, and you don't want to admit it.

My interpretation is that we're seeing small nearby particles, coming off/away from the shuttle, that are sunlit. Some, very close, start out within the shuttle's shadow and emerge into sunlight, giving the appearance of suddenly 'materializing' when actually they are only becoming illuminated.

We do see dots 'all over' and indeed heading in different directions, agreed.

Originally posted by buzzEmiller

Here on STS-63 is another Story Musgrave example of his method of playing both sides...

as CAP COM here, he ignores an astronauts question about a camera movement anomaly... (that I think it sounds like "code" for 'look at this cool UFO'). Musgrave then mentions the Moon???... WE .."the world" SEE a 'door like' object move past the shuttle! Story then completely IGNORES it & the next question...forcing the astronaut to answer his own strange question... himself! (he says how really neat "it" was!!)

Really? "it' being the UFO ??..or the camera issue or whatever it is that Story Musgrave completely ignores as it rolls by?

What are they even talking about??

We really are cross-communicating in different non-intersecting universes here, Martyn.

In the world I live in, the crewman raises a question of the night scene oscillating slightly, wondering if it's due to the thruster firings, since the payload bay [exterior] camera is oscillating [they are lightly-mounted on pan/tilt actuators] or whether his in-cabin TV monitor is wavering on its own mount [most of the monitors are laptops that are only velcro'd in place once on orbit]. In the course of the conversation something floats out of the payload bay and away, briefly lit by the PLB floodlights until it gets farther away, an occurrence so commonplace that neither astronaut bothers to interrupt their chains of thought.

In your world, the conversation is a contrived sequence of code-talking with hidden meanings that you, and only you, have the insight to interpret. And the overt meanings are all phony.

I guess one might distinguish between the real world and the imaginary one by seeing whether or not image actually did osciallte, and what caused it to. So the astronaut on board is the one to ask. Otherwise, how would Musgrave know what he was talking about?

As usual, your powers of invention are awesome, Martyn.

Originally posted by buzzEmiller
[STS-63 Mir search video] Story gives us routine info here & gets a free pass from you & NASA. Story ignores what the actual NASA video feed is showing & thus whistle-blows it to "the world" by keeping it on screen. Story does not explain any of the UFO action on the screen...even to dismiss it!! That is his way.

Let me see if I'm following you. The fact that Story reports this scene directly as a search for Mir, is PROOF that it was NOT a search for Mir, and actually proves that Story knows the UFOs are really there but is faking the conversation to fool everybody but you?

Am I close?

Originally posted by buzzEmiller

Originally posted by JimOberg
Why don't you provide a full transcript of the words you think the astronauts are saying, so we can follow along and compare? What I heard didn't sound at all unusual or unexplainable.

So Jim... let me try to understand this explainable, high school science problem the astronauts are discussing...

Please provide the transcript as you understand it, not merely your interpretation of what the crew secretly MEANT to say.

The #1 NASA superstar astronaut, Story Musgrave...on the STS-61 mission (the biggest VIP mission at the time,) to fix the Hubble.

& he has to ask his crew to look at that "satellite" that is coming straight at them!!

& they have to tell him that it is VENUS...give me a break!

Can you determine where Venus was in the sky at the time of this exchange? I know how to, and lots of others here do too. Do you have the slightest clue about real astronomy and spaceflight, outside your own imagination?

Please show us.

Originally posted by buzzEmiller
reply to post by buzzEmiller

 

here is that video...

You know, Martyn, I don't hear Story's voice at all. Just the two EVA guys talking to each other.

It is important that you provide a checkable transcript with identified voices so we can start from a common grounding in reality.

So far, all I see you standing on, is your own imaginative over-interpretations of conversations you seem to be clueless about the content of.

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by buzzEmiller
reply to post by buzzEmiller

 

here is that video...

You know, Martyn, I don't hear Story's voice at all. Just the two EVA guys talking to each other.

It is important that you provide a checkable transcript with identified voices so we can start from a common grounding in reality.

So far, all I see you standing on, is your own imaginative over-interpretations of conversations you seem to be clueless about the content of.

Are you kidding me?

That is Story Musgraves voice....he is called Story...He is seeing things moving towards him! It is night & Story is on a super hard mission...& he suddenly goes dumb? I think not...it is what it is Jim!

It's a point worth making again because as far as I can tell, Martyn brushes it off as unimportant. How does that argment go?

Originally posted by JimOberg
Another important feature one ought to know about these videos, to figure out what the moving dots are, is very basic -- is it day or night? That is, is there sunlight streaming through the space around the shuttle, that might illuminate small nearby objects? As far as I can tell from Martyn's postings, he never knew or cared whether it was 'day' or 'night' in his images that he claims are unexplainable.

Here's where it is crucial: there is a narrow interval in each 90-minute-orbit when the shuttle has passed out of Earth's shadow, but the ground below it remains dark so it doesn't 'backfill' illumination into the shuttle's shadow. This allows small nearby objects to 'appear' suddenly, seemingly out of nowhere, as they drift out of the shadow zone into full sunlight. Some home experiments can show how this works.

Now, what a REAL analysis of these 'UFO videos' shows is that the most spectacular of them mostly seem to fall in this brief interval -- not in full darkness nor in flight over the sunlit Earth. It is my presumption that this very interesting correlation is related to causation -- the special shadow zone causes the spectacular and puzzling appearfances of dots, that are regular shuttle-derived dandruff.

Martyn never explains this. He probably doesn't even know about it, because he doesn't care what the date/time or day/night of the images are. Or at least, he shows no interest in caring.

The folks who want you to believe these videos are unexplainable in prosaic terms are the same ones who try to make you know as little as possible -- or know as much nonsense as possible -- about real spaceflight. That's the key to enthusiasm for the 'space UFO' explanation -- heads full of misinformation, and empty of reality, about normal space operations.

Originally posted by buzzEmiller

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by buzzEmiller
reply to post by buzzEmiller

 

here is that video...

You know, Martyn, I don't hear Story's voice at all. Just the two EVA guys talking to each other.

It is important that you provide a checkable transcript with identified voices so we can start from a common grounding in reality.

So far, all I see you standing on, is your own imaginative over-interpretations of conversations you seem to be clueless about the content of.

Are you kidding me?

That is Story Musgraves voice....he is called Story...He is seeing things moving towards him! It is night & Story is on a super hard mission...& he suddenly goes dumb? I think not...it is what it is Jim!

I listened to it twice more, Martyn, and I don't hear anybody calling anybody 'Story' -- whats the exact time hack you are hearing that name? Or can anybody else help?

How is he seeing "things moving towards him"? Are there really multiple objects, thingS, as you claim? Where do you imagine he is standing and watching from, and what is he seeing things on or through? What is your reconstruction of the scene?

I still don't recognize the voice as Story's -- have you listened to the tapes the previous hours and the following hours to see what he contributes to the conversations? Who are the two spacewalkers?

And regarding Venus. Can you check to verify that in fact Venus would be, or NOT be, in the position described by the spacewalker? If you don't know how to do this, just ask, I'm sure somebody else here can help you through it.

Or are you afraid to find out?

We've had a very good exchange with Martyn Stubbs about 'space UFO videos' in general and I hope it continues.

Just to keep readers' attention, here's one of my '99 FAQs' on the subject, from my home page, on why watching these videos for strange stuff really IS important:

15 Q: Does NASA view these reports seriously?

A: For safety reasons, at the very least, NASA flight controllers do indeed pay attention, and have been doing so for decades. John Glenn’s report of ‘fireflies’ was closely examined as an indicator of how the cooling system – an externally-mounted ‘flash evaporator’ that used water to cool the capsule – may have been malfunctioning. On Apollo-13, observations of ice particles out the window helped quickly characterize the severity of the cryogenic tank explosion. During Apollo missions, reports and images of what came to be humorously called ‘moon pigeons’ provided clues to the status of critical external components such as heat shields and thermal blankets. A Skylab mission was nearly aborted with a rescue flight when ‘snow’ showed that a thruster was leaking precious fuel. A critical international space rendezvous in 1995 was nearly cancelled because of excessive fuel leaks, observed as ice swarms outside the STS-63 window. Structural pieces of shuttle missions have been observed and closely examined by camera zoom, but the most serious shuttle space failure, the ‘Columbia’ disaster, missed a chance to be forewarned when a hunk of the vital heat shield drifted away but was NOT observed by eyeball or camera. For reasons such as these, strange-looking outside stuff gets the immediate attention of Mission Control – and all in public.

See my 1994 briefing: “Mitigation of Hazards of Shuttle-Generated Debris”,
www.jamesoberg.com...

and this Apollo-era NASA study of anomalous external objects
www.jamesoberg.com...

Here’s how a timely report of a ‘UFO’ might have saved the lives of the Columbia crew during their doomed January 2003 mission: www.msnbc.msn.com...

…and here’s why reports of ‘stuff’ were always made rapidly and openly:
MSNBC // June 13, 2008 // Why NASA watches out for true UFOs
today.msnbc.msn.com...

Click here for more information.

No disrespect to the astronauts, but if I am a ground controler I start to do a systems check and wory that they may be suffering from apoxia. I would think they see many things while in orbit that none of us see, but winged beings is questionable.

Originally posted by grey580
reply to post by TheBlackHat

 

Take a look here.

______beforeitsnews/spirit/2012/12/astronauts-see-angels-2466406.html

1.bp.blogspot.com...

edit on 2-4-2013 by grey580 because: (no reason given)

Need I say more?