North Korea: its all fun and games till someone loses a city.

reply to post by eriktheawful


Ok, Mr. Smartie pants, lol. I've read alot of different sites about NK's military capabilities and I would be inclined to think that despite the overwhelming belief that just because the US has a technological edge over NK that they will be the victor is a bad assumption. At the very least you will see massive casualites on both sides. I found this site to be somewhat informative. Please let me know what you think (NK Military)

There wasn't a reason for me to comment, but I decided it would be good to urge you to brush up on American History. I don't think you recall the Attack on Pearl Harbor and what followed it, we entered WW2 and nuked Japan 4 years later. Our technology has advanced from 68 some years ago when we nuked Japan. Imagine what America has in its arsenal now, what its capable of now, think of the undisclosed weaponry.

I think the issue here is you not using common sense and realizing that the U.S. would in fact destroy N.K. with no damage to our continent, or its people. You're in denial, you'd like to think you're right, but the sad reality for you is that you've underestimated the worlds strongest military power.

In order for N.K. to be able to cause North America any damage, they'd have to have assistance from the big boys living in their backyard.

reply to post by FraternitasSaturni


well thank you for the personal insults.........

And great you have some film of their army marching..........good for you...........the point still stands......

W the fact that NK cannot feed its population, and have this "massive" standing army of soldiers who will be in battle and demand more food and resources the the country can even keep up with should clue you in to just how frail that military infrastructure is......

regardless of how ruthless they are, they can only operate for a short amount of time......

If they tried to storm the border of south korea, they would be met with a force better trained, better equipped , better fed, and supplied by countries with better logistics and infrastructure to handle it........

3. You underestimate your enemy. Specially serious when you're enemy is oriental. Guess vietnamese farmers didnt teach you anything... and you know how the saying goes, "if you dont learn from history..."

You even realize what you just said? You said FARMERS......these people had means to take care of themselves and supply their people with the FOOD they needed to do what they did.....

Why do you think in vietnam we targeted their fields and their supply trains?

To sit here and posit that an army from a country who has a hard time even feeding itself, could last in a ground war is ridiculous.......

5. Table turners - without nuclear war - bio and chem warfare - the north has A LOT. South has none - only has gas masks. Tunnels. SK has more north korean tunnels beneath them then they have ants. Seoul could turn ugly really really fast.

Really? this is what you think of SK? Wow who doesnt know what they are talking about now? Do you have any idea how well SK is supplied or well equiped they are? apparently not.....


You can say what you want, ive spent my time in the military, ive spent my time in logistics and im well aware of the problems faced when trying to supply and keep a standing OPERATING military up in a war zone......

NK does not have the ability to keep an ongoing conflict up .........period end of story......

So you can call me ignorant and call me all the names you feel like you need to.........

Im not some internet armchair general in his teens that doesnt know what hes talking about.......

You say you have military experience yet all of your comments seem to directly contradict that fact........

Then you go on to talk in another post about asymetrical warfare.............again.......you need to be well supplied for that......again.......that means FOOD above all else.......

It doesnt matter how fierce you are, a starving tiger will only fight for so long before it cant anymore.......

For all your military knowledge experience you claim to have, you seem to really really overlook the BASIC factors involved with a ground war.......

Originally posted by sulaw
reply to post by FraternitasSaturni

 

American Arrogance checking in for duty! And the same 1-7 can be stated for you as well or are you the official Military Mastermind in charge of the U.S? No? That's what I thought?~ Truth is nobody know's what's about to happen. Guestimation's are the only logical deduction's and from your post your making N.K to sound like a monster to be feared.

I never knew N.K to be a sleeping Giant~

You're clearly not military. Listen... you have no idea how dangerous are 2 types of soldiers. The well motivated soldier and the cornered "nothing-to-lose" soldier - the U.S is neither. I've fought along side with US troops.

I never said that NK is a sleeping giant... I said that underestimating an enemy which you know nothing about its a bad move. And yes, that attitude can mean the difference between victory and defeat. The US will never actually "lose" against NK. Not a "war" at least - it may (and if it comes to that probably will) lose battles tho. Your patriotic ego does not need to worry. Unless China decides to join the party. Then WE ALL worry - its not like the US its the center of the world.

And chill out... it's not like I've offended your mother. Patriotism shines so much it blinds people.

To end your comment, 2 words. asymmetrical warfare.

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


This South Korean soldier disagrees with your "impenetrable" dmz defense line theory...
I've never been there... who am I to judge...

Are they always prepared for an invasion?
Anonymous soldier: Oh yeah. It’s like Israel.

What would it be like if it did happen?
If the North Koreans did invade, intelligence puts their army at around 1.2 million infantry who would crash the borders at various points. Because of all those landmines put in over the years, we figure they’re going to clear a lane of entry for their troops to punch through using artillery and overwhelming numbers, which means it’s critical the whole line and each piece of real estate is held by each company. If the line is breached at all, we’re pretty much f*ked. Their orders are to hold their real estate for seven minutes—no more, no less.

Seven minutes sounds really specific.
That’s exactly how long it takes to scramble bombers to their location so they can bomb it directly. This is why they often call their little grid the “tomb.” It’s ultimately a suicide zone.

That’s pretty heavy. Where are these jets coming from, exactly?
Jets in the present plan would be coming from Okinawa, Guam, and some of the US aircraft carriers stationed in the Pacific. But by the time the jets take off and drop their bombs, there won’t be any airfields to land and refuel at in South Korea, because all of the airfields are strategic North Korean targets and all of their heavy artillery have the range to hit them easily. That’s why the South Korean air force has top-secret landing zones already set up on highways across the country that are equipped to refuel and rearm planes. But apparently North Korean spies have already confirmed all of these highways anyway.

So basically everybody is f*ked and the defensive plan is hopeless.
Nobody really expects those companies to hold on for that long anyway. It’s a long shot. They’ll not only be getting their area bombed to #, but don’t forget, North Korea has something like 130,000 well-trained special forces, and they’ll probably already be landing on the South Korean coast coming up their ass while they’re holding on for seven minutes.

Coming up their ass doing what?
They’ll be do something called “promoting general chaos,” a military tactic meant to shock your enemy’s will to fight by attacking psychological targets like city halls, police bases, radio stations, water purification plants, hospitals, trains, and even grocery stores. There’s also confirmed intelligence that some North Korean troops will be using South Korean uniforms to confuse people. On top of all that there are the tunnels.

What do you mean, "the tunnels"?
They’ve started finding these tunnels built by the North Koreans that I’ve been to myself, that stretch two and a half miles into South Korean territory. We’re talking tunnels wide enough that every hour a whole battalion could be pumped out of it and just start swarming everything in sight.

Read rest

Btw... I'm 33...

EDIT: like I said I have no idea how they will do it... but... by simply capturing seoul they assure all the supplies they need. Everyone else in history has been doing it... its not like food is a problem, like I said, unless you're attacking russia - The easiest way to get supplies would be to secure seoul as fast as possible. Its 28 miles off the border... you're making sound like Tehran... its not... Its 28 miles.

Although regarding my military experience, it did not rely on supply lines or logistics. But I would appreciate we just leave it at that.

Please let me know what you think (NK Military)

I've read that Rense article before...it's actually quite good, but it's also about 9 years old, so doesn't take a lot of development into account.

For example, the newer Aegis missiles are much better, and would have a much higher success rate, requiring almost double the salvo to penetrate. In addition, more and more vessels have it, which of course, means an unthinkable salvo would be needed to get a missile into a carrier.

It also fails to consider the PAC 3 missiles, and ballistic missile defenses.

Also, in the bunkers, it's true the previous bunker buster could only do 30m, but the new MOPs can do 61m.

The author also radically underestimates the damage of a primary air assault with cruise missiles, stealth drones, stealth bombers and fighters, to radically reduce the effectiveness of any counter-attack. He also radically underestimates the effectiveness of having air superiority.

He does make some excellent points about the NK Naval strength and the effectiveness of their tunnel/bunker structure. This would make any mopping up troop actions be a nightmare for those doing it, but if I were a commander, I would simply focus on killing the regime, and then withdraw and see what new leader rises. If he plays ball, great. If not, rinse and repeat.

One thing that would be different. We would see some Naval casualties on outlying ships of the carrier groups. We'd also see more aircraft casualties.

If NK invaded SK with troops and armor, en masse, there'd be little we could do to stop it. Instead, the tactic would be to solidify the border, contain the invasion force, and reduce it while keeping it from being resupplied.

reply to post by FraternitasSaturni

This South Korean soldier disagrees with your "impenetrable" dmz defense line theory... I've never been there... who am I to judge...

can you please quote me where i said this?

Again........there are SOME things in that article that sound correct, but a lot of it sounds like bunk........and I do not see this as a reputable source........

I notice you use a specific type of source for north korea to make them sound a lot mightier then they are, but then you post an off the wall source from an "anonymous" soldier to bolster your claims on SK.......

Just saying

reply to post by FidelityMusic

In order for N.K. to be able to cause North America any damage, they'd have to have assistance from the big boys living in their backyard.

It wouldn't be a cakewalk....although it would seem that way initially, especially in the press. Oh, we'd swoop in, destroy everything above ground, establish air superiority, and keep any missiles from flying...

But...

We'd also see a lot more aircraft casualties, more naval casualties, and lots of terror-like attacks in SK, and US interests in the area and surrounding areas. NK would engage in a mentality of "total war" with us, and putting boots on the ground in NK is basically a meat grinder. It's a fool's errand, and hopefully no commander is that dumb. You'd have to have a siege mentality with NK, and wait and starve them out...on their own soil...at least until you identified the bunkers and tunnels to bury them in.

reply to post by Gazrok

If NK invaded SK with troops and armor, en masse, there'd be little we could do to stop it. Instead, the tactic would be to solidify the border, contain the invasion force, and reduce it while keeping it from being resupplied.

This is exactly right and what ive been trying to say in previous posts.......add that to the fact...again....they they would have serious issues keeping a military fed.......on top of a prolonged engagement at a border with supply lines being cut.........

IMHO , their standing army would fall pretty quickly

reply to post by Gazrok

I agree with your assumptions, seeing how the paper is roughly nine years old. Especially if NK uses the naval tactics that the Russians developed to deal with the US carrier fleets.

reply to post by FraternitasSaturni


I just wanted to add, that I appreciate the debate on both sides of the spectrum with this and I appreciate you engaging me in it.......

I appolgize if my enthusiasm sometimes comes off condescending, its not my intention.....

reply to post by FraternitasSaturni


And your clearly not top intel on all Military Logistical Intel~

Define not knowing anything about the Enemy? Because I believe that to be a even bigger stretch than you stating that I know only Asymetrical Warfare with Blinded Egotistical Patriotism, which thank you for stating what I am and am not. I was unaware that I didn't know the difference of what I am~ I don't know what's more arrogant my harmless post or a grown man thinking he's the Axis and Ally commander in cheif because he's served next to a US soldier.

The sleeping Giant quote was a joke, take it with a grain of salt.

And to end your comment, YOU OFFENDED MY MOTHER~!

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

This is exactly right and what ive been trying to say in previous posts.......add that to the fact...again....they they would have serious issues keeping a military fed.......on top of a prolonged engagement at a border with supply lines being cut.........

IMHO , their standing army would fall pretty quickly

Not as quickly as you'd think though... The tunnels are extensive, and no doubt go to sympathetic parties in China also. It would be nearly impossible to cut all their supply lines, and many bunkers actually make weapons, process food, etc. I think most in the west would be very surprised at the kind of underground infrastructure they have. In fact, it's the whole reason we developed the MOP in the first place...because our previous bunker busters couldn't hit hardened NK positions. These can though.

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

The whole bunker thing (about burying them alive), that's if there's only one way in or out. I think there's more then one entrance plus that fact that these bunkers are connected.

reply to post by RedShirt73


Very true, but you'd concentrate on those locations that are critical (Command/HQ, manufacturing, supplies, etc.)

Also, the Russian naval tactics have lost a lot of validity, but unlike the middle eastern actions (which didn't have an opposing Navy...) NK does...

he promised improved living conditions after daddy died. he can't deliver, so he is distracting the people with war talk and trying to fend out military leaders who doubt him internally

he is not speaking to the US, he is speaking to his people and propping himself up

don't fall for it

reply to post by Gazrok

NK does have a big submarine force but I don't think they could cope with the US technical superiority in this area at least not for a sustained period of time. Not saying that the North Koreans couldn't do some serious damage to the US fleet but it may cost the US a couple of carriers. Plus you have to think of the surface-to-surface/anti-ship missiles NK has in it's arsenal.

reply to post by RedShirt73


Aegis and Phalanx would negate the majority of that threat to the carriers, but no doubt they may take some damage. The more pressing threat would be to the carrier group support ships. Unlike the Gulf Wars, we WILL see ship casualties in a NK confrontation. Thing is, we Americans are used to being untouchable in the water...so seeing this on the news is going to be "shocking" to the average American who isn't aware of an enemy with some actual capabilities on the sea.

reply to post by syrinx high priest

he promised improved living conditions after daddy died. he can't deliver, so he is distracting the people with war talk and trying to fend out military leaders who doubt him internally

he is not speaking to the US, he is speaking to his people and propping himself up

don't fall for it

Oh, little doubt...but he's also only been in power what...18 months or so? So, he's still a little bit of an unknown factor. For all we know, he's just nutty enough to believe in his own little fantasy land...so we have to take the threat at least somewhat seriously....until we know how he plays ball.

reply to post by syrinx high priest


The scary thing is un has got himself into a corner,either he backes his words up with action or face losing ligitimacy,although his father managed to hold on to power with the same verbose behavior so i dont expect anything to happen but who knows, April fools day is just around the corner..