U.S. Senate Approves the Keystone Pipeline: Final Vote 62 to 37 !

Originally posted by maus80
reply to post by Evanzsayz

 

bahahaha....oh. U.S. oil exports are up to 1.6 million barrels a day, but that has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

Actually it is since were talking about an oil pipeline to sustain americas demand on oil. Where did you hear we export that much oil per day...TV? Who in their right mind would export oil if they don't have a surplus? YOU CANT! Obviously you have no idea what your talking about...

It's like saying for the simple minded person like you...if my country produces 55 peanut butter sandwiches a day and their demand is 65...yet we give away 10 of those sandwiches to other countries it leaves us with -20. It makes so sense at all since we can't meet our demand...so whatever you heard youve been lied to buddy...dont believe everything you hear...go research it for yourself.

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

I'm not trying to uproot you from your own beliefs, I just think that we need to be honest and look at this for what it is.

It's not American oil.

There's no guarantee it will be sold in America.

People that do not want the pipeline will lose land through imminent domain.

and

Transcanada gets to rake in the profits while the pipe runs right through the middle of our nation, just to be shipped elsewhere.

Is it just me that sees we may just be getting the short end of the stick?

edit on 23-3-2013 by sheepslayer247 because: (no reason given)

At least someone has been paying attention. This oil is for export only none will be sold here in the states. The oil companies have even said our price of gas may go up because of it. Also in the long run it will cost more jobs than it will create. And now they want the tax payers to pay for a pipeline to be built for private companies to profit from while whining we pay too much in taxes. Who is actually stupid enough to want this?

reply to post by TauCetixeta


If they move forward on this thing fast enough there might still be time to kill the Northern Gateway across the mountains for delivery to the Chinese.. Both would be good for the Western Canadian economy however. But it makes more sense to build it on flat land instead of over the mountains you would think.

Originally posted by neo96
Wow Amerikan energy "independence" ???????

Until China got involved it was deader than a doornail that Canadian oil is going to China.

Actually no oil will be exported. It's tar sands oil which is dirty oil it costs more to refine into gas and diesel. This is what will be exported they will sell where they get the highest price. Where would you sell your gas where they sell by the gallon or by the liter?

You will call me a socialist but if the American taxpayers are paying for this pipeline then the oil should in the most part belong to the American people free of charge. Why should we pay for something only to turn around and be charged for it again? And there is no need for it to go to Texas there are plenty of refineries here in the Midwest that can refine the oil.

If the oil companies are making so much money they can pay for it.

Originally posted by Evanzsayz

Originally posted by maus80
reply to post by Evanzsayz

 

bahahaha....oh. U.S. oil exports are up to 1.6 million barrels a day, but that has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

Actually it is since were talking about an oil pipeline to sustain americas demand on oil. Where did you hear we export that much oil per day...TV? Who in their right mind would export oil if they don't have a surplus? YOU CANT! Obviously you have no idea what your talking about...

It's like saying for the simple minded person like you...if my country produces 55 peanut butter sandwiches a day and their demand is 65...yet we give away 10 of those sandwiches to other countries it leaves us with -20. It makes so sense at all since we can't meet our demand...so whatever you heard youve been lied to buddy...dont believe everything you hear...go research it for yourself.

edit on 24-3-2013 by Evanzsayz because: (no reason given)

You are right he is wrong. We exported way more than that.

Texas Gulf Coast refiners that would be the main recipients of Keystone-shipped crude already exported more than 60% of the gasoline they produced, 40% of their diesel output and 95% of their petroleum coke in 2012. It based its numbers on U.S. Census Bureau data. "These guys are already well into an export trend, and there's every reason to believe that will only increase" with Keystone, said Stephen Kretzman, the group's executive director.

Refiners agree figures show the Gulf area exports a lot of its output, but say that is no reason to shun Keystone XL. "The Gulf Coast is long on refining capacity and short on demand. Exports will continue with or without Keystone XL," said Bill Day, a spokesman for Valero VLO +0.50% Energy Corp., which just expanded its refinery in Port Arthur, Texas. "But exporting products is a good thing—it …increases the utilization rate, keeps refinery employees on the job and helps the trade deficit."

Oil Exports Spur More Questions About Pipeline

reply to post by buster2010


Thanks Buster, I guess my info was a few years outdated. What was my simple mind thinking?

I have to say.. This has been a very very long night. I hadn't intended to and it wasn't something I really had time for ..but I ended up spending pretty much the whole night in papers and reports about this pipeline and ...MUCH more. I definitely want to say at this point, I didn't know the half of the issues surrounding what the pipeline is actually only one part of. It's an important part though and TransCanada can just keep it. In fact, they can rightly stuff it.

The people who've said this will all be exported are absolutely right. The U.S. market will see whatever token amount they deem necessary to keep the worst criticism at bay and that, as they say, will be that. What took over half the night I spent on this was understanding WHY that's true. That, I need to take a bit of time to consider and think about how or if I really want to touch this one. I still can't find much for reference anywhere around for what I came across for connections..and I have to wonder why.

My main point for coming back though, is to say my first comments on here were made before I had all this reading and research done. I'm 180 degree from where I was and am 100% against their pipeline. It's not for the main reasons being talked about so far, either...but they can absolutely stick it.

LMAO!!!

then the oil should in the most part belong to the American people free of charge

That was funny, you made us all laugh.

Alberta will send the oil sands oil down south free of charge.

What type of fantasy have you been living in?

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by neo96
Wow Amerikan energy "independence" ???????

Until China got involved it was deader than a doornail that Canadian oil is going to China.

Actually no oil will be exported. It's tar sands oil which is dirty oil it costs more to refine into gas and diesel. This is what will be exported they will sell where they get the highest price. Where would you sell your gas where they sell by the gallon or by the liter?

You will call me a socialist but if the American taxpayers are paying for this pipeline then the oil should in the most part belong to the American people free of charge. Why should we pay for something only to turn around and be charged for it again? And there is no need for it to go to Texas there are plenty of refineries here in the Midwest that can refine the oil.

If the oil companies are making so much money they can pay for it.

edit on 24-3-2013 by buster2010 because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-3-2013 by buster2010 because: (no reason given)

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Well done Wrabbit!

The real fact of the matter is, it makes much more Economic sense for Canada to build a refinery right next to the tar sand areas, refine it, sell the end product which is where the money is and leftover tar trash could go back in the tar sand area.

The Canadian citizens and the US citizens will barely see a cent from this so the real question is who is making all the money. The same people as usual.

P

reply to post by sheepslayer247


Will I be getting cut a check since the tax payers will be paying for this?
Guessing it will go to the usual Big Business Socialists.

Originally posted by maus80
reply to post by buster2010

 

Thanks Buster, I guess my info was a few years outdated. What was my simple mind thinking?

edit on 24-3-2013 by maus80 because: add txt

Yeah it's up to 2.4 million and these people are complaining we need more? If they can export so much then drop the price here by keeping some here. They could drop it to two dollars a gallon and still make a good profit. I see no reason to be greedy.

reply to post by jacobe001


I have not dug into all of the funding aspects, but I believe this will be paid for with private funds.

No taxpayer money will be needed.

But there will be lots of tax-breaks given to Transcanada by state and local governments; forcing the taxpayer to cover any shortfalls.

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by maus80
reply to post by buster2010

 

Thanks Buster, I guess my info was a few years outdated. What was my simple mind thinking?

edit on 24-3-2013 by maus80 because: add txt

Yeah it's up to 2.4 million and these people are complaining we need more? If they can export so much then drop the price here by keeping some here. They could drop it to two dollars a gallon and still make a good profit. I see no reason to be greedy.

Prices will not drop.

From what I understand, oil production has increased under Obama but the prices never go down as supply go up.

That's why I find it funny that some believe this pipeline will help at the pump. Nothing ever changes the price of gas except for short supply and politics.

We are being screwed!

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
The people who've said this will all be exported are absolutely right. The U.S. market will see whatever token amount they deem necessary to keep the worst criticism at bay and that, as they say, will be that. What took over half the night I spent on this was understanding WHY that's true. That, I need to take a bit of time to consider and think about how or if I really want to touch this one. I still can't find much for reference anywhere around for what I came across for connections..and I have to wonder why.

My main point for coming back though, is to say my first comments on here were made before I had all this reading and research done. I'm 180 degree from where I was and am 100% against their pipeline. It's not for the main reasons being talked about so far, either...but they can absolutely stick it.

I'm glad we are finally on the same side of something. It's been long over due.

I'd be interested to know what information you came across to change your mind. As, believe it or not, I do see you as one of the better posters.

It doesn't seem to be the environmental dangers but something you've discovered about why it's being exported? Just curious.

Originally posted by sheepslayer247

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by maus80
reply to post by buster2010

 

Thanks Buster, I guess my info was a few years outdated. What was my simple mind thinking?

edit on 24-3-2013 by maus80 because: add txt

Yeah it's up to 2.4 million and these people are complaining we need more? If they can export so much then drop the price here by keeping some here. They could drop it to two dollars a gallon and still make a good profit. I see no reason to be greedy.

Prices will not drop.

From what I understand, oil production has increased under Obama but the prices never go down as supply go up.

That's why I find it funny that some believe this pipeline will help at the pump. Nothing ever changes the price of gas except for short supply and politics.

We are being screwed!

Actually they could drop the prices because oil speculation which the price is based on is nothing but fantasy. The price is also based on inflation.

reply to post by buster2010


Too true.

The oil market is not completely driven by supply and demand (only higher prices when supply is short). Speculation plays a much bigger role.

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
reply to post by jacobe001

 

I have not dug into all of the funding aspects, but I believe this will be paid for with private funds.

No taxpayer money will be needed.

But there will be lots of tax-breaks given to Transcanada by state and local governments; forcing the taxpayer to cover any shortfalls.

Thanks for explaining that.
I think we still are still paying for it though out of the gas money we pay for, which is inflated due to rigged supply and demand and wall street speculation.

I'm going to sleep on the part of this I'm really disturbed by on several levels. It's about that time anyway and I'm barely focusing after reading all night. Anyway, it wouldn't be fair not to at least share what I picked up and had first intended to be chasing as the main story. It'll be an entirely new thread if I do something with the other part of it. It won't be on this one. Just OT enough and far too much work for a simple reply.

Here is what I'd already accumulated though, and again, I'm beat so I'm offering this in the quick version.

What is the Pipeline exactly?

The Keystone Pipeline already exists. What doesn’t is its proposed expansion, the Keystone XL Pipeline. The existing one runs from oil sand fields in Alberta, Canada into the U.S., ending in Cushing, Oklahoma.

The 1,700 new miles of pipeline would offer two sections of expansion. First, it would connect Cushing, Oklahoma, where there is a current bottleneck of oil, with the Gulf Coast of Texas, where oil refineries abound. Second, it would include a new section from Alberta to Kansas. It would pass through Bakken Shale region of eastern Montana and western North Dakota. Here, it will pass through a region where oil extraction is currently booming and take on some of this crude for transport.

Source

That was my first surprise. Keystone itself has been built from the tar sands right into Oklahoma and just pumping right on away for quite awhile now. This is an additional spur/extension line of the existing one. It's amaaaazing how many reports I read that failed to mention that minor detail.

Or how many maps sure didn't look like THIS one.

U.S. Pipelines Oil/Gas/Products

Or this one....

Existing as well as planned Canadian cross border pipelines

Funny, I see so little mention of the full blown network of pipes that already run over the border and have for a long time now in some cases. There was mention of thousands of reported spills from one cross border line, so I went to look that up and found how patently absurd and silly that number likely was as quoted around the net.

The requirement for reporting oil spills stems from the Discharge of Oil Regulation, known as the "sheen rule." Under this regulation, oil spill reporting does not depend on the specific amount of oil spilled, but on the presence of a visible sheen created by the spilled oil. Reporting an oil discharges may also be required under the Spill Prevention, Control, and Countermeasure (SPCC) Rule. For more information on reporting oil discharges, please see:

Source

The EPA these days isn't one to screw with, either. I'd imagine they DO report anything noticeable by regulation. The fines and hits the EPA gives out almost like it's fun are just too much to really play at. I saw that myself with the new lead regulations for simple window replacement and basic remodel jobs in construction. It's ...staggering.


- This is another site with good, solid maps of the current pipelines as well as the currently operational Keystone pipeline with the planned one aside it.

Crude Pipelines: Arteries of the North American Energy Industry


- Here is the state department report coverage which showed minimal environmental impact (Someone asked about that and I came across it)

Canada-U.S. Oil Pipeline Poses Few Environmental Risks -- State Dept.


- Finally, the best for last without getting into what I may do another thread for is...

US Pipelines w/ toll amounts charged - Refineries w/ capacity nationwide - Canadian Production Numbers (2011 est.)

A couple people had asked about more for what it was all about and I think the above covers most of the important aspects from a factual standpoint. Draw your own conclusions and I stick with my previous note on being against the extension on export probability of most or all of it. Find another transshipment point, is my overall feeling. Now very strongly held, too.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Great info Wrabbit!

Some of this I have not seen either.

U2U me when you get your thread together. I'd like to see what you have up your sleeve.

reply to post by TauCetixeta


Worst news I've heard in a long time. The Keystone XL Pipeline will help nothing and solve nothing but only serve to make matters worse especially from an enviornmental standpoint. The jobs that have been promised will be temporary at best and most will go the Canadians anyway, the oil will be sold off to whoever will pay for it and doesn't mean the US. It's a joke a complete money grab by big oil once more.