I Was a Victim: The Steubenville Rape Case is Not Isolated!!

Snipped rude comment--

2) As a man, I don't blame female rape victims for wanting to kill all men. That is a perfectly reasonable emotional response to being assaulted.

3) If she were my daughter, those boys, including all who participated in any way or stood by while it happened, as well as the coach and any other adults who helped cover it up, would die horrible deaths. And that is where we need to be with this. The only justice for a rapist is death.

I honestly do not know what the problem is. I think it may have something to do with parents always protecting their kids whenever they get into trouble, and treating them like they are something special when compared to other people. I did not have to be told that rape was wrong to know this, as it is common sense. Anyone who would do this obviously has no respect for anyone else, which is just mind-blowing to me. They are not thinking about the other person at all, obviously, and do not care that they are literally scarring these women for life.

I have never heard of a rape case that turned out well for the victim. And what makes this all worse is that people try to cover it up, blame the victim, and act like it never occurred. The only situation where the victim could remotely be blamed is if a consensual act were already taking place, or if the story was completely made up. That is part of the problem too I think, because it is true that some women, usually teenagers, do make up allegations. I have seen it in back when I was in high school. It probably does not happen nearly as often as actual rape, but it is something to be considered.

But it is not right to automatically assume the person is lying. This is the whole point of innocent until proven guilty. This process drags things out for the victim, but it is essential to justice, because justice does not always mean punishing the accused. Something definitely needs to be done though. Stupid kids like this who think they are entitled to something because they have money, and are popular in school, both of which mean nothing, think they can get away with something like this, and these are the same types of people who run many of the big businesses that screw people over for profit.

It is the same mindset, and something that I have been trying to articulate on ATS for some time, although I never made this particular connection before until thinking about rape by people like this. It is stereotypical in a sense, but most stereotypes hold true to at least a small degree, although to an even greater degree in this case. If nothing is going to be done to prevent crimes like this from occurring, at the very least they should punish these people to the fullest. It does not matter how old they were, because they are old enough to know that rape is vile and illegal. There is just no excuse.

Especially considering what they did after the fact. Not only were none of them remorseful, they were bragging about it and insulting the girl. Talk about feeling untouchable...They were not afraid of being punished, not because they did not care about being caught, but because they did not think they would be caught. Or if they were caught, they thought that they would not be punished. Someone had a good idea for people like this...Do not lock them up, just castrate them and let them go. I do not think that is too harsh a punishment.

They should give up their right to a normal sex life in the future because of their act, considering what it does to the victim. I'm sure some of them would rather be castrated than spend the amount of time they should spend in jail. I think they should be jailed, not in juvenile, but regular prison for at least a decade. That is what happens when you violate someone's civil liberties and personal rights. That kind of thing is no joke. What is ten years when you have ruined an innocent person's life. And before you say that it does not ruin the victims' lives, just ask a victim...Nothing is the same after that happens.

Originally posted by NavyDoc
What I find so annoying is the whole "star football player" crap as if playing a game very well makes one morally superior or more important than another. If fact, I would opine that "star football players" tend to be less moral than their non-sports playing peers because the sports stars have been told they are above the rules and are special over and over again.

Isn't this an extension of our society's worship of money?

These jerks, not only gave this sad rustbelt town a winning high school football team, but they had the potential (maybe?) of turning pro eventually and bringing in the big bucks.

I'm sure one of the reasons their families are so angry is because those potential meal tickets have been taken away. Those dreams are dead.

Wonder if they'll be raped in prison?

Originally posted by groingrinder
If they took off a mans penis when he raped someone things would change. Guys do it because society lets them get away with it.

Not necessarily. People can be raped with foreign objects. Removing the penis would not elimate all rape.

Rape is really about violence, power, and hate.

Why do these men have such intense hatred & contempt for women?

reply to post by Grumble


1) You should learn the difference between "apologist" and "realist". There have been few apologists but quite a few realists in this thread.

2) Yes, it's "perfectly reasonable" to want to murder all men because of the actions of one person that happens to be male. (That was sarcasm).

3) This confirms that you are a psychopath. Perhaps it is good for society that you are not judge, jury or executioner in this or any case involving emotional topics.

reply to post by Starwise



By now you have certainly heard of Traci Lords who has bravely spoken out.

After all these years she's still known as the "EX PORN STAR".

Sad. I am proud of BOTH of you. BTW, rape culture has been around for a long time and it isn't just the USA, But then, you knew that.

reply to post by Caterminator


Traci Lords is from Steubenville and was raped by her father when she was ten...I know that not everyone in the town can be characterized by a few people's actions but I've gotta say, Steubenville is starting to move its way up the ranks on my "Dangerous Cities that I Never Wanna Get Stuck In" list. You know...all of your basics like NYC and Chicago and LA, southern border towns in Arizona and Texas and New Mexico because of Mexican cartel violence spilling over, New Orleans for its insane post-Katrina murder rates, most of Florida for its alaming culture of partying/drugs-related crimes and children going missing, and now some nowhere town in Ohio that seems to have a few too many well publicised rapes. Yup...cross Steubenville off of the list of places that I wanna move to and raise a family in.

Wrong forum. Sorry.

Originally posted by Starwise

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by Druscilla

 

If most of the men on this planet were just ... gone, we wouldn't have this problem at all. The left over men could be like domestic animals.

Lots of anger there. There can't be any men that qualify as human beings because they all look at women like sex objects. Give us some credit, its the individual that commits rape not the collective sex. If a man takes the step to rape a woman then he is solely responsible for his actions and according to the laws of the country he should be punished.

edit on 20-3-2013 by Bilky because: (no reason given)

reply to post by jcutler12888

Traci Lords is from Steubenville and was raped by her father when she was ten

Does Traci Lords lurk on Ats?

Wow! Waking up seeing how much further this thread has moved is very humbling.

I want to say something before I log off (it is my husbands birthday today)

I was 15 yrs old when I was assaulted, by a guy I knew in highschool. It happened in front of his friends at a party. Yes I was weak and a little drunk. But still not my fault. It spread throughout the school and I was called horrible names, but mostly a slut. Nobody cared about the guy who did it. I never actually reported it to the police. I had been molested by my mothers husband prior to that....My family did not believe me anyway. I eventually moved out of town and in with my father who wanted to kill!!! He was the only one that believed me. It took my step mother to get me help I needed. I love her so much! I am so thankful she is still my step mom, but now I see her as my REAL mom! When in a new highschool far enough away where nobody knew me, I began to heal. When I was 18 in 12th grade I brought home a new boyfriend and my father ALWAYS opened the door while holding his 44 magnum with an 8inch barrel. LOL. It was embarrassing but I did not mind. My father taught me how to shoot and gave me a gun.

Power goes both ways, as I had felt powerless, I turned around to become the powerful! Always trying to prove how strong I was.

When I was in the Army, I actually felt protected by peers in my squad. I never once felt insecure around male soldiers in my company. Strange huh? I met my current husband in the Army. He is my deepest treasure, who respects me more than anyone.

So off to go celebrate his birthday.

I would love to get a chance to speak to more of you who have posted since last night, but it will have to wait until later.

HUGS

Originally posted by Druscilla

Originally posted by AnonyWarp
instead of eradicating males only?

Following a simple logic, males and females are equals, so why not exterminating both ?

edit on 19-3-2013 by AnonyWarp because: (no reason given)

Hmmm. Gender and Crime

In 2004, males were almost 10 times more likely than females to commit murder, including rape-homicides. However, men are also far more likely than women to be the victims of violent crime, with the exception of rape.

That's a 10:1 ratio.

Sound balanced and equal to you?

While the scenario for a Y-Chromosome targeted high mortality infectious bio-weapon is extreme, and Science Fiction at that, with statistics similar to above fairly common fare, it's certainly entertaining to speculate what this planet would look like, and how it would function if males were limited down to a small 10% of the overall global population.

Biologically, sperm is cheap. Biologically, men aren't as important or needed as much as they might like to think they are for the perpetuation of the species.
We don't need or require brutes with spears to go out into the wilds and hunt anymore.
The planet can get along quite fine and well with men playing an minor extreme minority role population-wise.

If 90% of the male population were to just disappear tomorrow, it'd be barely a hiccup in tripping up the planet, and even a benefit to the overall well being of everyone else left over.

Yea you know it's funny when someone drops statistics like that about african American people and lead into conclusion with seperation of white's and people of mixed nationality. They are called rasict. And you are sexist. not sure i agree with the stigma's because i see dsyfunction primarily in other race's i make this call through experience.Thats why i won't mix out of race. And without a doubt, you probably have plenty of girl friends.

Originally posted by AuranVector

Originally posted by NavyDoc
What I find so annoying is the whole "star football player" crap as if playing a game very well makes one morally superior or more important than another. If fact, I would opine that "star football players" tend to be less moral than their non-sports playing peers because the sports stars have been told they are above the rules and are special over and over again.

Isn't this an extension of our society's worship of money?

These jerks, not only gave this sad rustbelt town a winning high school football team, but they had the potential (maybe?) of turning pro eventually and bringing in the big bucks.

I'm sure one of the reasons their families are so angry is because those potential meal tickets have been taken away. Those dreams are dead.

Wonder if they'll be raped in prison?

Money is simply a medium of exchange. It is an example of warped priorities. No one knows the captainof the math club but everyone knows the captain of the football team. Illiterate thugs make millions of dollars for playing a child's game while teachers get paid squat. Our priorities are warped.

Originally posted by MrWendal

Originally posted by Druscilla
Blame the victim. Always blame the victim.
She was just asking for it the way she was dressed.
She should have known better than to go that part of town.
She shouldn't have gone to the party alone.
Associating with those kinds of people was an invitation.
...

Essentially we should all wear burkas, and be escorted everywhere we go, and only then to approved places to do approved activities, otherwise we're asking for it?

It's attitudes like this that cause me to entertain scenarios illustrated in my previous post.

If most of the men on this planet were just ... gone, we wouldn't have this problem at all.
The left over men could be like domestic animals.

edit on 19-3-2013 by Druscilla because: (no reason given)

No one is blaming the victim, however individuals do play a role in the things that happen to them in some cases. In this case, she got drunk to a point where she had no control. If you walk across the street without looking for oncoming traffic, and you get hit by a car, who's fault is it? Is it the fault of the driver or the person who did not look both ways before crossing the street? Or is it a combination of both?

Fact is, the girl is a victim but she also shares some responsibility in what happened to her.

I think I see your point. It is wise to take precautions to avoid crime from locking your door to not drink to the point you passed out. Simply pointing that out is not, in and of itself, blaming the victim.

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by MrWendal

 

Fair enough.. Sorry for being so abrasive!

How much did she actually drink?

I know she claimed (at least at one point) that she believed she had been drugged.

No need to apologize. This is a sensitive topic and people get emotional over these types of issues and justifiably so. There is nothing funny about rape.

Yes she claimed to a friend that she thought she was drugged, test results from the hospital were negative.

From what I read she drank a few beers, some vodka, and a few other things. Nothing I read was very specific about how much she had to drink, but one thing is for sure. She drank enough to pass out. She drank enough that people carried her body from one house party, to another party, to another party and a basement. If I recall correctly, she left the first party with one of her assailants hand in hand. So she walked out of the first party, but was carried to the others- but that is from memory so I could be wrong.

What unnerved me about this whole story was the fact no one did anything. Not one person thought, damn this girl needs help; we need to get her home/hospital, or just get her to lay down...

I was about 19 when at a party a similar situation had started. I was not drinking, but I saw this girl basically passed out, and some guys moving her to a back bed room. I watch as they went in and shut the door, (about 5 guys)... I thought wtf is going on... No one else was doing anything. So I looked at my cousin and we busted down the door, and thankfully we go in there when we did. We took the girl and got her the hell out of there. What was going to happen would have been similar to what occurred in this case... I remember getting her in the car with the guys yelling, throwing stuff, and punch being thrown. We could not get her to wake up, so I searched her and fortunately she had her ID on her. We took her home, and her mom was crying when we told her what almost happened to her daughter. She invited us in, and we got to listen to her story about how the father died, and she was a single mom and could not handle her daughters partying and laying around..... So if this would have happened to this girl, everyone would just have assumed it was her doing her thing..... My cousin and myself went back to the house later on, and confronted the guys.. And whopped some ass (we had help, got his older brother, and couple of friends)....

I was raised with 3 sisters. I cherish them, If they ever came to me and said something happened, I would of went crazy.. But fortunately for me they either never told me anything happened or nothing happened.. I gave them a pocket knife, and told them how to use it. I always told them if they are out partying to never drink a drink someone made for them, never drink out of Dixie cups, always drink a brand new drink if they left theirs unattended....

Men were not given strength to use that against women/child/old.. Men were given strength to stand up for those who cannot stand up for themselves. This might even be another man, I personally have a very bad back, most people think I can fight or very strong. 6'4 225lbs, I have the frame and size, but with my back I could not even fight anymore.... It scares me to think that I would have to rely on other men to help me out in a dire time...

I would never blame the victim of any crime. Yes this type of thing happens often, far to often. Its not the victims fault, it’s the fault of the people who perpetrate these crimes. Their ethics/morals and human compassion have been twisted, distorted. Do I believe these kids should be killed for their crimes, NO. Yes what they did was very disturbing. Do I think their sentence is light, oh hell yeah. The victim is going to be a victim for life, because of what they did, they will still have a chance to live a semi-normal life (well being a felon kinda kills some things). I hate calling her a victim for life, a survivor? Maybe better?.. But she will have to live with what happened, all the names, all the threats, all the looks. I pray that she does not fall into a deep depression, I pray that she becomes strong and stands up and says I am not a victim, I survived a horrific ordeal and voice her story so others can learn, feel her pain…

Okay I better get to work before I get to riled up….

Searching for that PIE!

Originally posted by LoverBoy
reply to post by MrWendal

 

Very well put! Rape is inexcusable. But why in the hell do some people choose to put themselves in a situation that could have completely been avoided for them with the use of common sense.

Well it is a very common theme...

I didn't think it would happen to me.

Using this case as an example, this girl went to school with these people. These were end of the school year type of parties so it is safe to assume she had known these people for a minimum of one year. She probably trusted that the people she was partying with would not rape her. The statistics say that a lot of rape victims know their attacker, but who thinks of these statistics in the moment? I didn't at that age and neither did any of the people I was partying with.

Originally posted by MrWendal

Originally posted by LoverBoy
reply to post by MrWendal

 

Very well put! Rape is inexcusable. But why in the hell do some people choose to put themselves in a situation that could have completely been avoided for them with the use of common sense.

Well it is a very common theme...

I didn't think it would happen to me.

Using this case as an example, this girl went to school with these people. These were end of the school year type of parties so it is safe to assume she had known these people for a minimum of one year. She probably trusted that the people she was partying with would not rape her. The statistics say that a lot of rape victims know their attacker, but who thinks of these statistics in the moment? I didn't at that age and neither did any of the people I was partying with.

I tell my daughters not to drink too much, not to accept an open drink from someone they donot know and trust, not to walk alone down dark streets, to own mace or teargas or a CCW. Advising one not to set themselves up to be a victim is not blaming them and actually can empower them. However, we can all agree, that when all is said and done, the only one who bears responsability for a rape is the rapist, regardless the choices the victim made before hand. Avoiding foolish choices is good and a way to reduce risk, however, not avoiding foolish choices does not create culpability.

reply to post by Arrancar


I can relate to your story.... there is a reason I say that I have zero tolerance for people who prey on the weak.

Many many moons ago when I was16 or 17 years old I was doing much the same thing this girl was doing. Partying on the weekends, drinking and smoking pot. End of the year school parties? Absolutely! I went to all the parties. I had a friend I worked with who was 21. He was from Arizona. I was 16 or 17 at that time and living in Kansas. I met him through my job at a pizza place. We hung out together and he was my friend.

One night I took him to a house party full of high school kids that I knew from school. After a couple hours a group of these kids went to get more alcohol. They left in 3 vehicles and one of those people was my friend. He had a 16 year old girl riding in his car with him. She was drunk... not passed out drunk, but over her limit.

Some of us began wondering if anything was wrong cause it took them a while to get back. Eventually the first car pulled up, then the second. The third car, which was my friend still had not returned. Of course I asked the other guys about my friend and they told a strange story. He ditched them. He turned off on another street and they tried to follow him to see what was going on and why he turned off and stopped following. They ended up losing him. It was about an hour later when he did return and I met him in the road. The girl jumped out of the car crying, and I pulled her aside and asked her what was wrong. She told me my friend raped her.

Another guy overheard the girl tell me this and grabbed my friend and dragged him into the front yard of the house and began beating him up. Several others joined in. I was still with the girl and was getting the whole story and all the details. After getting all the stories and processing all the information, I had no doubt that my friend did rape this girl. I got the word out that I was taking my friend out of there. I told them I would handle it. For some reason, I still don't know why, but they believed me and stopped beating him and just let me take him away.

I told my friend I was getting him out of there and he thought I was his knight in shining armor. Little did he know I was the farthest thing from being his savior. What he didn't know is that I was felt responsible for what happened to this girl. I was the idiot who brought a 21 year old man to a party of drunk high school kids. If it was not for me bringing him to the party, this never would have happened. I can not begin to describe the level of guilt I felt....which quickly turned to anger.

Instead of driving him home in his car, I drove him to another well known party spot. It was back in a wooded area at the top of a dam. Roughly a 50 foot drop, maybe more, to a stream and a lot of rocks below. When we got to the spot, it was empty. No one was there because all the high school kids were at the numerous house parties that were going on. I stopped the car, got out, opened the passenger door and dragged my friend out and I lost all control.

My plan was to finish the beating I felt he deserved, then I was going to kill him. I planned to throw his body off the dam thinking it would either float downstream or if it didn't the chances were good that no one would find the body at the bottom. I remember what happened next very vividly, almost as if it had just happened yesterday....

I was punching him, kicking kicking him, and beating the hell out of this guy. I began steering him to the edge of the dam. At times walking him back by getting in his face and at other times dragging him. Every time I hit him, every time he was able to get up, I made sure that I was in a position that allowed me to get him to the edge of that dam. If he was down and I was kicking him.... I was kicking him towards that dam. I was really going to do the unthinkable and kill this guy. All the while he was pleading for me to stop and asking me why I was doing this. He was swearing to me, to God, to anything that matters that he did not rape this girl. I wouldn't listen. I didn't believe him. My mind was made up and feeling responsible I was going to make it right....

(out of room ..continued on next post)

Then suddenly a truck with 3 people in it comes pulling up. I heard the truck coming and turned my head to look. The truck began turning around to leave (this was a party spot and there was obviously no party tonight), and as it turned it was right in front of me. Headlights directly on me. I saw them look at me,and in this moment my mind was racing. Only word going through my mind was "witnesses". Then the truck was gone.

I turned to finish the job, but to my shock, my friend was gone. In the moments I was watching this truck (which was maybe 30 seconds of time at the most) he had got up and ran. I never heard him run off. Again this was a wooded area, I would have heard a twig break, leaves rustle, I would have heard something. But no, I did not head anything at all. He had simply vanished silently while I was distracted.

I have no idea where he was hiding. There was not many places to go. He would have had to get past me (which he did not), or take that 50 foot drop. I looked all around and he was no where to be seen. It was at this point that I panicked. I left in his car and drove it to his home. I left the keys in the ignition and I began wiping the car down to remove fingerprints. I wiped the keys, the whole inside of the car, and every inch of the outside. I then broke a window and tore up the inside of the car as if a fight had happened in the car. I broke the rear view mirror off, broke the turn signal switch, then walked away.

I had to work the next day. It was a Saturday or Sunday. There was no school that day since it was the weekend which is why I was scheduled to open the place. My friend was also scheduled to work.

When I arrived at work my boss told me that my friend had called in and quit. All he said was that he was moving back to Arizona. When I got off work that afternoon, I went straight to his house and sure enough the home was empty. Nothing was left inside and he was gone.

Sorry for such a long post. I have never told this story before so I guess this is my version of a confession of sorts. This was the only time in my life I can honestly say I would have killed another human being. On that night, I was going to become a murderer and it is something I will never forget. I will never forget the emotions, the rage, the guilt. Thankfully, I didn't become a murderer that night. This guy's life was saved by a truck of people who were looking for a party and if it were not for that truck- this completely random act- I'd probably be in prison right now or on death row.