Tianyuan Man scientists unlock secrets of ancient DNA

reply to post by soficrow


It's interesting that we all have that connection eh?
Kind of puts the whole world into perspective.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Uh huh, I do think the 'mitochondrial Eve' idea is tres cool - but your source article says the theory has come into question. I didn't know that - makes me wonder if alien tinkering really does explain racial difference and Ms. Lessing's Shikasta might be true.

In recent years, however, the African Eve theory, which relied heavily on the evolution of the mitochondrial genome, has come under fire.

Some palaeoanthropologists in China, for instance, said fossil evidence showed that present-day Chinese evolved from a population that had survived bitter ice ages and resisted the invasion of new migrants from Africa.

reply to post by soficrow


It's interesting to ponder but consider a string of holiday lights tossed into a box without proper storage. Come next year we spend a good deal of time unraveling the tangle. Sometimes what appears to be the right way to untangle it only makes things worse.

A bit philosophical I know...

Originally posted by Chrisfishenstein

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

I find it fascinating that we know more about our planet and it's inhabitants from 65 million years ago than we do from 40,000 years ago.


Another brilliant find!

Yeah.....Nothing compared to Nothing....

Carbon testing is a joke......If you held a spear in front of me I could tell you it anywhere from 1,000 to 4,000 years old and I would be right.....Not only that you wouldn't accept that answer, yet everyday they do that to us!

This bone is from a dinosaur anywhere from 10,000 to 650 million years old.......Why spend the money on the employees and the testing? It is a complete and utter joke!

Carbon dating may not be perfect, but I'm not so sure I would call it a joke. The theory behind it is sound. Yes, there are variables we can't always account for, but that's no different than any other branch of study trying to piece together a history we weren't there in person to witness.

Mistakes are made, experience is gained, knowledge is gleaned, and hopefully we learn from it all.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Yah. I just hate philosophy.

reply to post by soficrow


Well then, whats your perspective on the subject?
Where do you stand on that?

Originally posted by sirhumperdink
awesome
"He was also quite similar to Native Americans."
i think that is the most interesting fact presented

I don't understand why this is interesting. The only slightly interesting fact to me is that supposedly smart people stilll refer to American Indians as "Native Americans". They are no more "native" to this land than me (being white), Ahmed Abdulla or Tyrone Shulaces. It's well established historical fact (which I learned in grade school in the early 80's) that these self proclaimed "natives" migrated to North America from Asia over the Bering Straight when sea levels were much lower early in this (past) ice age, and worked their way south and east from there.

And by the way wiping out all the amazing TRULY indigenous species to this land along the way that were either dangerous (in their perception) or useful to them including the wolly mammoth species, sabertoothed tigers, giant ground sloths, various species of giant predatory ground and aerial birds. I LOL when people reply to that with "No, American Indians didn't kill them off, they died because the ice age ended.". Which is a joke not only because most were too far south to be affected by the ice age either way, nor were they species overly affected by climate. But they also seem to forget that those species all seemed to survive all the previous ice ages ending just fine (same argument goes for the Polar Bear btw). The only difference this ice age was those "natives" being here.

Proof of universal karma. It'll catch up to all of us in the end.

I got suspended from jr high school for stating these facts in a debate with a "native american" school mate durring lunch. People hate the truth.

reply to post by SLAYER69


So are they saying Tianyuan Man was an erectus like Peking Man? 40,000 years sounds like some of the last remnants of erectus lingering around, at a stretch. That early, the bones samples should be sapien. (No skull, of course, darn it.) The dwindling erectus population should be mostly sapien by 100,000 years ago.

....partly reflects the fact that the picture of human evolution looks somewhat dissimilar in different regions of the World. It is now becoming clear that our evolution was not as straight forward as it once was commonly thought. Humans in some areas lagged behind. This was particularly true on some islands of Indonesia. At Ngandong on Java, for instance, Homo erectus may have survived to 53,000 years ago or even somewhat later.

link

Great article, more questions.....

reply to post by Larry L

these self proclaimed "natives" migrated to North America from Asia over the Bering Straight when sea levels were much lower early in this (past) ice age, and worked their way south and east from there.

Wow. People still believe that? Ok.

The argument I have against that is that sapiens moved north, into a less hospitable environment, through it, and made their way back south to more hospitable environment. Not only did they do that, according to the theory, they did it during an ice age. sapiens during that era needed to burn wood for warmth, so did they haul it with them? Surely, forests do not thrive during an ice age. Timber would be scarce.

More acceptable to me would be an oceanic migration, but that is not popular with current academia.

Sorry, folks, I wandered off-topic.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by soficrow

 

Well then, whats your perspective on the subject?
Where do you stand on that?

I think the new technology is marvelous - opens up huge opportunities to untangle those pesky strings. Have no trouble believing Tianyuan Man dates back 40,000 years, or that we all descend from mitochondrial Eve. But I also find other questions intriguing. ...What if humans evolved separately and differently on different continents? (Even though I think humanity does go back 200 million years.) ...What if there really were different 'alien' forces/factions tweaking our development differently on said different continents? ...What if we're really not hard-wired to war with one another but rather have been programmed by alien tinkerers to do so? and etc...

Fascinating read.,,,,But I do wonder if the results have been replicated to ensure the first results are accurate or was this a one shot deal because of lack of dna.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Mainstream scientists will put thier spin on this, thats for sure. Waiting for the debunking.



Nice find Slayer.

S&F

reply to post by soficrow

What if humans evolved separately and differently on different continents?

I used to like that theory. However, there would need to be geographic isolation for a species to evolve independently, and the diversity would be more pronounced from what we see. sapiens have had pretty much the same cranial capacity for well over 500,000 years, and there is no mechanism to allow for divergent species to develop the same cranial capacity without some sort of relationship, IE, interbreeding.

(Even though I think humanity does go back 200 million years.)

Your 200 million years is not acceptable for sapiens. I'll give you 1.6, maybe 1.8 million years for the divergence of sapien from erectus. I won't allow ergaster or habilius as representatives of humanity, but let you have them as precursors to humanity, which I delineate at the sapien level of about 100,000 years. They had the room in their skulls long before they learned how to use it. That also brings up the interesting question of survival and adaptation: Adaptations are usually within generations, to accommodate the environment. erectus shouldn't have made the leap in such a short (geologically speaking), period of time.

What if there really were different 'alien' forces/factions tweaking our development

You lost me here.

reply to post by soficrow


I appreciate the time you took to reply.

I suppose it's all possible however unlikely I try to keep an open mind. Sometimes it gets a bit hard to wade through some of the more out there perspectives.

Originally posted by Bybyots
I have to agree with Klassified, in that I know for sure the Chinese, well, some Chinese, are doing backflips every time their ball gets pushed further down their end of the field like this.

Yes, we do. Got a problem with that?

The find and the continuing research are awesome, and it is great to read about it, but, are the Chinese giving the credit to Tianyuan Man for, Chinese people, all the peoples of the Malay archipelago, and everything and anything that may have walked over the Bering Strait?

It's because of DNA testing, and a new technology too.

I don't know, it makes me want to ask two things:

1. Why the Chinese always gots to be perp'n?

2. I thought the revisionist movement, in the 70s onward, was supposed to fix these problems with things like Anthropology and Archeology? I don't think that we are ever going to get a straight answer as long as politics and hubris come in to play. It's kinda like having corrupt politicians investigate themselves.

What revisionist movement? The Cultural Revolution from 1966-76 was an anti-revisionist movement, followed by a big bunch of economic reforms in the late 70s. How are 'politics and hubrics coming into play'? The research was a joint effort by Chinese and German scientists.

So is China going to use this to claim that Thais & Koreans are actually chinese now and claim their countries as states of China?

Great stuff everyone.
Thanks for sticking to the topic and maintaining civility.

Thank you for sharing this Slayer. Anything that can push back our understanding is always wonderful.

I hate to say it though but finds like this always leave me a little bit deflated in that i wish rather than simply bones and detritus they find something amazing (like a printed atlas in hand!). I'm sure you know what i mean!

For me, the old finds will always be found over in the East. It just makes sense when you look at the globe. Mega fauna would have needed huge grazing lands - just look at the size of the steppes (basically everything east of the Urals over to the Sea of Japan). And ancient man, as we are constantly told, was a hunter gatherer. In other words, they followed the herds.

Originally posted by Chrisfishenstein
Carbon testing is a joke......If you held a spear in front of me I could tell you it anywhere from 1,000 to 4,000 years old and I would be right.....Not only that you wouldn't accept that answer, yet everyday they do that to us!

This bone is from a dinosaur anywhere from 10,000 to 650 million years old.......Why spend the money on the employees and the testing? It is a complete and utter joke!

Since you are interested enough in the subject to make a post about it, I'd suggest that you follow some of the links on the page provided and learn a little more about Dating techniques in archaeology

There's more to it than you've been led to believe.

Originally posted by Druid42
reply to post by soficrow

 

Thanks Druid42. Good points re: isolation/diversity. Re: "alien' forces/factions" see my response to Slayer below

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by soficrow

 

Thanks to you too. For the record, I go with mitochondrial Eve with respect to archeological evidence. However, it's on my list to study Hindi mythological accounts of history (at least), and go back to Idries Shah's translations relating to Persian history from a Sufi perspective - both mythologies postulate incredibly lengthy human histories as well as outside "interventions," although the Hindu apparently is based on the Persian. Lessing (also a Sufi) did one sci-fi book series, Canopus in Argos, that proposed 3 alien factions (with different agendas) as intervening in human affairs and evolution. I used to dismiss such ideas outright but now am willing to entertain their consideration.