The Final Pope will be....Cardinal Taracisio Pietro (Peter) Evasio Bertone (an Italian, fr Rome)..

reply to post by 2012newstart

What will happen if cardinal Bertone is elected by 2/3 but with strong opposition from 1/3 cardinals from Third World?

Exactly how many Popes have been from the Third World so far? If the Catholics in the Thrid World didn't have a problem with Popes who haven't been from their part of the world so far, why should they suddenly start feeling alienated because the next one is not? RCC is not a democracy with the Pontiff representing the preferences of the majority members.

Originally posted by Observor
reply to post by 2012newstart

 

What will happen if cardinal Bertone is elected by 2/3 but with strong opposition from 1/3 cardinals from Third World?

Exactly how many Popes have been from the Third World so far? If the Catholics in the Thrid World didn't have a problem with Popes who haven't been from their part of the world so far, why should they suddenly start feeling alienated because the next one is not? RCC is not a democracy with the Pontiff representing the preferences of the majority members.

Perhaps you don't understand the grave problems the Third World faces. What now is considered economic crisis in the Western countries, is a paradise compared to the Third World. They waited way too much after the Fall of Communism, thanks to JPII. Many expected a Third World pope to be elected in 2005. Now we have a papal resignation, something unheard of since 15th century. This is a resignation of the entire policy that FAILED. I would not even enter into the topics of the Scandals. Many cardinals within the Church ranks who are from Italy and from the West are totally frustrated. Let mention only card. Schoenborn of Austria. Without a drastic change, the collapse and probably secular persecution is imminent. As well as the schism of those catholic countries who preserved the dogma and morals, in first place South America but not only.

Yes I think the Malachi Prophecy about the last pope being Peter the Roman is more about the Roman than the Peter, if this next pope is the last it will mean that Catholicism is over with.

to choose anyone from the current Vatican hierarchy after the scores of scandals, and after unprecedented resignation, i.e. to grant a third mandate of the same people, will equal to a political suicide said in secular language. Not only for the Vatican but pretty much for the prestige of the Church elsewhere in the developed West. It will be a social and political disaster, even without mentioning other issues. In a planet where the Catholic church is not alone on an isolated island but is hardly competed by other Christian churches, her current crisis is dangerous before everything for herself. I hope those responsible understand that well.

Perhaps such an event will be prevented from above, as the prophecies go.

Lombardi just launched the idea the conclave could start in early March and that proposal will be offered to the cardinals on March 1st if they have arrived...The rules were subject to interpretation...

Probably it is so. However that will deny the cardinals to have the period of interregnum of 2-3 weeks when they will be in charge not the current administration. That in fact is a close overseeing the election from the current administration, and a pre-set result emerges as a likely possibility.

I hope the cardinals are erudite, intelligent and grown up people, and even if they are from Italy outside Rome, France or Germany they can see all of that and much more. If they give up to the pressure that is now apparent for everyone unbiased reader of secular media, if they allow to be manipulated again, I am afraid for the church structure itself, even before the Third World possible schism.

The Schism may come from the developed West as well. it was just too much recently. The scandals were not dealt with properly. Catholic Ireland closed its embassy to the Holy See... How many resignations of hi-profile people? Very few, and usually of second level bishops. Cardinal Schoenborn confessed in the media that his pre-predecessor sinned personally with children, and was covered by the Vatican (don't know who in charge at that time). The examples abound, and the people are no more deaf and blind as in the Middle ages. I hope the cardinals realize the 21st century cannot be 18th. As cardinal Martini said in his last interview before he died - the Church is outdated with some 200 years.

In a sense, the Orthodox Churches may appear to be much more fit for the 21st century issues, despite or exactly because their centuries old traditions. Why aren't there scandals as in the Roman catholic church?

Is it possible, just theoretically, if the prophecies of Rome fulfill anytime soon, the worldwide Christianity to reshape itself once more, and to recognize as it was before 1054 AD, that Jesus appointed 12 apostles that today are represented by the Eastern patriarchs with apostolic succession and valid sacraments. He didn't appoint Peter alone, neither told him Go in Rome and crown kings until I come again. Jesus didn't say so. What we have in Rome are strictures created much later. Canonical, i.e. lawful, but not a dogma. There are other Christian churches with no worse structures and with better human behavior. The Orthodox clergy has married priests, and there is allowed 2 and 3 marriage if the situation requires it, although not desirable. How about married priests in the Catholic church? How about giving communion of married couples for a second time, when the first marriage is destroyed without the will of one of the partners? Cardinal Martini asked that but it was voice in the desert.

Especially if unprecedented events happen worldwide and particularly on Rome.

John Paul II the Great made some historic concessions, as to denounce the crusaders and to acknowledge Galileo was right and unjustly punished. No one followed John Paul's example. (if there are bishops who did so and who are unknown to the public, sorry). Much more should be done. The inquisition should be denounced publicly and loudly. So should be many historic events. Including the modern age slavery introduced by Spanish and Portuguese catholic kings in the newly discovered lands what we call today Latin America. Brazilian African slaves were 5 times more than those brought to USA later in history by England. It was started by catholics with their spiritual leaders' blessings, who acted "in the name of Christ". We all remember the film "The Mission". This is not just history.

Today the Church faces a 5 bln non-Christian world. and the face it shows is not the face of Christ. Gandhi said, "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." The new pope is not just the ruler of the Roman Church. If the contest today is only who will take the rule, and who has more influenced cardinals, the outcome will be worse than expected. And if it is the last pope, it may well be the last times for the Catholic church as well. Thanks God there are other churches, that by the way should learn from the sad example well.

Originally posted by 2012newstart
Perhaps you don't understand the grave problems the Third World faces.

When it comes to Church politics .. that's irrelevant. The Vatican is a top-down organization .. not a bottom-up one. The pope is the Bishop of Rome. It is Italian-centric. Having non Italians - Pope John Paul II and Benedict (Ratzinger) - was an experiment. An experiement that will most likely end with the next pope.

Ratzginer stacked the deck for an Italian pope to be next.
When he named Cardinals he went Italy-Heavy.

Some of the latest actions of Benedict as pope raised brows. Such as the repeated call for One World Authority after the first initiative of "cardinals" was cancelled because the Vatican top officials "didn't know about it". Now he knew and personally advocated it in one of his last year's activities.

Another troubling issue is the chip cards that the Vatican introduced for its workers starting January 1st 2013. While not the mark of the beast itself, one can wonder how fir centuries the popes did not have problem with security, and today this one has.

Those are questions that will not go away if tomorrow we see the holy face of one of today's hi-rank cardinals insiders as pope....N..... It would be a disaster. Just a disaster. No matter if he is called Pietro or otherwise. You would count the people who walk out of the church not by thousands a day but by dioceses a day.

reply to post by 2012newstart


The Peace of God to all that belong to the light,
Dear readers,

I personally have my doubts that we are approaching to the conclave that will elect Pietrus Romanus, my impression is that we are possibly going to see various minor Pontificates before him. Why I think this? well apart of my intuition, that many times have been correct in terms of forecasts, because what it is written in the Prophecies of HH John XXIII about the end of the World.

If those prophecies are correct, and they have been tested along almost all the XX century with impressive accuracy, the final judgement will be in about 2033, and that would mean that if we are going to see in March the Last Pope, he might rule the church for 20 years, in my opinion a very unlikely event to occur, taking in account how old are the Papabili Cardinals on this occasion.

Now, for the particular case of Cardinal Tarsicio Pietro Bertone it is practically impossible to reach such a
prediction, since he is now 80 years old, and in 2013 he might be, if still alive, 100 years old!!!

if you want to know more about this alternative interpretation of St Malachi, please visit my thread at:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

reply to post by syrinx high priest

He will have to take the Papal name of Peter (the first pope)....but the fact that his given name is an italian derivative of Peter is interesting.

see the news in www.reuters.com...

my comment
Pope Ratzinger posed to change election rules in the last week of his pontificate. Especially the rule of the timing of the conclave, not to be after 2 weeks but NOW. To be totally controlled by the older administration. We can guess what election will come out of that! The next Vatican bureaucrat. That will be disastrous and will lead to schism - if not in Latin America then in the more liberal circles of USA and EU who question a number of policies for decades.

If God doesn't stop it somehow. I think the election of Petrus Romanus will be postponed indefinitely because of factors outside the reach of the Vatican. It is just tooo important for the entire history to be left to be decided by a couple of people. We'll see, only 1 week left!

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Ratzginer stacked the deck for an Italian pope to be next.
When he named Cardinals he went Italy-Heavy.

I like your thinking, but i do disagree.

Turkson is already called "Peter the Roman" by the people in his country, he already is peter the roman that has been named by prophecy. Remember, even a thousand years ago, any pope could be "peter" and "roman". How strange that 1 has that has a nickname in time for this prophecy?

Also, the stacking of italians does seem true, but i honestly think that the money laundering is too endemic in the vatican none of the others can be trusted, because they're all too close. Turkson will be the cardinals choice, if only because he represents a "new direction' for the RC church, something they desperately need.

I don't know much more than that, but from a PR perspective it's the best chance the church has in the wake of paedophilia scandals and money laundering charges. Hey look a new guy, and he's black!

Of course they could then deny he is peter the roman, because he's not italian.

Will cardinal Bertone be canonically elected if the current pope Ratzinger changes the rules in the last moment after he already deposed his resignation before the college of cardinals?
Notice the pursued change is not little: it is to deny the cardinals the 2 weeks interregnum. They will not be able to exercise their right to rule the church between the outgoing pope and the election of the new one. This is centuries old and to change it means to make the current administration working until the last moment before the conclave starts. Moreover, the camerlingo who will rule the Vatican is again card. bertone. The cardinal who will lead the conclave, as I understood, is the retired card. Sodano.

WIll this be a canonical election? And if so, will it be accepted by the 1.1 bln church and the thousands of bishops? Especially if the newly elected one is suspiciously close to the current power holders?

We are in 21st century, people! Enough with middle age tactics! And what is coming to light is changing even the old rules into something that nears closely a dictatorship of a handful of old men!

reply to post by FlyersFan


your quote:

For disclosure .. I totally disagree with their fundamentalist christian theology in regards to Mary, the role that the 'dead' can play, and the afterlife in general.

St. Luke 20:34-38

34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
35 but they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses showed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

I want to make it clear - did cardinal Bertone ever admit that the Third Secret of Fatima is not revealed fully yet? Did he swear to reveal it if elected pope?

And if Yes, why doesn't he do it now, in the interregnum? What stops him of telling the truth concealed against the Will of Heaven, and he being one of the few to know it for decades? And what guarantees he will reveal it once elected, or will promote another false text pretending to be the real one? If he indeed promised that let he do it now! Let the world know the word of Heaven before the crucial elections that may be the last ones in history!

I personally will change my view about cardinal Bertone if he reveals the full Secrets of Fatima on March 1, 2013. Perhaps many catholics will change their view in the positive. And of course what is hidden in the secrets will determine not only the outcome of this conclave, but may be the next 100 years of humankind or even more. Because I believe Heaven spoke in Fatima, and that voice was silenced until now. There is no more time to lose. The Russian threat is not the only one. We all saw what happened with the meteorite strike in Russia. What if there are more to come? And so on. I am awaiting Bertone's and others words starting from March 1, or even earlier. Enough of secrecy and half truths in 21st century.

Should it be revealed that Extraterrestrials exist, for example, and are part of the Angelic choirs? Come on, we are not children anymore to be fed with Middle age spheres of the world where the clouds reach to heaven of the angels and the underground - to the hell. That model played out, but not in religious terms until this day. Where are the other stars' places in God's creation?

if there is information about that, and I am sure there is inside Vatican, why not reveal it exactly now, when the last pope will be elect? Let the world know it, whatever it is. That may overcome a great dose of historic guilt that the catholic church has accumulated and that some of her members continue to accumulate even today with all the sex scandals.

Is cardinal Bertone that person, or someone else will lead the catholic church crossing the threshold of hope, as JPII used to say? I don't know. Let the deeds speak.

www.youtube.com...

people have been burnt alive in the Middle ages for their beliefs, including of the belief of extraterrestrials existence on other star systems. Will the Church of 21st century recompense that dreadful heritage by exactly promoting the God's creation that goes much farther than the Earth? And ultimately - promoting the Christianity, the Good News of JEsus died and resurrected on Earth? I don't know if the answer will be given in this conclave, but surely it will be given independently on how the current Catholic church decides on it.