It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by Bedlam
The place you have to observe is at the slit, where the particle/wave makes the decision to be one or the other, not downstream at the screen.
If you apply an observation at the slit - is the particle going through this slit or that one, that's when you collapse the wave into a definite particle.
Originally posted by jiggerj
Originally posted by Bedlam
The place you have to observe is at the slit, where the particle/wave makes the decision to be one or the other, not downstream at the screen.
If you apply an observation at the slit - is the particle going through this slit or that one, that's when you collapse the wave into a definite particle.
Right. But, from Bill Nye's position he is observing the entire experiment, before the slit and AFTER the slit.
Originally posted by jiggerj
if an observer watches (measures) the effects of a photon going through the slits,
Originally posted by Bedlam
Originally posted by jiggerj
Originally posted by Bedlam
The place you have to observe is at the slit, where the particle/wave makes the decision to be one or the other, not downstream at the screen.
If you apply an observation at the slit - is the particle going through this slit or that one, that's when you collapse the wave into a definite particle.
Right. But, from Bill Nye's position he is observing the entire experiment, before the slit and AFTER the slit.
You have to "observe" with an instrument that can detect the particle at the slit as a particle. Looking at it won't do.
Originally posted by Elzon1
So basically, the experiment has NOTHING TO DO WITH HUMAN OR OTHER CONSCIOUS OBSERVERS!
This is what annoys me about the metaphysical community as this single misunderstanding has caused them to think their beliefs are somehow rooted in reality... it isn't.
Quantum theory is easy enough to understand so long as you understand both the double-slit experiment and quantum entanglement to their FULL EXTENT.
Originally posted by asciikewl
That would be comfortable yes, but does not agree with the data from experiments SPECIFICALLY investigating that:
For example. www.deanradin.com...
Originally posted by Elzon1
So basically, the experiment has NOTHING TO DO WITH HUMAN OR OTHER CONSCIOUS OBSERVERS!
Alfa1 and bedlam are right.
Originally posted by alfa1
Originally posted by jiggerj
if an observer watches (measures) the effects of a photon going through the slits,
Not quite.
The "observation" that works this way is where an instrument is detecting which specific one (of the two) the photon is actually going through at that moment.
The question: Is this photon going through the left slit, or the right slit (or both)?
The human eye cant do that.
Note the reference to instruments, and this doesn't mean to "look at" as when a layperson says "observe".
In science, the term observer effect refers to changes that the act of observation will make on a phenomenon being observed. This is often the result of instruments that, by necessity, alter the state of what they measure in some manner.
And that is more or less the topic of my thread explaining the observer effect in thermodynamic terms:
In thermodynamics, a standard mercury-in-glass thermometer must absorb or give up some thermal energy to record a temperature, and therefore changes the temperature of the body which it is measuring.
Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Note the reference to instruments, and this doesn't mean to "look at" as when a layperson says "observe".
In science, the term observer effect refers to changes that the act of observation will make on a phenomenon being observed. This is often the result of instruments that, by necessity, alter the state of what they measure in some manner.
Originally posted by jiggerj
I'm watching Physics / 100 Greatest Discoveries with Bill Nye.
At 28:59 in this film, Bill Nye and Michu Kaku are looking at a Double slit experiment. If everyone remembers the theory, if an observer watches (measures) the effects of a photon going through the slits, what is seen is one point of light (one particle) on the background. This is because the act of observing supposedly collapses a wave into a particle. Like this:
But, that isn't what's happening! As you can see, Bill and Michu are looking at this experiment, and LOOK at what is showing up - a wave pattern! I don't get it?
Can somebody please explain?edit on 1/7/2013 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)