Smartest Man in America says God exists

Even the "smartest man in America" is still just guessing. That's reassuring; to me at least.
Parenthetically, I have met several people in my circles who have remarkably high IQ scores who are as dumb as mud. I'm sorry, IQ means nothing. The origins of the test itself are quite nefarious and quite outside of reasonable humanity.

Originally posted by Wonders

Originally posted by dc4lifeskater
if people can believe in god which there is no proof, why can people not believe in aliens which there is allot of proof...

There is evidence for God, and there is evidence for "aliens", too many people have turned a blind eye to the evidence, it is suppressed, denied, ignored, and overlooked.

Show me the evidence for god then, and don't say life or something like that, that isn't evidence.

Originally posted by Wonders

Originally posted by Ryanssuperman
Your thread title is an oxymoron.

Your support for Ron Paul is ironic.

I don't think ironic is the word you're looking for here. If you're going to attempt an insult, at least have it make sense.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Runciter33

 

I'm sure this thread will gain much attention from various groups posting various opinions for various reasons.

I believe in the theory of evolution, but I believe as well in the allegorical truth of creation theory. In other words, I believe that evolution, including the principle of natural selection, is one of the tools used by God to create mankind. Mankind is then a participant in the creation of the universe itself, so that we have a closed loop. I believe that there is a level on which science and religious metaphor are mutually compatible

I've argued a very similar stance in some of my threads and in thread replies on similar topics.

Flame on.

Yes I have also argued the same thing, but from a slightly different perspective: an all powerful being would be bored with watching beings of his own creation, it would be much more interesting to create a general framework in which beings can naturally evolve out of nothing. The same way that programmers often find it much more interesting to analyze the behavior of self-learning neural networks, these things can essentially evolve all sorts of amazing capabilities by themselves without any help from the programmer, all the programmer does is build a general framework in which virtual evolution can happen.

One must also keep in mind that if we did arise from natural evolutionary development we were not designed by God in his image. We were designed by random events and natural selection, a completely mindless process. Of course, you can easily argue that the spark of light at the beginning of time, the big bang, or what ever else you want to call it, you can argue that was started by a God; but in reality we can never really know. And I don't think this man is actually saying that it must have been caused by God, but that it's a completely valid explanation for how everything got here.

I tend to lean towards the scientific explanations for how everything got here and where it came from, because in my mind if a God does exist, we also must question where that being came from, how did it get here, where did its energy come from, and so on. So really it all just boils down to science in my mind. Even if God exists there is a scientific explanation for how and why such a god exists, how it came to be, how it functions, what it is constructed of, how its brain/mind works, so on and so forth.

There are things which are hard to explain, but there is absolutely nothing which defies all explanation.

But there is no evidence. Having a high IQ doesn't justify or make right invented opinions.

Somebody with an IQ of 90 could have said exactly what he has.

Would like to qualify a few things for the sake of clarity.

For one thing, i realize the thread title is somewhat inflammatory and controversial, i am not a religious person per se and did not mean to imply 'since the "smartest" man' said it, it must be true.'

In my defense, this smartest man in America title was conferred upon him by more than one source, not to say I know this myself or even necessarily agree with it, and certainly i understand those of you who have argued that intelligence is more complex than what is given on a standardized IQ test or two. There is emotional intelligence to consider for one thing, among other possible variables.

A friend of mine who I used to have a few drinks with would both get a nice glow and philosophize together for hours on end and literally finish each others sentences, we were in agreement and on the same wavelength philosophically nearly as much as perhaps anyone else I know; and he is a self proclaimed atheist himself while i believe in a higher power of some sort in a vague and general sense .

Also, i am more curious about his theory and what he has to say and thinks regarding that. It is just his opinion yes, but it is also an opinion predicated on his own 'Cognitive-Theoretic Model of the Universe' or CTMU as he calls it, so it is based on this system of thinking which he has purportedly spent a great deal of time on.

Someone on the first page i believe linked the C2C episode, and i highly recommend it, he says plenty of other incredible and interesting things as well; a couple examples being that there is such a thing as absolute truth, and that there is no such things as movement of objects outside of us.

Anyways, am enjoying reading all the responses so far, and glad this has stimulated some intellectual debate. The way he describes his thought processes i found very compelling as well. Has a sort of brusque manner, but i suppose that may be due in part to his tough upbringing as a child.

Love to hear feedback from anyone on that interview, and also anyone who ends up reading the paper regarding his theory from his website which i also linked. I'm going to take the dive here myself soon, and hopefully i can comprehend what he's trying to say and form some opinion on it, albeit inevitably it will be an incomplete one as my IQ does not hover around the 200 range.

Originally posted by GrandStrategy
But there is no evidence. Having a high IQ doesn't justify or make right invented opinions.

Somebody with an IQ of 90 could have said exactly what he has.

A great deal of people with an IQ less than 90 have said the exact same thing.

All he's really saying is that the Universe was started by God and then science can easily explain the rest with evolution and so on. That has been said countless times by many people, including philosophers who lived a long time ago.

reply to post by Onewhoknowsjesus

Originally posted by Onewhoknowsjesus All I have to say is....It's all in the eye of the beholder..as to "the smartest man in America".

That's definitely true. I've shared pretty much the same thoughts/views, in a nutshell, that this guy is explaining, for most of my life, along with many others, who I'm sure have concluded to similar realms of thought as this guy. Does that make us all geniuses too? Or him not so much one...
I wonder who scored his IQ........I'll take a wild guess....

Umm.. umm.. inny minnie minie moe..... catch a ... MENSA by their toes.

(laughs comically and quietly)

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder

Originally posted by GrandStrategy
But there is no evidence. Having a high IQ doesn't justify or make right invented opinions.

Somebody with an IQ of 90 could have said exactly what he has.

A great deal of people with an IQ less than 90 have said the exact same thing.

All he's really saying is that the Universe was started by God and then science can easily explain the rest with evolution and so on. That has been said countless times by many people, including philosophers who lived a long time ago.

Do you know why? because the conclusions always become close to or the same thing.
The god inside us all will tell you if you ask it with sincerity

reply to post by LesMisanthrope

We call it genetic code, but that doesn't mean it is encoded by some programmer...

We still haven't decoded it. Or how a cell divides or a seed turns into a tree. I know we have to some little extent.

Just pecking on the surface. With all out advanced chemistry, optics and computers? The alternative is unprovable too.

How did you put it?

All signs point to it being encoded by nature...

Okay...
If you buy the explanation that infinite mutations eventually produce a higher form of life then good luck asking a jet liner to design and build itself and then fly away. Maybe, given enough "mutations".

We are to God as a leaf is to a tree, only time will tell if we will bare fruit or not.

reply to post by Runciter33


Perfect answer and he is totally correct

reply to post by intrptr

Originally posted by intrptr
If you buy the explanation that infinite mutations eventually produce a higher form of life then good luck asking a jet liner to design and build itself and then fly away. Maybe, given enough "mutations".

How about you ask God do design a jet? Good luck with that. Design is a human concept. Intelligence is a human concept. God is a concept also of human design, contrived, designed and planned like a jet. So is evolution. So is natural selection. All ideas, some just have logic and evidence to back them up.

If everything needs a designer, than that designer would also need a designer. This is a common problem that arises from these claims. It forces the advocates of the God theory to invent even stranger guesses regarding outer-universe physics and laws.

Who designed the intelligent designer? Did he appear out of thin air?

He's obviously not that smart, he believes in God.

The guy is very smart. He says everything can exist together. This way he doesn't get anyone on his case and he can go on living his life as he wants to.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Runciter33

 

Seems that some other very smart people are arriving at the same conclusion.

The God Theory.

Intriguingly, a colleague of Bernard Haische actually derived Newton's famous equation of motion F=MA while working in equations dealing with the quantum vaccuum. For more on that see Brilliant Disguise: Light, Matter and the Zero-Point Field.

The model of the smart doorman, in essence amounts to the recent maxim of modern science that "to be is to be percieved", while at the same time acknowledging an intentionality to the entire evolutionary framework in order so that a shared, mutual experience is possible (see The God Theory for more).

Descartes also arrived at the same conclusion by philosophical deductive logic by suggesting that to perceive is to percieve the perciever, because any object of perception, in order to uphold it's own objective reality, must also be perceived, no matter how inaccessible such a perceptual objective reality may be according to the filtered subjectivity of our own sensory imput. In other words we can point to it and say that it's there, but what's really there must itself as part of an objective reality also be held by the mind of God as the absolute objective reality's origin - which is not at all dissimilar to Bernard Haisch the modern physicists viewpoint regarding the Godhead and our reality as an intentional and intelligent subtraction from the absolute formless potential from which a contextual framework for experience is made possible ie: Godmade, on purpose.

Originally posted by Runciter33

I believe that evolution, including the principle of natural selection, is one of the tools used by God to create mankind... we all exist in what can be called "the Mind of God", and that our individual minds are parts of God's Mind.

Just to weigh in, this is precisely what I've always believed. I've never understood why creationists are so anti-evolution, since, as Christopher said, evolution could be the tool God used to create us. Both ideas can be simultaneously correct, scientifically-speaking. Every time I've tried to get someone like my ultra-Baptist parents to consider that possibility, however, it's rejected out-of-hand... because they, and countless others, have put all of their faith and belief in some man who was brainwashed in a seminary (or its equivalent) by various organized religions, who are not lovers of the truth. They only love their own influence because it makes them wealthy. I better stop here before this becomes a thousand-word rant...

reply to post by ken10I'm pretty sure most intelligent people declare themselves Atheist/Agnostic.

Einstein for one.


Wow, this post got 7 stars and counting? You guys do know that Einstein was a deist who talked about God all the time, don't you?

"Coincidence is God's way of remaining anonymous," was one of my favorite quotes from him.

I'm writing a book with God as a topic and Einstein has some of the best God quotes ever uttered from human lips Tesla was also in the "100% convinced" club, by the way. He had quite a few insightful quotes about God. And apparently, there's this guy. And that scratches the slightest top of the surface as far as genius men throughout history who believed in God. That stated, 95% of the members of the National Committee of Science stated that they were atheist in a poll recently. I think it is culture bound and to imply a direct link between higher intellect and atheism would be quite foolish given the overwhelming historical evidence to the contrary.

*

BTW, to some of the other first page posters, trying to prove that "other geniuses can be crazy too" by stating that Stephen Hawking believes in aliens is probably not going to fly real well on a forum that at least 70% believes in them as well. Look up the Fermi Paradox. They're a mathematical reality to a guy like Stephen by now and that is exactly how he puts it.

I guess God and aliens are just these "wild and crazy notions" that even get into the heads of our most brilliant men sometimes... or maybe it takes a blockage at this point to keep them out of yours.

This world is way more interesting than some people make it out to be.

Originally posted by Runciter33

Christopher Michael Langan (born c. 1952) is an American autodidact whose IQ was reported by 20/20 and other media sources to have been measured at between 195 and 210.[1] Billed by some media sources as "the smartest man in America",[2] he rose to prominence in 1999 while working as a bouncer on Long Island. Langan has developed his own "theory of the relationship between mind and reality" which he calls the "Cognitive-Theoretic Model of the Universe (CTMU)"

Heard this guy on coast to coast am recently, and found him pretty fascinating. Anyways, here are quotes from him on wikipedia;

I believe in the theory of evolution, but I believe as well in the allegorical truth of creation theory. In other words, I believe that evolution, including the principle of natural selection, is one of the tools used by God to create mankind. Mankind is then a participant in the creation of the universe itself, so that we have a closed loop. I believe that there is a level on which science and religious metaphor are mutually compatible.

Langan explains on his website that he believes "since Biblical accounts of the genesis of our world and species are true but metaphorical, our task is to correctly decipher the metaphor in light of scientific evidence also given to us by God". He explains

In explaining this relationship, the CTMU shows that reality possesses a complex property akin to self-awareness. That is, just as the mind is real, reality is in some respects like a mind. But when we attempt to answer the obvious question "whose mind?", the answer turns out to be a mathematical and scientific definition of God. This implies that we all exist in what can be called "the Mind of God", and that our individual minds are parts of God's Mind. They are not as powerful as God's Mind, for they are only parts thereof; yet, they are directly connected to the greatest source of knowledge and power that exists. This connection of our minds to the Mind of God, which is like the connection of parts to a whole, is what we sometimes call the soul or spirit, and it is the most crucial and essential part of being human.[25]

Langan has said elsewhere that he does not belong to any religious denomination, explaining that he "can't afford to let [his] logical approach to theology be prejudiced by religious dogma."[14] He calls himself "a respecter of all faiths, among peoples everywhere."

en.wikipedia.org...

Anyone heard of him before? What are your thoughts on his 'Cognitive-Theoretic Model of the Universe'?

Here is his website as well, which can also be found at the wikipedia link above.

www.megainternational.org...

high IQ or no, he knows jack s**t just like the rest of us.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Thus it may be said that everything was made by the father (first father of creation) for the son (child of God as self-ware human being) because of love (the reason).

"Therefore do not be afraid little ones (a part of) nor let your hearts be troubled because it pleased the father to share his kingdom with all his children."

Thus, if we are already included and reintegrated, then the exclamatory proclamation of "repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand" is a valid and appropriate encouragement..

Why should we separate ourselves from the world, from one another, even from ourselves and our relationship with God as the all in all, for no reason whatsoever than blind ignorance, it makes no sense and isn't reasonable, logical or rational or even the least bit congruent with reality as it really is, as a flow of life even in eternity already always, including right here and now.