Italian Seismologists Charged With Manslaughter for Not Predicting 2009 Quake

Italian Seismologists Charged With Manslaughter for Not Predicting 2009 Quake

www.foxnews.com

Italian government officials have accused the country's top seismologist of manslaughter, after failing to predict a natural disaster that struck Italy in 2009, a massive devastating earthquake that killed 308 people.

A shocked spokesman for the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) likened the accusations to a witch hunt.

"It has a medieval flavor to it -- like witches are being put on trial," the stunned spokesman told FoxNews.com.

(visit the link for the full news article)

I searched for this already being posted but could not find it anywhere. If is has been I do apologize and MODS please remove it, thank you.

I caught this story in a local newspaper on my way home. How can these men be charged with murder? Our local paper had a quote from one seismologist involved that I am still trying to find. He sounded so confused, so scared.


www.foxnews.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by AwakeANDreaming

Six Italian seismologists have been convicted of manslaughter and sentenced to prison for failing to adequately warn the city of L'Aquila in advance of an April 2009 earthquake that killed more than 300 people. When the charges were brought against the Italian scientists back in 2010, they shocked the scientific world. Prosecutors claimed that the scientists, while serving on a government panel, minimized the potential risks of a potential quake in the region, and gave "incomplete, imprecise, and contradictory information" to the area's citizens, according to an in-depth report on the case last year in the scientific journal Nature. Scientists have countered that there is no way to accurately predict earthquakes, and that the state is essentially putting science on trial. A letter signed by more than 5,000 scientists objecting to the charges was sent to the Italian government, but the trial went on nonetheless.

READ ME

Wow you have to be kidding me right? Right?
La Times has a much better article than Fox News. Go figure.
I still can't find the quote from him.

When will these people be prosecutable for turning so many young, smart, life-filled kids into Atheists... Telling them they are nothing but Animals that came from Prodimal soup, and when they act like Animals they get prosecuted.

Originally posted by CALGARIAN
When will these people be prosecutable for turning so many young, smart, life-filled kids into Atheists... Telling them they are nothing but Animals that came from Prodimal soup, and when they act like Animals they get prosecuted.

Are you really going to go there with this thread? What does that have to do with the story?

On topic: I almost can't believe this article. It's actually the first I've heard of the case. I'm hoping I can find more details when I get home. Thanks for the post OP. s&f.

Originally posted by zaonez

Originally posted by CALGARIAN
When will these people be prosecutable for turning so many young, smart, life-filled kids into Atheists... Telling them they are nothing but Animals that came from Prodimal soup, and when they act like Animals they get prosecuted.

Are you really going to go there with this thread? What does that have to do with the story?

On topic: I almost can't believe this article. It's actually the first I've heard of the case. I'm hoping I can find more details when I get home. Thanks for the post OP. s&f.

Tell me about it. I questioned posting it not only because maybe it had been posted before, but more than that I simply couldn't believe what I was reading. I wish I had chose the times article but all I could come across at first was the Fox source. I am still looking for the quote from one involved that was in my local paper, hopefully I'll come across it.

I was reading about this today. It seems there is a lot of misunderstanding around the charge and what they have actually been accused of. I'm not too familiar with the story having only stumbled across it today, but this article gives balance to the over-the-top Fox News one:

... The nature of these charges has been relentlessly misrepresented by the media, with Nature's superb reporting a notable exception. Fox News claimed: "Italian Seismologists Charged With Manslaughter for Not Predicting 2009 Quake" when the prosecution was announced, and the ABC's headline echoed that statement: "Scientists Convicted of Manslaughter for Failing to Predict Italian Quake". Those headlines – and far too many like them – are simply untrue.

The prosecutors, and the devastated families they represent, are well aware that scientists cannot predict earthquakes. The accusation they make is not that experts failed to predict the earthquake, but that they failed to properly assess and communicate the risks, telling residents they were safe without any scientific basis for doing so....

the guardian: Jail Italian scientists over L'Aquila and what's next? Suing Michael Fish?

ETA: Personally I believe manslaughter is a very harsh judgement in this case. The arguement relates to misrepresenting facts leading to the death of others. Science gets bashed so much in the media for releasing prediction results, especially when they turn out to be false. I can understand, if they were unfamiliar or undecided with their results, why they were avoiding being seen to cause what they may have thought as unnecessary panic.

reply to post by MattC


Thank you for bringing some balance to this. The headlines are a bit extreme, that is the popular thing to do it seems. Regardless of the headline, these men were still convicted and sentenced to 6 years in jail. It will be appealed most certainly and hopefully they will all be acquitted. I am still trying to find more info.

....telling residents they were safe without any scientific basis for doing so...

Hmmm, I have often seen many cases where scientists are compelled by senior politicians to say something they do not believe. I think many of us have witnessed that in movies and such... of course this didn't happen with Hurricane Katrina (held off on evacuations,) BP's oil spill (never get a clear answer on how much and where to expect damage,) Fukushima (all is well in hand.)

I would like to know if these scientists maintained that there was no cause for an alarm to be raised? or did they just take every tremor as "just another day at work." and couldn't be bothered to start an process that would lead to avalanche of inquiries.

If they had raised the alarm, and the earth quake never happened, I wonder if businesses who lost money could sue them for that too?

Seems like this kind of thing will end with damned if you do, damned if you don't.

All this will do is alienate scientists from public service in fear of liability.

Again as previously posted by others.. Even thou that sentence is quiet harsh and I give them that please stop mixing tho things up .. They did not get that sentence for failing to predict the quake, they got it because they wrongly told people that there is no problem . Maybe that will teach "experts" to be a bit more sure of what they are saying to the public in the future because it can have consequences ....

How I kinda see this case is like in the movie Dante's Peak...

One guy is trying to get the word out that there is, indeed, danger coming and is simply wanting to warn people about it.

his boss, on the other hand, does not want to do it, and refuses to give out warnings, and in fact, ends up telling people there is nothing to worry about.

Then the volcano erupts and many people die. Including the guy who was trying to deny anything would happen.


The scientists in this case are like that guy, telling people that there was no danger and to just ignore anything else that anyone might try to tell them is coming. "All is well. Nothing is coming." Then, boom, earthquake.


Instead of the scientists dying in the earthquake, they're getting charged with manslaughter for telling people to ignore the warning signs that were there.

reply to post by AwakeANDreaming


From the times article. CLICK ME

The scientists served on a government advisory board whose goal was to assess and communicate potential seismological risks to the country.

In particular, the scientists failed to detail how many buildings would be likely to collapse in the event of a major earthquake.

There may have been no charges leveled at the scientists at all if it were not for a press conference held after the meeting. According to Nature, during the press conference, the panel's non-scientist member, a government official who was also convicted of manslaughter, told the press and the public that the earthquakes the area had been feeling posed no threat, and went so far as to joke that everyone should relax and drink a nice glass of local red wine.

Science -- and in particular seismology -- is all about probabilities, and almost nothing is ever certain. It's difficult to imagine how Italy will manage to recruit scientists to such panels in the future when being wrong once could mean heading to the slammer.

I still don't believe it.

From the geology community, I can report a collective shudder and outrage over this ruling. Granted it's really about political appeasement of the townspeople, nothing more. Give the crowd something to put on their pitchforks, let the appellate courts deal with acquittal once the furor dies down.

I've been following this story for a while now. In the end, the bureaucrat went out and 'interpreted' the geologist's statements to the public. Now the scientists are paying for that moron's BS assurances.

And no, I will not comment on whether or not you are going to have an earthquake anywhere. I take that back. The only answer I would ever give is 100% YES, sometime between 2012 and 2500AD.

reply to post by MattC


Misinterpretation or not, just the fact that they have been charged is bleeding stupid. How much quicker can we send our civilisation back to the dark ages? It will come to a point that people won't dare take up any profession for fear of being "blamed" for not "being their brothers' keeper" if you get my drift. Allegedly underestimating the severity of something then getting pinned by pr1cks with a victim complex! pftt!!!

Originally posted by Thill
Again as previously posted by others.. Even thou that sentence is quiet harsh and I give them that please stop mixing tho things up .. They did not get that sentence for failing to predict the quake, they got it because they wrongly told people that there is no problem . Maybe that will teach "experts" to be a bit more sure of what they are saying to the public in the future because it can have consequences ....

edit on 23/10/12 by Thill because: (no reason given)

Yeah! It's their fault! They should make sure they are always right when they are trying to protect us. How dare they not get everything right 100% of the time. Sheesh, why shouldn't we be angry at them? We don't have the brains to work that kind of stuff out, so if they don't get things completely right in the future, let's draw and quarter them. That'll teach 'em for not looking after us dummies.

damn this isn't good eh. very disturbing to think of the level of injustice being done by yet another government.

all the while ignoring common scientific knowledge.

reply to post by AwakeANDreaming

the panel's non-scientist member, a government official who was also convicted of manslaughter, told the press and the public that the earthquakes the area had been feeling posed no threat, and went so far as to joke that everyone should relax and drink a nice glass of local red wine.

This is what I do not get. Why charge the actual scientists then? They were simply doing their job..

There are several things wrong here. First, these are geologists not architects so how should they know what buildings could survive an earthquake. Second, it is impossible to predict an earthquake. Third, even if you could predict earthquakes, you can't predict their strength. My opinion, Italy set science back a hundred years.

Originally posted by shadwgirl

...... My opinion, Italy set science back a hundred years.

I almost could resist saying it.....

They've done that before.... coincidence?

I kid, I kid.

(That's dangerously close to offensive perhaps? No disrespect intended.)

I am amazed that this happened. I would have expected something this ridiculous to happen in the states where everyone is sue happy, not Italy!

You can't predict mother nature let alone blame someone else for it's actions. This is just crazy. I feel so bad for those seismologists.