Why It Matters: SOCIAL SECURITY

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by Annee

 

I see it somewhat differently. It's not like it's charity, at least in regard to retirement benefits. It's insurance. Literally. You pay in, and you get back out when your time to do so comes. Afflack does it, and makes a mint. Every insurance company does it, and ends up making money hand over fist as well.

Yes I do understand that.

I'm speaking of how the mind - - - focuses on "I will be taken care of" - - - instead of the reality of: its a supplement.

Fixing the social security issue would be VERY easy. At present there is a cap. You only pay social security tax on up to $107,000. of income, anything earned above that and you pay NO tax on it. So Bill Gates only pays social security tax on $107K of his income, the other cazillian above that, no tax. This is all a crock of sh$t. Once again we see the two tiered society for what it is- neo-feudalism.


www.ourfuture.org...

reply to post by Annee


I am sure that there are people who see it as a finish line and do the bare minimum to get there. But, truly, as listed earlier, I believe the payout for retirement averaged something like twelve hundred per month. I know, for certain, that my mother actually receives far less than that.

If there are people who set the bar that low for themselves? That's a separate issue.

My desire is to advocate on behalf of those who did all the right things and were blindsided by uncontrollable situations - who now do not choose to live a spartan life on a low income... but do so because it's either that, suicide, or begging.

~Heff

They will raise the retirement age over and over again. National Healthcare and The Death Book will get rid of a few million. The panels that decide who gets care will no doubt have an age cutoff point for life threatening illness. They have plenty of nasty plans that the average American would find horrendous. Hitlers ideas are going to be put into play it seems. DNA testing and sterilization for those that have genes that typically pass along devastating illness. Scary stuff.

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by beezzer

 

This illusion that everybody who ends up poor deserved it is so pervasive. You do realize that a single battle with an issue like heart disease, or cancer, can wipe out even the wisest persons life savings in a very short time. Those people need what they paid into - and they didn't lollygag around waiting for a hand out.

~Heff

Certainly there will be exceptions. But we now have generations of people that look at social security as being their sole fiscal lifeline.

Day in, day out, (from morn to night)* the pages of ATS are filled with distrust towards the government from both left and right. Yet, when it comes to Social Security, we entrust everything towards the government.


*Nod to HW Longfellow

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by Annee

 

- who now do not choose to live a spartan life on a low income... but do so because it's either that, suicide, or begging.

~Heff

What about continuing to work? Starting a small business? Those are not options?

reply to post by DarthMuerte


For some. But what of the infirm and sick? What of those who cannot find any work. Most companies aren't eager to hire 60 or 70 somethings these days. In fact the trend seems to be that it's a youngsters market for jobs.

~Heff

reply to post by beezzer


Hate the government and want to change a LOT about it. But I'm not going to abandon my love of family and community in the process.

I don't trust Washington as far as I can spit. But social programs cannot just disappear because we don't trust the people who administer them. Capitalism has one good practice... fire the bad management, but don't close the business.

~Heff

What about continuing to work? Starting a small business? Those are not options?

You can work till you drop dead, don't try to steal my retirement and destroy my life (and millions of other peoples')

Originally posted by CB328

What about continuing to work? Starting a small business? Those are not options?

You can work till you drop dead, don't try to steal my retirement and destroy my life (and millions of other peoples')

Tell me exactly what generation embraced retirement for the elderly.

Originally posted by Hefficide

My desire is to advocate on behalf of those who did all the right things and were blindsided by uncontrollable situations - who now do not choose to live a spartan life on a low income... but do so because it's either that, suicide, or begging.

Yes! Well I'm in the "Goldilock zone".

My husband is 21 years younger.

I am not oblivious to the changes and outcome.

Bush made a stab at fixing it in 05. 2003: Progressive indexing would eliminate 2/3 of shortfall
The president believed that younger workers should be able to set it aside in their own retirement accounts. On April 28, 2005, in another effort to jump-start the debate, Bush embraced a proposal that would have protected low-wage workers and cut Social Security's projected shortfall. The idea, "progressive indexing," was proposed by a Democrat: Social Security benefits are small, but they do increase over time based on a formula that takes into account both inflation and an index that averages the national increase in wages. Progressive indexing keeps that formula for the bottom 30% of wage earners, but for top-tier earners calculate benefit increases using inflation only. Everyone would get a Social Security check equal to or greater in purchasing power than they would receive today, but low-wage earners would receive the more generous benefit increases the country could not afford for everyone. This one change would have eliminated roughly two-thirds of the Social Security shortfall.
Source: Courage and Consequence, by Karl Rove, p.408-410 , Mar 9, 2010


It is political suicide unfortunately to speak of SS. His idea looked pretty fair to me.

Originally posted by CB328

What about continuing to work? Starting a small business? Those are not options?

You can work till you drop dead, don't try to steal my retirement and destroy my life (and millions of other peoples')

That is their goal to steal your retirement thanks to the likes of elite scumbags like the Koch bothers. Anybody paying attention to the LIBOR scandal and the interest rate fixing? This one of the many ways they steal your retirement. It used to be that a retirement fund stayed in the bank and collected interest. Then some slick sociopath with a masters in financial engineering dreamed up the likes of the 401K where some bankster gets to take your retirement money to Wall St. and gamble it in the stock market. Actually its no gamble, it's a rackett designed to steal your retirement money. There goal is to steal everything and leave you with nothing. They do not give a sh$t about you or me.

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by DarthMuerte

 

For some. But what of the infirm and sick? What of those who cannot find any work. Most companies aren't eager to hire 60 or 70 somethings these days. In fact the trend seems to be that it's a youngsters market for jobs.

When you have your health - - you have everything.

Boy - - do I personally know. It sucks major when you have desires/ambitions and not the physical ability to do them.

I know. I have all kinds of ideas I can do at 66 - - - if I only had the physical health to bring them into reality.

Another note, not to derail the thread, but to help inform the subject in general. Many people get sick or hurt during their working lives and can no longer work - but for short periods of time... say a few months to a few years. Some of these people, especially those who were living hand to mouth, are forced to seek medical help from the state.

I don't know about other states, but Georgia requires anyone in this situation, who seeks help, to apply for SSI benefits and for Medicaid through SSI.

In my participation at the local mental health clinic I have watched several people go through this process. And eventually get the medical help they needed and return to work. The downside? It takes literally years for this to happen. The whole time social services have to be expended to keep these folks alive long enough for SSI to come through. Once that happens they tend to get the right medical attention and return to health quickly - but with a few lost years behind them.

If the medical system were built to deal with these types of temporary disabilities - then the draw on Social Security would be heavily reduced. As Social Security - after taking years to come through, has to back pay these folks, varyingly, but usually from the time they first applied.

People who would much rather have just been able to get medication or surgery done ASAP and gone back to work directly.

The system is broken - and in more than one way.

~Heff

reply to post by Hefficide


I have seen that happen many times. If they have a lawyer it goes through quickly. If they don't have a lawyer it seems like they slow play it hoping they die before they can get a dime. There must be a mechanism in the red tape that either speeds it up or slows it down depending on whether you lawyer up.

Thanks for posting this thread Heff [S+F]. One thing that I don't see mentioned much is the fact that a lot of disabilities are manifesting themselves in people at younger and younger ages.

I know people who are young (far under 65 years) that collect an SS payment every month. These people have truly debilitating conditions/illnesses, and there's not much that they can do because they are immobile or their illnesses make it impossible to hold a steady job.

Examples of permanent illnesses that affect people for life are things like severe muscular dystrophy, blindness, severe type 1 diabetes, paralysis, mental conditions, and many others. I don't have a source to back it up, but I know for a fact that people are getting these debilitating conditions at younger and younger ages. I've seen it.

It's not just the old people who will die from getting their promised benefits cut off. I have met more than 10 people under 40 years old in my lifetime that collect disability.

If the bureaucrats took away the meager check and other assistance they receive, then the only way that they will be able to survive is if they have a family member who cares about them enough or friend that will take care of them AND help buy their medications (WHICH CAN BE VERY EXPENSIVE these days).

A conservative estimate of deaths if they take away SS benefits will be at least 30 million, and possibly more if people that get their benefits denied are unable to get someone to help them.

reply to post by popcornmafia


What has turned it into a ponzi scheme is that all that money was taken out of the account to pay for other things. It now makes it look like the older generation (mine 60) is robbing the younger. If they left it alone, or repaid the I.O.U.'s everything would have been all right.

We can afford to fight ten year wars, give money to other countries, etc. etc., but can't take care of our elderly?

reply to post by jimmiec


Lawyers can help people get on disability, but something that isn't very well known is that a good letter from a medical doctor and/or a psychiatrist can carry more weight than what an attorney can prove in a disability hearing.

Basically, a note of MEDICAL NECESSITY is all a person needs to get on disability. If the letter(s) are well-written, they work and it's a much cheaper way to go about it.

I know a kid on SS, He works everyday. He pulls transmissions/whatever. He looks to be about 23 or so. Scamming the system. No limp. No sign of anything wrong with him physically or mentally. I'm no doctor though.