The Accusations Are True ATS - I Do Have An Agenda And I Have Been Manipulating You! My Confession.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by votan
how exactly did you manipulate people on ATS??

He got them interested enough in the topic to post a reply or ask a question............

Hardly think that qualifies as manipulation.

The fact that he is a mod is most likely the main reason he got the amount of flags he did...and the fact that people come to this site, because they are bored, and feel like responding to certain posts, is hardly an indication of his master manipulative skills.

reply to post by WhisperingWinds


Well this is posted in the Deconstructing Disinformation forum so...

I advise all of you to make sure you are not close to a manipulator. They may be pretty and fun, but they only care about what you can do for them. I'm sorry, you should settle for normal, no matter how boring that sounds. Just keep in mind that life is as simple as staying alive until you don't exist. Don't let that bleak knowledge lead you to living a fantasy. Only willingly suspend your disbelief in order to experience pleasure. Pleasure trumps the nothingness that is life. But, be careful, manipulators lure you with pleasure.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by votan
how exactly did you manipulate people on ATS??

He got them interested enough in the topic to post a reply or ask a question............

Well bravo.

He did what all OP's of threads with replies did before him.

He got response.

But that is not the point.

What most seem to be missing is hidden in plain sight. It's in the title for god sakes.

The Accusations Are True ATS

It is about the accusations.

So I write these threads. Invariably, in every single one of these mind control themed threads, at least one or two members have posted statements accusing me of doing the very thing I was discussing... manipulation. I've been accused of fear mongering, data mining, conditioning, and a slew of other malicious and devious charges.I have been accused, numerous times, of being an operative for any number of government agencies. I have been accused of being a paid agent provocateur. These things, I assure you, are absolutely and patently untrue. But as for the rest...

Yet why were you accused of it then. As far as I can remember and have read back, these accusations are about the type of manipulation that doesn't come from sincere concern, is agenda driven and could be considered malevolent.

But you admit to the rest of it, to the type of manipulation that is not relevant, we all do it to some extent, and it is redundant information.

So apparently the accusations were solid enough for you to start this thread with, discredit them, then turn this into a thread about manipulation in general, making it a confusing cacophony of plotwists and all sorts of psychological tricks.

In the end, everybody thinks you did them a favor and they don't even register that it was about the accusations in the first place.

They don't even register that you admit that you have used all sorts of technigues and schemes in a way a sincere person would never do, and yet refuse to specify what you did exactly, all while being in a position of power.

I must admit, it is fascinating to see.

I don't know wether it is brilliant, a big gamble or just plain insanity, and if this is Heff's personal project.

Click here for more information.

Earlier in this thread a member took some personal shots at me that hit home in a big way. Discussing my health problems and calling me out, basically, as a social parasite who wishes to use the system for free money. This triggered a full on panic attack and sent me over the edge. I had to take medication and spent my day in bed.

So, for those who think I fancy myself a master of manipulation - rejoice. The entire spirit of this thread was lost on quite a few people. It was just a conversation starter meant to get us discussing how easy it is for our emotions to be used against us. It doesn't take geniuses with unlimited resources, or billion dollar budgets, It takes just a few words or images to get us going.

As it happens, someone here, today, found my soft spot - and they stabbed it directly and with relish. I blame myself for opening that soft spot up by being honest with strangers about the truth of my real life.

Anyone who actually reads my posts in this thread will see that I have made several attempts to explain the reason for the title - to admit that the OP was never meant to be any masterful anything. Just a conversation starter.

Instead, it appears I started less of a conversation and more of a brawl.

If nothing else, this thread might be used one day as a reference for poor debate - as fully half of the posts in it are nothing more than ad hom attacks, straw men, and examples of d-egos gone rampant.

To those who got the point of the thread, thank you. To those who defended me, thank you as well.

~Heff

Click here for more information.

Post deleted.

reply to post by Phenomium


As has been pointed out, this is a forum entitled "Deconstructing Disinformation" and this thread was simply a method of explaining that everything is a manipulation - especially where human interaction is concerned.

A baby crying is manipulation for example.

It is fascinating to me the number of people having visceral and aggressive reactions to this simple concept.

~Heff

reply to post by Hefficide


Sorry Heff, but you're showing ignorance on a topic you claim to have studied in depth.

b]Psychological manipulation is a type of social influence that aims to change the perception or behavior of others through underhanded, deceptive, or even abusive tactics.[1] By advancing the interests of the manipulator, often at the other's expense, such methods could be considered exploitative, abusive, devious, and deceptive. Social influence is not necessarily negative. For example, doctors can try to persuade patients to change unhealthy habits. Social influence is generally perceived to be harmless when it respects the right of the influenced to accept or reject and is not unduly coercive. Depending on the context and motivations, social influence may constitute underhanded manipulation.

Psychological Manipulation

Social influence is not necessarily psychological manipulation. Manipulation insinuates a nefarious intent. A baby crying is not of nefarious intent. It just wants a basic need met, usually. It's a primitive form of communication.

reply to post by Hefficide


It's that word "manipulation", that is the problem, not the concept. The very word conjures negativity and deceit. It's like a conspiratorial dirty word. I did not understand your true intentions and I digress. I will delete the aforementioned post.

It has been suggested by some researchers that the large ape brain was mainly selected by nature for dealing with complex social interaction and only secondarily for tool making and manipulating objects in their environment. The connection between social skills and intelligence can be seen operating in chimpanzee societies. Success for an individual usually requires that he or she has the ability to learn from others, invent new behaviors, comprehend the status and complex emotions of all other troop members, and can use this knowledge to gain advantages. Chimpanzees learn how to influence and even manipulate the emotions of others in their communities. High ranking adult males in particular become skilled at bluff, deception, and intrigue. They are scheming political animals who spend much of their time creating and maintaining alliances with other males. In order to succeed, they need to be "chess masters" of their social worlds. The ability to predict the combined effects of yours and other's actions and to control your own emotions and behavior may be among the most important characteristics that led to the large ape brain. Ultimately, it may have led to the even larger and more intelligent human brain. This idea is supported by recent neurobiological research done by John Allman and his colleagues at the California Institute of Technology. They discovered that there is a particularly large type of spindle-shaped neuron cell in the brain that is apparently unique to apes and humans, and concentrated more in people. These neurons are in areas of the brain known to be involved in complex decision making.

anthro.palomar.edu...

When in doubt about human tendancies and mental makeup, have a look at chimps.

reply to post by moniesisfun


Actually what I am getting at is both psychological and social manipulation are being used to elicit the same types of primal responses as indicating by the example of the crying baby.

Advertising and propaganda are becoming such exacting sciences that they can bypass our thinking minds and strike directly at our emotions and primal instincts and natures.

~Heff

Originally posted by Hefficide
It is fascinating to me the number of people having visceral and aggressive reactions to this simple concept.

It's less the topic than the presentation and the messenger.

Members of a conspiracy forum are going to necessarily react poorly to bombastic, ego-driven assertions and subtle mocking from a forum moderator regarding the topic of manipulation.

It should come as no surprise. I don't think you meant any harm, you seem like a great guy, you just didn't necessarily think it through all the way.

I would hope it would be a lesson for everyone all around.

It's the internet, it happens.

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by moniesisfun

 

Actually what I am getting at is both psychological and social manipulation are being used to elicit the same types of primal responses as indicating by the example of the crying baby.

Advertising and propaganda are becoming such exacting sciences that they can bypass our thinking minds and strike directly at our emotions and primal instincts and natures.

~Heff

The budget-breakdowns of large corporations lay claim to the fact that, this is the case...advertising, and the amount of money poured into it would be wasted of not for this one salient fact...

A99

reply to post by moniesisfun


Social influence is in regards to the fact that others exist and their actions have an affect upon your decision making, this is not nefarious. Someone may cross the street in front of your car causing you to slow or stop, not nefarious. Manipulation involves one or more individuals purposely trying to control a targets actions using a variety of tactics such as deception or even physical force. Where average individuals might manipulate their spouse or family members governments manipulate their populations and enemies using the very same tactics, but usually on a broader scale.

A baby crying can be manipulation, babies cry for a variety of reasons, but sometimes they just want attention and will act as if they need something, but actually do not need anything.

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by Phenomium

 

It is fascinating to me the number of people having visceral and aggressive reactions to this simple concept.

~Heff

I'm not particularly surprised by it. I'm sure there are a variety of reasons, but I'm thinking more than a few people are simply trying to divert attention, including their own attention, from the fact that they use many of the very same tactics their vile enemies, tptb, do.

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by moniesisfun

 

Actually what I am getting at is both psychological and social manipulation are being used to elicit the same types of primal responses as indicating by the example of the crying baby.


Advertising and propaganda are becoming such exacting sciences that they can bypass our thinking minds and strike directly at our emotions and primal instincts and natures.

~Heff

I get you now. So a baby crying is not manipulation. It's a matter of the context in which a baby crying would be displayed, and/or heard.

I actually think it's the opposite as we move forward. People get desensitized to the same advertising/marketing ploys over time. They either consciously get the con, else subconsciously learn to detract attention automatically.

How many people actually care for the bulk of commercials these days? I certainly don't, and demand for skip-forward, torrent, etc..capabilities seem to prove the general public doesn't, either.

The more people like yourself make this information available, the less power these jerks have over us.

By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing. . . Kill Yourself !! -- Bill Hicks

reply to post by Symbiot



I could always argue it's yet another basic need...attention/affection at a critical stage of development.



...but I submit...we're all just manipulative bastards at our core, eh?

reply to post by SLAYER69


and i manipulated you to respond to my comment

I knew i would get a bite

reply to post by moniesisfun


Commercials are actually the least of my worries. In "1984" there was the infamous "two minutes of hate" ritual where everyone was exposed to highly visceral propaganda footage. I included that video recently, if not in this thread, then in one of my more recent one.

Check it out and then watch the opening segments of any networks nightly news show. It is chilling to see the similarity.

~Heff