Iran Threatens to Hit Israel and U.S. Bases

Originally posted by Drezden
You quote something I've said that you believe is opinion and I will give you documentation that proves it's fact.

Your Opinion.

Originally posted by Drezden
People on here are in a perpetual state of denial about the U.S.'s own covert activities.

Which People?

Originally posted by Drezden
You all refuse to do so.. so don't be offended when I think you're ignorant and silly.

Slayer69 gave you some of his facts, but those "facts" don't fit comfortably into your equations of the events. He even stated that the US plays its part, but you didn't want to hear his admission of it. You want to BLAME the US Only.


Isn't that silly in a World of many Players, playing the same game? Isn't that Ignorant to point out only ONE Nations faults?

Originally posted by gravitational
reply to post by Drezden

 

Let me explain how I see things unfolding here on ATS lately.

Dude 1 : “Iran is the agressor “

Dude 2 : "lol....I ran hasn't started a war in like 34700 years “

Dude 1 : “but they use proxies like Hezbollah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad etc' “

Dude 2 : “ MAN, the U.S is guilty...oh, and the Crusaders”

See what I mean? It's getting really old and boring after awhile.

The fact that Iran hasn't started a war in a long time isn't completely relevant if they are supporting 3rd party extremist groups. However, there should be a distinction between supporting relatively small terrorist groups and carpet bombing multiple nations and sending soldiers into a country.

There is a cause and effect that is being over looked though. There is a reason for Iran's mistrust of the U.S. and western countries in general, they didn't just decide one day that we were "the great satan" because we were minding our own business.

I haven't seen people bring up the crusades in their arguments on ATS personally, but of course it would be silly to bring up history that is that old to use in any sort of argument.

The U.S. IS guilty though, not the citizens, but the government. Almost all governments around the world have varying levels of corruption and unjustified violent actions in their modern history, including Iran. Someone who doesn't think the U.S. government is guilty isn't paying attention, but just because someone thinks the U.S. is guilty doesn't mean they think every other country is better.. super-patriots need to realize this. Patriotism can bring too many blinding emotions into an argument that requires calm logic. You can love your country and still speak about its many faults. Most of us who do see the crimes and corruption of the U.S. speak about them because we care about our country and want to change it for the better, and not be dragged into unnecessary wars where more Americans will die for something other than protecting our land.

Has anyone here even spoken to someone who lives in Iran? I have correspondence with several people who live there. Politics annoy them (like many Americans), they don't trust their government (like many Americans), they are victims of propaganda ( like many Americans). They just want to live their lives and watch youtube videos. They like american technology, movies, music.. they stand in line to get their iphones..etc.. all the things Americans do. The majority of them do not hate American citizens, contrary to what U.S. media would have you believe. My point is we shouldn't be so quick to want a military confrontation with them like many people on ATS seem to want, they are reasonable people held captive by an unreasonable government.. a lot like the U.S. Why won't our government have a respectful dialogue with Iran?

I realize the latter part of my post was a bit off topic, so no need to point it out.

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by Drezden
You quote something I've said that you believe is opinion and I will give you documentation that proves it's fact.

Your Opinion.

Originally posted by Drezden
People on here are in a perpetual state of denial about the U.S.'s own covert activities.

Are you serious? That is extremely childish.. Out of everything I said, out of the entire discussion about the U.S. support of Iraq during the Iran - Iraq war.. all the facts I presented about U.S. supporting Iraq.. you guys kept saying they were all opinions and not truth... I ask you to back up your claims that my facts were opinions.. and you bring up the first line of the first post I made on this thread?

Grasp at straws much?

Originally posted by sonnny1
Slayer69 gave you some of his facts, but those "facts" don't fit comfortably into your equations of the events. He even stated that the US plays its part, but you didn't want to hear his admission of it. You want to BLAME the US Only.

I quoted Slayer in my post, where he acknowledges the U.S. government carries some blame. I also acknowledged it more than once. This is so absurd. I'll state this again (not that it will matter because you pick and choose what you read in my posts). We were arguing the specifics of the U.S. support and to what extent the U.S. supported Iraq.

Good lord, stop these ridiculous misrepresentations, just because you can't counter the facts I gave.

reply to post by Drezden



You believe there is no reason for the United States to act the way they do.

That's your OPINION.

PERIOD.


Even if my opinion, might overlap yours,or I agree with you.

Where we disagree is rhetoric, and why. Irans Government doesn't have to pound the war drums, do they?? Regardless if ANY other Nation, decides to do it. You are right, the peoples of EVERY Nation, wants Peace. Its the Governments. Even if there would be NO Israel, NO America, there would be strife in the Middle East. Its been that way for thousands of years. That's ALL my Opinion, but if you need some facts for me to back that up, I will oblige you.

Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by Drezden

 

You believe there is no reason for the United States to act the way they do.

That's your OPINION.

PERIOD.


Even if my opinion, might overlap yours,or I agree with you.

Where we disagree is rhetoric, and why. Irans Government doesn't have to pound the war drums, do they?? Regardless if ANY other Nation, decides to do it. You are right, the peoples of EVERY Nation, wants Peace. Its the Governments. Even if there would be NO Israel, NO America, there would be strife in the Middle East. Its been that way for thousands of years. That's ALL my Opinion, but if you need some facts for me to back that up, I will oblige you.

You're telling me what I believe now? I never said 'The U.S. has no reason to act the way they do', what I have been saying is that the U.S. fully supported Iraq in the Iran - Iraq war, and that the U.S. should not have done so. Particularly because Iraq was the main aggressor.

reply to post by Drezden


Still going on about that geez............

The Us has supported a lot of people including Iran, but that has jack to do with Iran war mongering and threatening its neighbors,.

The U.S. supported Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war. Without a doubt we did.

The U.S. supported Iran during the days of the Shah. Without a doubt we did.

What's a wonder is... Why any Middle Eastern country would have any thing at all to do with us, knowing the history of our "alliances"... We've even to a certain degree begun to throw Israel under the bus.

To call it dishonorable would be an understatement. Maybe that's the problem, or at least part of it, with our relationships in this region. Our next President needs to at least address this somehow, or other. Though it might be too late to fix.

Screwed the Shah.

Screwed Hussein.

Next?

Politics makes for strange bedfellows... But we needn't treat them like disposable handy wipes.

reply to post by neo96


Doesn't it? Our history of treating our allies like disposable whatevers can't be having a good influence...

It's time to stop doing that.

reply to post by seagull


That has been in practice a long,long time, and by many countries in the world if we lived in an ideal world of course that practice needs to stop.

But when have we ever lived in an ideal world?

reply to post by neo96


Oh, I'll grant you that. It's not an ideal world at all.

However...

We, as Americans, pride ourselves on being special. Standing for something better. Why then act like every other nation on Earth? Yeah, I know, not likely, or perhaps even possible... Does that mean that where it is possible, we shouldn't try?

Not just the middle east, but other places in the world. Where actually doing something right instead of what's convenient might be rewarded with thanks, rather than suspicion?

reply to post by seagull


Yes we do pride ourselves on being special, standing for something better, Which is where the problems come in doesn't matter what we do there is always someone out there condemning whatever action we take, and then condemn actions we do not take,

When idealism meets the cold hard reality of the world is what most people do not see, I am sure they try, I am also sure that those elected leaders don't wake up every day and say let's kill some people today, or let's screw some people over,

Elected leaders do not have the luxury of that idealism as we do . The average citizen is not privy to all the information they have. They form opinions based off a variety of sources, and come to their own conclusions,

Yes mistakes have been made mistakes will continue to be made if people have some unrealistic viewpoint that Government is perfect?

It has never been,and never will be.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Drezden

 

Still going on about that geez............

The Us has supported a lot of people including Iran, but that has jack to do with Iran war mongering and threatening its neighbors,.

As long as someone is putting words in my mouth or making a reply to one of my posts I'm going to respond to it. Sorry.

How can you say what Iran is doing is "war-mongering" is your view so narrow? Iran is stating that if it is attacked, it will respond with its military. That doesn't sound like war-mongering. That sounds like self-defense. What Israel is doing is real war-mongering. Trying to get the U.S. to attack Iran with them.

The neo-conservative propaganda machine has a very strong hold over your mind. I hope you can free yourself from it.

reply to post by Drezden




Really want to talk propaganda cause that post was full of it maybe someone could free their mind from it, and pretty damn easy to say Iranian war mongering,

reply to post by Drezden

“Has anyone here even spoken to someone who lives in Iran? I have correspondence with several people who live there. Politics annoy them (like many Americans), they don't trust their government (like many Americans), they are victims of propaganda ( like many Americans). They just want to live their lives and watch youtube videos.”

Actually yes, we have.

We love peace as much as we love wiping Israel out of the map