China warns of "serious consequences" for Japan as it sends patrol ships to disputed islands

Hi there, this is my first news thread, but here goes:

The Chinese are furious it seems, and are ready for conflict if necessary.:

www.aljazeera.com... plustweets&utm_medium=MasterAccount

China has sent two patrol ships to a group of islands at the centre of a territorial row with Japan, state news agency Xinhua reported on Tuesday after Tokyo said it would nationalise them.

Xinhua said the two marine surveillance ships had reached the waters around the Diaoyu islands - known in Japan as the Senkaku islands - to "assert the country's sovereignty".

The move came hours after the Japanese ambassador to Beijing was summoned to the foreign ministry to protest Japan's decision to buy three of the islands. The islands will be formally owned by Japan's Coast Guard, that country's government said.

Wen Jiabao, the Chinese prime minister, said the islands were "an inherent part of China's territory" and vowed his country would "never ever yield an inch" on its sovereignty.

The islands lie around 200km from Taiwan and 2,000km from Tokyo in a strategically important shipping area.

Ties between the Asian powers have been tense since August, when pro-China activists landed on one of the islands.

They were arrested by Japanese authorities and deported. Days later, about a dozen Japanese nationalists raised their country's flag on the same island, prompting protests in cities across China.

The Japanese government currently leases four of the islands and owns a fifth. It does not allow people to visit and has a policy of not building anything there.

This is a statement from Xinhua news agency, regarding "serious consequences":

www.fmprc.gov.cn...

The Chinese government solemnly states that the Japanese government's so-called "purchase" of the Diaoyu Island is totally illegal and invalid. It does not change, not even in the slightest way, the historical fact of Japan's occupation of Chinese territory, nor will it alter China's territorial sovereignty over the Diaoyu Island and its affiliated islands. Long gone are the days when the Chinese nation was subject to bullying and humiliation from others. The Chinese government will not sit idly by watching its territorial sovereignty being infringed upon. The Chinese side strongly urges the Japanese side to immediately stop all actions that may undermine China's territorial sovereignty. Japan should truly come back to the very understanding and common ground reached between the two sides, and should return to the track of negotiated settlement of the dispute. Should the Japanese side insist on going its own way, it shall have to bear all serious consequences arising therefrom.

Seems things are heating up over there. Do you guys think this has a chance to turn into a regional conflict, given China's obsession with never losing face?

I think its pretty serious. There were riots in China when the Japanese activists landed there recently.

I dont think there will be war over this though. Unless the United States gets invloved.

Originally posted by Mudja

Japan should truly come back to the very understanding and common ground reached between the two sides, and should return to the track of negotiated settlement of the dispute. Should the Japanese side insist on going its own way, it shall have to bear all serious consequences arising therefrom.

Seems things are heating up over there. Do you guys think this has a chance to turn into a regional conflict, given China's obsession with never losing face?

edit on 11-9-2012 by Mudja because: (no reason given)

That above quote made me laugh out loud. China has NEVER agreed to any kind of mediation with territorial disputes with anyone.

If China is honest about its desire to settle this through mediation, there's a court in The Hague whose sole purpose is binding arbitration on disputes between nations. All they have to do is ask, and Japan can hardly refuse, given that they've asked SK for a similar case over the liancourt rocks.

...of course, if they do that, they'll face a landslide of similar filings from every other country they've got land claims with, And they'll also have to explain why they never brought up this the claim prior to natural gas being found in the area in the 70s, after accepting it as Japanese territory since the 19th century.

oh, and they'll have to figure out which China gets ownership - ROC or the PRC?

Let's be serious, none of that is going to happen. This will burn out fairly quickly - China has elections looming, and they need to distract people's attention for a while.

reply to post by Mudja


I think it is just more bullying by china, anyone else remember Tibet? They have tried to lay claim to Taiwan also, if not for American intervention, it would have been another Tibet. Which has led to the Taiwan coast being the most heavily fortified coast line in the world.

Besides what's china gonna do talk them to death? They lack the ability to project any kind of meaningful power. Their navy is a joke, akin to Gernamies navy in World War 2. It is a non issue at this moment. America has Japans back, china can do nothing but talk smack, I would just tell them to suck it and move along.

Originally posted by inverslyproportional
reply to post by Mudja

 

I think it is just more bullying by china, anyone else remember Tibet? They have tried to lay claim to Taiwan also, if not for American intervention, it would have been another Tibet. Which has led to the Taiwan coast being the most heavily fortified coast line in the world.

Besides what's china gonna do talk them to death? They lack the ability to project any kind of meaningful power. Their navy is a joke, akin to Gernamies navy in World War 2. It is a non issue at this moment. America has Japans back, china can do nothing but talk smack, I would just tell them to suck it and move along.

What makes you think China would need a navy in their part of the world? All those countries are rather close and China would not have any problem in launching an assault from their borders. About Taiwan, Just remember, they may have the most fortified coastline, but with that the Chinese have the same aiming at Taiwan. You make it sound as though China can't even inflict a blow.

reply to post by Mudja


I think it far more likely that "serious consequences" would be more in line with withholding shipments of rare earth minerals or other actions that would have extremely serious economic consequences for Japan rather than any military confrontation.

Military action would be very costly for both sides (not like Japan is Cambodia or Vietnam) and the Chinese aren't stupid. Why risk war when they can cause Japan far more hurt through other methods?

ETA:

S & F for first attempt (still waiting to do mine).

Originally posted by inverslyproportional

They have tried to lay claim to Taiwan also

No offense intended, but this kind of statement really bothers me - it's overly simplistic, overly one-sided, and repeated so often that most people don't even realize there's more to it than that.

Taiwan (ROC) is claimed by China (PRC). Likewise, China is claimed by Taiwan (ROC). This is the official policy of both the PRC and the ROC.

this lays it out quite well:
en.wikipedia.org...

Things may have become a bit more complicated...

Mystery absence of China leader fuels rumor frenzy

BEIJING (AP) -- Where is president-in-waiting Xi Jinping?

Is he nursing a bad back after pulling a muscle in a pick-up soccer game (or maybe in the swimming pool)? Has he been convalescing after narrowly escaping a revenge killing by supporters of ousted local Communist Party boss Bo Xilai? Was he in a car accident? Or is he just really busy getting ready to lead the world's No. 2 economy ahead of an expected leadership transition next month?

More dramatically, the U.S.-based website Boxun.com cited an unidentified source inside Zhongnanhai as saying Xi was injured in a staged traffic accident that was part of a revenge plot by Bo's supporters in the security forces. Another member of the all-powerful Politburo Standing Committee, He Guoqiang, was also injured in a similar incident, said the site, which acts as a clearinghouse for rumors and unsubstantiated reports. It has correctly predicted some recent political developments and been wildly off the mark on others.

Click link for remainder of circus.

Originally posted by inverslyproportional
reply to post by Mudja

 

I think it is just more bullying by china, anyone else remember Tibet? They have tried to lay claim to Taiwan also, if not for American intervention, it would have been another Tibet. Which has led to the Taiwan coast being the most heavily fortified coast line in the world.

Besides what's china gonna do talk them to death? They lack the ability to project any kind of meaningful power. Their navy is a joke, akin to Gernamies navy in World War 2. It is a non issue at this moment. America has Japans back, china can do nothing but talk smack, I would just tell them to suck it and move along.

The German Navy during WWII was a formidable opponent, thanks to their U-Boats of course...

*yawn* that's all these #s ever do is warn. "I'm going to spank you if you do that again"

May the masses realize it is only uninhabited islands, and not countries that each is fighting over. There may or may not be anything of value there, as no extensive tests had been carried out. It would be a horror if those presumed wealth there turns up nothing and hundreds of thousands lives lost battling for it.

There is a split within the CCP govt recently, between the hardliner maoists who have major control over the army, and the democratic reformers who wants to push China to progress and evolution.

President Hu Jintao belongs to the maoist camps. As he is due to step down in October, he do have the priviledges to name his successors in other positions of governance, usually his lackeys, be head of the army, etc - reins within the CCP shadow govt like ex premier Zhao jiming.

Unfortunately, there had been scandals regarding his appointments, and himself seem set to be stripped of power and supporters when he hands over in october. Something is going on in that secretive state that hints of a power struggle.

The diaoyi island issue has been played up hugely in China, and is the single most talked about case now, orchestrated by the CCP govt, stoking high emotions and past greviences, relegated everything else far back, as if the CCP is using on 2 counts - as false flag to hide other far disturbing issues AND to gain masses support for the maoist hardline group to gain power in the power struggle going on.

There is more than meets the eye.......

reply to post by inverslyproportional


China has and will use cruise ships for logistical transport. The US Navy also has arrangements of using tankers, and other vessels if it needs beyond its main fleet. www.wired.com...

You might laugh at this, but then again, Japan is not very far from China, and China does not show all of its cards anyway, or have we all forgotten we are dealing with a civilization that has been around a while, and might have a few cards up the sleeve?

We are talking about the civilization here who invented Military Tactics and strategy, that are still taught at Military Schools across the World.

So I would hope that everyone keeps that in mind, especially seeing many Western Countries struggle to find their way after a few hundred years.

reply to post by HermitShip


It is good to never under-estimate your enemy, BUT we must never OVER - ESTIMATE the enemy as well.

No doubt China has a recorded history of 5000 years, BUT it had always been over-runned and ruled by foreigners. Why?

Apathy and greed by the elites are often the case.

So too is happening today with the corrupted CCP regime. Reformer Wen Jiabo was right to admonish the CCP to wake up to reforms or else the CCP rule will be finished. But Wen is often sidelined.

The CCP can stoke up nationalist fervours, but when the shouting and screaming dies down, when they look around themselves, reality sinks home for most - they had been living as their ancestors did - under corrupted tyranny.


Also, do not, do not think the japanese men are pacified people. USA had a hard time taming their natural brutal instincts for decades through hearts and minds, but it is still there, laying dormant but like a dormant volcano, do not mess with it to unleash it.

They are the descendants of a FANATICAL people whom had NEVER even fear the atomic bombs, 2 directly on them and one more as a threat, yet they fought on. They only stopped because of the military's failure in Manchuria, with the Imperial Japan Army HQ finally admitting to defeat and refused to fight.

Even then, the younger military officers refused to give up and stage many coups just before MacArthur arrived.

So, do not presume the japanese are pushover. Think 10 times they really are compared to the radical suicide bomber. Unleash them and there will be hell on Earth, or whichever part they are involved in.

Maybe it is some posturing, to distract from internal power struggles. But to back down would be China seriously losing face, I thought they hated that.

Originally posted by freemarketsocialist
I think its pretty serious. There were riots in China when the Japanese activists landed there recently.

I dont think there will be war over this though. Unless the United States gets invloved.

It's the other way around. The US will not get involved unless there is war. The only reason there is peace in Asia is the Pacific Fleet. I would almost welcome letting loose the dogs of war and letting Japan smash China again. China needs to be put in their place, the cost would be too high though.