God particle is 'found': Scientists at Cern expected to announce on Wednesday Higgs boson particle

Originally posted by magma
Even if we did understand the universe better because of this proven partical , all man will do is exploit it for personal gain, invoking more pain and suffering.

Man is destructive enough without the key to the secret.

Oh please, Nature killed millions, God (if exist) killed millions. Humans while we do kill we also save lives and our trying are best to make a better world.

Originally posted by repressed
reply to post by ImaFungi

 

The Higgs field gives mass to all the fundamental particles (except neutrinos). Without it they would all be massless, and zip around at the speed of light, so there would be no universe as we know it (atoms, molecules, planets etc)

what exactly is the higgs field then? how does it create mass? what is it made of? am I wrong in assuming that mass is a reaction of "massive" amounts of energy fused together,, forcing the massive amount of energy to not travel at the speed of light?

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


lol at God particle. What is it religious or something?

Second.

reply to post by Alyssa


Who says nature doesn't save anything? Even forest fires leave behind ashes to nourish the next generation. Nature has a natural balance, we're the ones throwing that balance out of whack.

So now they found it .... Whats next?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


besides that point,,,, if god did create the universe,,,,,, life would not have the chance to live a millisecond let alone an entire life , even if there are tragic events,,, to die,,,, if it was not for this creator......

god made me and he lets bad happen,,, wahhh wahhh wahhh ......

reply to post by ImaFungi


That's the problem with asking humans to understand anything godly. They let their own desires and beliefs of how something should work get in the way, never understanding that they're completely missing the bigger picture. They don't understand how the flap of a bird's wing can cause a tornado two weeks down the road, or how a single cough can cause the black plague.

You have a finite mind, therefore an incomplete grasp on what it takes to be a good god. With that understanding, at least, it's easy to see how there could be a god. Just because we can't understand something in its entirety, does not mean it doesn't exist.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


yes totally,,,, i was talking more about allyssas logic.......... she says nature kills humans and things,,,,,, hypothetically we are now assuming nature is god,, a creative force,,,,,, she says god kills humans,,,,,,

im saying if nature is god,,, and nature/god,,, created all there is of our universe,,,,,, and there would be absolutely nothing without nature/god....... then nature/ god has also created everything that can potentially be viewed as good,,,,, it has created the material,, essence, and experience for what we know as life to exist....... a few thousand years ago on this planet,, at least,, all life lived like animals,,,, humans have risen from that,,,,, ive never seen the animals complain,,,,, except maybe a spoiled house cat,,,,, but I think animals realize the gift that their experience of life is,,, their opportunity to interact with reality and nature,,,,

and about what you are saying about not understand how a god works and what not........... i agree..........

its like something trying to create something for the very first time,,,, and only after the fact it can understand all the details and elements of what may be problems,,, uncomfortableness,, or "bad",,.,.,..,,.,.

like an architect builds a beautiful mansion,,,, and the one who the mansion is for,,,, says,,,, i dont like the color you choose for every wall,,,,, also the floors are all material that bother my feet and eyes,,,,,, I want every room to be 3 inches bigger,,,,, i want there to be 2 mirrors in every room,,,, etc....

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


Feels like a deja vu...


December 12, 2011

Tomorrow, at 9am EST, scientists at the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at CERN in Switzerland are expected to announce, with fairly strong certainty, that they have observed the Higgs boson “God” particle at a mass-energy of 125 GeV.

www.extremetech.com...

What happened to the December announcement, then?

reply to post by ImaFungi


When you say nature is god, are you restricting god's boundaries to the nature of Earth, or...?

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


Fascinating but probably not (completely) true..

They will find out that there are smaller particles still after more research.

reply to post by Alyssa


That's technically a fallacy you see.

Because to Nature and God there is no life and death its all just part of one thing it does not distinguish between the two or say one is better then the other, there both just part of a overall cycle of things. So technically from there perspectives nothing dies and everything is merely different configurations of energy, even the energy known as mass. I suppose its all just some sort of universal recycling system.

But ya God Particle cool cheese, lets use it to make some better more advanced super toasters, imagine the possibilities.

But again they did not find anything, they merely think they have witnessed the aftereffects of something which they think may be the catalyst there looking for in the whole chain of events that there experimenting with, and have even named it after some dude named Higgs, and even assume its a particle among a bunch of other assumptions.

If there experiments keeps pumping out the same type of results then they will try to work backwards to find out and categorize what is making it so, slowly eliminating variables till they get down to more base structures to help define it. Or some such.

But you know, it seems that these type of things seem to when observed convert to what you want them to convert to, or what is necessary for them to convert to, be it particle form, or wave form, or both.

Originally posted by iIuminaIi
Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.

- Albert Einstein[color=grey] "Science, Philosophy and Religion: a Symposium", 1941

edit on 2-7-2012 by iIuminaIi because: (no reason given)

lol you forgot:
en.wikipedia.org...

Albert Einstein's religious views have been studied due to his sometimes apparently ambiguous statements and writings on the subject. He believed in the god of Baruch Spinoza, but not in a personal god, a belief he criticized. He also called himself an agnostic, and criticized atheism, preferring he said "an attitude of humility."[1]
***
Einstein used many labels to describe his religious views, including "agnostic"[3] "religious nonbeliever"[4] and a believer in "Spinoza's God."[5]
Personal God and the afterlife

Einstein expressed his skepticism regarding an anthropomorphic deity, often describing it as "naïve" and "childlike". He stated, "It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I feel also not able to imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. My views are near those of Spinoza: admiration for the beauty of and belief in the logical simplicity of the order which we can grasp humbly and only imperfectly. I believe that we have to content ourselves with our imperfect knowledge and understanding and treat values and moral obligations as a purely human problem—the most important of all human problems."[6]

On 22 March 1954 Einstein received a letter from J. Dispentiere, an Italian immigrant who had worked as an experimental machinist in New Jersey. Dispentiere had declared himself an atheist and was disappointed by a news report which had cast Einstein as conventionally religious. Einstein replied on 24 March 1954:

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.[7]

In a letter to Beatrice Frohlich, 17 December 1952 Einstein stated, "The idea of a personal God is quite alien to me and seems even naïve."[8] And to Eric Gutkind he wrote, "The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. These subtilised interpretations are highly manifold according to their nature and have almost nothing to do with the original text."[9]

On 24 April 1929, Einstein cabled Rabbi Herbert S. Goldstein in German: "I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and the doings of mankind."[10]

This was a science experiment and nothing to do with gods or religions, so why can't people keep the religious talk away from here?

reply to post by ImaFungi


Here's a very good article that explains in layman's terms what the brouhaha is all about.

Originally posted by AdAstra
reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

 

Feels like a deja vu...


December 12, 2011

Tomorrow, at 9am EST, scientists at the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at CERN in Switzerland are expected to announce, with fairly strong certainty, that they have observed the Higgs boson “God” particle at a mass-energy of 125 GeV.

www.extremetech.com...

What happened to the December announcement, then?

edit on 2-7-2012 by AdAstra because: (no reason given)

December's result was a 3 sigma evidence (1 in 1000 chance of being wrong). Wednesday's should be closer to 5 sigma (1 in 2 million chance of being wrong), the standard of proof of discovery in particle physics.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


no,,,,,, everything in the universe is related in the fact that it was created via the same process and obeys the same physical laws and is composed of the same particles and atoms,,,,,, if god created the universe,,,,,, or if the universe created itself,,,,,,, god/the universe,,,, created the earth,,,,,, created the stars,,,,,, created the atoms and elements that make up all life,,,,,

Originally posted by 0zzymand0s
reply to post by LoveisanArt

 

The irony is that you just typed that paragraph on a device which is itself a product of over 500 years of continuous innovation in communications and engineering technology. You do not recognize that your feelings regarding this matter are tainted by your own fluffiness. 30 years ago, you would be fortunate to reach 10 people with your message of higher spiritual awareness. Today, you can reach tens of thousands or even millions, using the very science you decry and fail to understand at even a rudimentary level.

There is nothing wrong with a thirst for spiritual food, but don't deny the spoon to spite the bowl.

edit on 2-7-2012 by 0zzymand0s because: (no reason given)

not really spiritual in the new agey way you seem to see unitys post and LIAA's reply but Magical.

frank herbert put it best in Heretics of Dune:

This is the awe-inspiring universe of magic: There are no atoms, only waves and motions all around. Here, you discard all belief in barriers to understanding. You put aside understanding itself. This universe cannot be seen, cannot be heard, cannot be detected in any way by fixed perceptions. It is the ultimate void where no preordained screens occur upon which forms may be projected. You have only one awareness here—the screen of the magi: Imagination! Here, you learn what it is to be human. You are a creator of order, of beautiful shapes and system, an organizer of chaos.
-The Atreides Manifesto, Bene Gesserit Archives

By your belief in singularities, in granular absolutes, you deny movement, even the movement of evolution! While you cause a granular universe to persist in your awareness, you are blind to movement. When things change, your absolute universe vanishes, no longer accessible to your self-limiting perceptions. The universe has moved beyond you.
-First Draft, Atreides Manifesto
Bene Gesserit Archives

We have long known that the objects of our palpable sense experiences can be influenced by choice—both conscious choice and unconscious. This is a demonstrated fact that does not require that we believe some force within us reaches out and touches the universe. I address a pragmatic relationship between belief and what we identify as "real." All of our judgments carry a heavy burden of ancestral beliefs to which we of the Bene Gesserit tend to be more susceptible than most. It is not enough that we are aware of this and guard against it. Alternative interpretations must always receive our attention.
-Mother Superior Taraza: Argument in Council

At the quantum level our universe can be seen as an indeterminate place, predictable in a statistical way only when you employ large enough numbers. Between that universe and a relatively predictable one where the passage of a single planet can be timed to a picosecond, other forces come into play. For the in-between universe where we find our daily lives, that which you believe is a dominant force. Your beliefs order the unfolding of daily events. If enough of us believe, a new thing can be made to exist. Belief structure creates a filter through which chaos is sifted into order.
-Analysis of the Tyrant,
the Taraza File:
BG Archives

www.nightsolo.net...

which i find relevant to the subject of this thread
after all what is "real"

your example of LIAA posting on a computer; doesn't real settle the matter
if you make a post on ATS using your computer and then your alarm wakes you up, who is to say that the computer being used is less real than the one in your room when you get up the morning after

reply to post by Unity_99
reply to post by LoveisanArt

Can it save the collapsing global economy?

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger


I'm not even sure how to answer this. Your query as to which computer is ultimately more "real" is mildly interesting from a pure philosophy point-of-view, but has little or nothing to do with whether or not pure "science" is occulting the metaphysical reality proposed by the poster I originally answered.

I'm honestly not even trying to get into a pissing match here. I saw a thread on the LHC at CERN, and decided to read and post in it because theoretical physics and philosophy turn me on. I didn't realize we were going to go so far off tangent that the novel's of Frank Herbert would seriously be used as evidence against my assertion that this argument couldn't even have happened without 500 years of continuous incremental technological advances in communications and engineering.

When I return a few hours later, I am met by post after post related to god, the spiritual plane, and other metaphysical graffiti -- and none of it has anything at all to do with Bosson's, particle physics or CERN.