Philosophy of god, science, and nothing

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by spy66

 

Perhaps "nothing" is similar to a wave function? This is something that would take me some time to contemplate, and I approach it strictly from a philosophical standpoint (vs the scientific viewpoint of Astayanax).

But it would seem that "nothing" can exist until the point that it is realized that there is "nothing" there, at which point it becomes something. To me, this sounds like an analogy to the collapsing of the wave function.

It would also be a concept that supports "brane theory", which is something I am particularly fond of (where "nothing" creates perturbations that cause a "big bang" to happen, thus creating something).

Nothing is not similar to a wave function. "Nothing" wouldn't have a wave function. Because a wave function is one thing and the void the wave function is within is another thing. That means you have two different things.

- A wave would have the function of time. Because its in motion.

reply to post by spy66


I'm sorry. This is where my metaphorical thinking creates poor communication.

When I say that it is "like a wave function", i am speaking metaphorically only. I mean that "nothing" can only remain "nothing" as long as it is not known about. Once it is known about (meaning, "observed", hence my wave function analogy), it becomes something.

LIke I have said throughout this entire thread, "Nothing cannot exist. You cannot have 1 without other". It is an ages old philosophical axiom.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by spy66

 

I'm sorry. This is where my metaphorical thinking creates poor communication.

When I say that it is "like a wave function", i am speaking metaphorically only. I mean that "nothing" can only remain "nothing" as long as it is not known about. Once it is known about (meaning, "observed", hence my wave function analogy), it becomes something.

LIke I have said throughout this entire thread, "Nothing cannot exist. You cannot have 1 without other". It is an ages old philosophical axiom.

edit on 5-7-2012 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)

Its OK. communication is always a issue when two minds try to communicate

If you think a bit about your idea. Nothingness must still exists even though our universe exists. It cannot disappear.

When we have our universe and nothingness; You have in reality two physical existing dimensions. One we can observe and one that we cannot observe. Because its to far away from us.

reply to post by spy66


There have been a lot of discoveries in the realm of consciousness, etc. One thing that is becoming more clear is that the whole "human as observer" thing is not just a quirk of quantum physics. Obviously quantum physics has to connect to GR, as they both exist side by side. So it would be obvious that quantum effects happen on larger scales, or rather effect larger scales.

Having said this, It could be possible that there is "nothingness" out there somewhere. However, I would say that once we identify that it exists, then it will cease to exist as nothing and become something.

Perhaps the more we look for ancient galaxies, the more ancient galaxies we will find? Perhaps the universe is designed to exist when observed?

reply to post by spy66


is a part of your ideas,,, everything that exists right now,, has always existed in some form ( law of energy conservation) which runs into the problems of the beginning?

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by spy66

 

is a part of your ideas,,, everything that exists right now,, has always existed in some form ( law of energy conservation) which runs into the problems of the beginning?

Not in some form, but in a infinite form. A absolute neutral form. Like nothingness; as some like to call it.

The first dimension must be a infinite empty volume of space/void. There is nothing inside this infinite volume of space/void. Except a infinite empty volume of space/void. There is no waves, matter, particles, gravity, temperature or anything we know of.

But since it exists, it must have a void that is absolutely neutral. Because only a absolutely neutral volume of void can be infinite. And if it is infinite it is a true mathematical constant. That means it wont change by a cause, but by will.

A = A Just like 0 = 0

As you can see there is no cause to form/create anything.

So the equation must look like this:

A + will = Something new. A change.

reply to post by spy66


how does the infinite void have a will? what is its will made of,,, located,,, what caused this will? how does it know anything? how can it do anything? how can it create anything? how can it create everything?


so you believe everything that exists now,,, has always existed in infinite form? even though you believe all physical energy and material if finite in form?

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by spy66

 

how does the infinite void have a will? what is its will made of,,, located,,, what caused this will? how does it know anything? how can it do anything? how can it create anything? how can it create everything?


so you believe everything that exists now,,, has always existed in infinite form? even though you believe all physical energy and material if finite in form?

edit on 5-7-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)

Where is the will located???
Where do you have yours? It sure ain't outside your body. Your body is a finite dimension that has a will of its own within it.

So the infinite must have a will. You cannot have something the infinite dosent have.

The infinite is a lot smarter than you. It is infinite, Your are just a limited finite with limited finite knowledge.


Yes. I believe all finite are of the infinite void. Finite void is compressed infinite void. Our finite void is now expanding back to what it used to be. "Infinite void".

What else would our finite be, if not the of the infinite void?

reply to post by spy66


yes but isnt it infinite nothing?

infinite empty space? how can it have any characteristics except for none?

reply to post by spy66



"Yes. I believe all finite are of the infinite void. Finite void is compressed infinite void. Our finite void is now expanding back to what it used to be. "Infinite void".

What else would our finite be, if not the of the infinite void?"

this is along the lines of buddhist thought like everything is illusion,,, emptiness is form,,,, ?

reply to post by spy66


"What else would our finite be, if not the of the infinite void?"

our universe may be particles that make up a cell,,, in the toenail of one of infinite gods.....

the thing is i really dont know,,,,,, I dont know how I would trust my self,, taking on your point of view,, and telling myself I know the truth.

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by spy66

 

yes but isnt it infinite nothing?

infinite empty space? how can it have any characteristics except for none?

No the infinite is not nothing. It is one thing. And it exists. Just like nothing must be one thing and exist, or you can not use it as a argument.

- For you to use nothing as a argument it must exist.

What is nothing? Nothing is a infinite empty void of space. There is nothing there. It must exist as such for you to use it as a argument.

When there is nothing there; there are no motion, no matter, no gravity because its infinite, and no temperature.

- Nothing is a infinite dimension of empty space.

A infinite dimension is a constant, like 0 or A. But the dimension cannot be non existent so we shouldn't use 0 to describe it. We should use 1. Because it exists as one infinite dimension, there can not be two of them.


---- How can the infinite dimension have any characteristics?

The infinite dimension is a constant, it cannot change unless it wants to. Because there are no external sources to change the infinite dimension. That is why it must have a consciousness/characteristics.

Originally posted by ImaFungi


the thing is i really dont know,,,,,, I dont know how I would trust my self,, taking on your point of view,, and telling myself I know the truth.

Great quote. Great truth. What I said earlier, but more succinct.

reply to post by ImaFungi

our universe may be particles that make up a cell,,, in the toenail of one of infinite gods.....

None can stop you from having that thought. But honestly do you think so?

the thing is i really dont know,,,,,, I dont know how I would trust my self,, taking on your point of view,, and telling myself I know the truth.

The only one you can trust is your self. What i say is not something you should take for the truth until you have checked it and understood it. When you understand it, you can make a decision on; if it holds ground or not.

reply to post by spy66


no thats not really what i think,,,,,,,,

But what do you really think the universe is?

you think God ( the infinite void) was ?fortunate? enough to to be given a self ( from whom or what? from nothing?) and this god could realize it self,,, and was an individual? and this infinite void just existed undisturbed unexistingly forevers beyond forevers,, eternities,,, eons,,, infinities of googolplexes times,,, and then created the universe we live in,,,, out of compressed absence,,,, using nothing as its only tool,,,,,

The one issue I have about this is that "nothing" is not scientifically endorsed. It may be assumed by some because of our linear understanding of time, however there is no evidence to suggest that "nothing" ever existed. Cosmic censorship doesn't allow us to go back that far. It is widely believed by scientists that it was an extremely dense singularity of energy that exploded, not that it magically poofed into existence out of nothing. Where did the singularity come from? That's the real question. Was it always there? Was it part of another universe or dimension? Too much to think about.

reply to post by ImaFungi

you think God ( the infinite void) was ?fortunate? enough to to be given a self ( from whom or what? from nothing?) and this god could realize it selgoogolplexes times,,, and then created the universe we live in,,,, out of compressed absence,,,, using nothing as its only toolf,,, an,,,,, d was an individual? and this infinite void just existed undisturbed unexistingly forevers beyond forevers,, eternities,,, eons,,, infinities of

The infinite always was and always is. And so was its awareness. This dimension can never have been created, because its a constant; its infinite.

A constant that can form finite must be intelligent.

You have to be quite intelligent when you can get 0 to form a 1. Or a nothing to make something appear. To you and me this is impossible. Because we are limited, the infinite is not.

reply to post by spy66


Philosophy says there cannot be a zero. Once you identify it as zero ("nothing") it becomes 1 (a single "something").. Zero is not a real number.

I guess you are a genius, huh? You have just made something out of nothing.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by spy66

 

Philosophy says there cannot be a zero. Once you identify it as zero ("nothing") it becomes 1 (a single "something").. Zero is not a real number.

I guess you are a genius, huh? You have just made something out of nothing.

edit on 5-7-2012 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)

Jesses.
I was just making a point.

there has been always one existence. and we are all nothings. how!?
it is logical that nothing can not cause something(existence) since it should have a cause. and chance is not a good word. it refers to an event that we can not understand the causes of that.
so there should be always an existence. and when the imperfections(nothings) of that existence gets together and make a something.
that existence is the God. and we are the creatures the collections of nothings.
for example God is the most compassionate and merciful and we are also compassionate and merciful but not the most.