Why Christians can (& should) believe in aliens without losing their faith..

Hi all.

Something that's weighed on me since becoming a Christian, is that most of us don't believe in aliens. We state that we are not told, anywhere in scripture, that such beings exist beyond the sphere of the Earth.

Now before you slam down some cliched two-line nonsense about the errancy of scripture and the fallibility of religion, the lack of proof for God and so forth (or the tired old sack which says that God himself is an alien), just hold your horses for a moment and bear me out. And when you do reply (if you choose to) please keep it firmly on-topic, keeping to the subject mater in hand - namely whether Christians can believe in aliens without corrupting/ losing their faith.

Off-topic or aggressive/ disruptive posts will be alerted to mods. ATS is supposed to be civilised.



So, I began reading through the Bible again recently (having not read it in a long time). I was determined to search out the truth of all manner of things, and I've been happy with the results of my search so far. I believe God has blessed my endeavour. I've looked into matters of faith and salvation, matters of justice and oppression, matters of the living and the dead, matters of earth, the universe, heaven, eternity (etc)...

One of the key things I wanted to know was whether there is any suggestion in scripture that there is life in the physical universe beyond our own planet.

I now present some scriptural evidence pointing to that exact suggestion - these, and other scriptures, convince me that life beyond our planet is almost without doubt - and that God has not left this mystery unanswered in Holy Scripture.

Whether it is relevant to us that such life exists will be examined also - a key point...


First - a word regarding the way in which God can reveal new things to us - that not everything has already been told, that not everything to be known is written down yet...

Jeremiah 33:2-3 (Complete Jewish Bible)

2 “Thus says Adonai the maker,
Adonai who formed [the universe]
so as to keep directing it —
Adonai is his name:
3 ‘Call out to me,
and I will answer you —
I will tell you great things,
hidden things of which you are unaware.’”

Here's a word regarding similar novel revelations:

Isaiah 48:6-8 (New Living Translation)

6 You have heard my predictions and seen them fulfilled,
but you refuse to admit it.
Now I will tell you new things,
secrets you have not yet heard.
7 They are brand new, not things from the past.
So you cannot say, ‘We knew that all the time!’
8 “Yes, I will tell you of things that are entirely new,
things you never heard of before.

The above are just two examples of the way God has spoken to his prophets and revealed that there is 'more to come' - that we should keep an open mind...

Here is the word that opened my eyes to the possibility that God may have spoken quite clearly about the existence of 'extra-terrestrials' and 'a covert extra-terrestrial presence on Earth'... The way in which Paul the apostle recorded these words suggests that he is privy to divine revelation concerning these (as he says) facts.

1 Corinthians 8:5-7 (J.B. Phillips New Testament)

5 For though there are so-called gods both in heaven and earth, gods and lords galore in fact,

6 to us there is only one God, the Father, from whom everything comes, and for who we live. And there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom everything exists, and by whom we ourselves are alive.

7 But this knowledge of ours is not shared by all men.

That's quite clear, in my humble opinion. '..gods and lords galore'...



Next up, a word that points us to the very life, death and resurrection of Christ as being relevant to the people of earth, and 'everything in heaven' - in terms of the salvation that He brings. According to the consensus opinion of most Christians, the salvation of God belongs to those who live in physical bodies, within the universe we live in. The definition of 'heaven' here refers to 'the skies beyond the earth', as opposed to 'the heavenly realms' - or other dimensions - beyond our physical universe.

NB - Diverting slightly for a moment - I like to think that God has a way of redeeming people after death - I point to OOBEs that have been recorded by those who have experienced the death of their physical body, prior to resurrection by the emergency medical teams in hospital... They often explain that they were taken up to Heaven, meeting with angels, or even with Christ, before being sent back. Many times, such folk were not Christian at the time they died.

Colossians 1:19-20 (New Living Translation)

For God in all his fullness
was pleased to live in Christ,
20 and through him God reconciled
everything to himself.
He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth
by means of Christ’s blood on the cross.

He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth.. Now the angels of the extra-dimensional 'heavenly realms' do not need the salvation of God - they live according to His will. My thoughts, having weighed the matter for some time, is that Christ - the living word of God - was born onto the earth owing to its specific state of being 'fallen' and at the mercy of the dark powers under the arch-nemesis of God. Christ's death and resurrection made peace for the people of earth - but anywhere else in the universe that salvation is needed, they will be pointed to the example of Christ's incarnation on the earth, and through the medium of visions/ word-of-mouth from the prophets of other races, the 'aliens' will be able to accept Him and his work of redemption. He would not need to be incarnated on other planets, as we are told that he died 'once for all'.

John 20:29

29 Then Jesus told him, “You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me.”

Then of course there is the prospect that non-fallen races exist elsewhere in the universe. CS Lewis wrote a fantastic treatise on the idea, called 'The Cosmic Trilogy'. Every Christian with any interest in the subject should read these books - they are eye-opening, 'scripturally sound' and highly entertaining. The first in the trilogy is the most widely read, and is called 'Out of the Silent Planet'.




* continued below *

Now there are many Christians who claim that all 'alien' or 'UFO' activity is demonic in nature, and as a result they shy away from the subject. There is scripture that suggests that at least some of the aliens/ 'gods' are in fact acting in opposition to God and His plans for the people of the Earth. Below is an example of a prophecy made against the aliens/ 'gods' who act in such a way:

Isaiah 24:21-22 (New Living Translation)

21 In that day the Lord will punish the gods in the heavens
and the proud rulers of the nations on earth.
22 They will be rounded up and put in prison.
They will be shut up in prison
and will finally be punished.

Note that the prophecy lumps both the 'gods' in the heavens (physical skies and beyond) and the rulers of earth in one basket - they are acting in allegiance with each other, against the will of God and against the best interests of the people of Earth. God states that they will be imprisoned - essentially that they will be exiled into a bad place where they can no longer do any harm to His people on Earth. That would be Hell then.

Here is a charge against them:

Psalm 58 (English Standard Version Anglicised)

Do you indeed decree what is right, you gods?
Do you judge the children of man uprightly?
2 No, in your hearts you devise wrongs;
your hands deal out violence on earth.

Notice that the psalmist makes a distinction between the 'gods' and the 'children of man' - two distinct races.

Next up is a statement concerning the way that the rulers on Earth have colluded with the 'gods' to extend their physical lives, to escape death. This sounds very much like the ideas that can be found around the conspiracy world, the theories that the aliens live for a very long time (thinking of the 'gods' of ancient Sumer). It makes sense that the rulers are seeking immortality, in the form of technological advances offered by the 'gods' with whom they consort:

Isaiah 28:14-15 (New Living Translation)

14 Therefore, listen to this message from the Lord,
you scoffing rulers in Jerusalem.
15 You boast, “We have struck a bargain to cheat death
and have made a deal to dodge the grave.[c]
The coming destruction can never touch us,
for we have built a strong refuge made of lies and deception.”

- God responds to their defiance thus:

18 I will cancel the bargain you made to cheat death,
and I will overturn your deal to dodge the grave.
When the terrible enemy sweeps through,
you will be trampled into the ground.

Next up is a statement regarding the physicality of the 'gods' - the fact that they have actual, physical bodies:

Isaiah 57:8-9 (New Living Translation)

8 You have put pagan symbols
on your doorposts and behind your doors.
You have left me
and climbed into bed with these detestable gods.
You have committed yourselves to them.
You love to look at their naked bodies.
9 You have given olive oil to Molech
with many gifts of perfume.
You have traveled far,
even into the world of the dead**,
to find new gods to love.

** this line refers to astral projection - an occult practice that the Bible mentions in a few places. It can occur involuntarily or voluntarily, and is deemed an unsafe practice when one becomes a Christian - this is because there are many dark powers in the 'heavenly realms' who would love an opportunity to interfere with the soul dynamics of those who are committed to God.



The next scripture relates to the way in which Christ's ministry and death, resurrection, ascension etc were designed by God to be an example of His power and plans, an example aimed at the rulers and authorities of the 'heavens' (skies and beyond).

Ephesians 3 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)

8 ..to proclaim to the Gentiles the incalculable riches of the Messiah,
9 and to shed light for all about the administration of the mystery
hidden for ages in God who created all things.
10 This is so God’s multi-faceted wisdom may now be made known
through the church to the rulers and authorities in the heavens.

* continued below *

Finally, some examples of God's revelation of certain elements of the cosmology of the physical universe that could not be known by the people to whom the messages were originally given:

Jeremiah 31:35-37 (New Living Translation)

35 It is the Lord who provides the sun to light the day
and the moon and stars to light the night,
and who stirs the sea into roaring waves.
His name is the Lord of Heaven’s Armies,
and this is what he says:
36 “I am as likely to reject my people Israel
as I am to abolish the laws of nature!”
37 This is what the Lord says:
“Just as the heavens cannot be measured
and the foundations of the earth cannot be explored,
so I will not consider casting them away
for the evil they have done.
I, the Lord, have spoken!

In the above, we read that 'the foundations of the earth cannot be explored', and that the 'heavens cannot be measured'. These scriptures stand the test of time, and are as true today as they were then. My opinion is that this is a hint to the searching souls of Earth in modern times, that God spoke a few words that most certainly could not be contradicted by modern science (or 'wisdom') - in order to prove that He spoke from beyond the realm of Humanity. In the same passage, God states clearly that the laws of nature are in His power to change - but that He will not do so.

Here's a statement concerning the nature of Earth itself:

Job 26:7 (New Living Translation)

7 God stretches the northern sky over empty space
and hangs the earth on nothing.

A perfect description of Earth's axial tilt, and the existence of Earth independent from any base foundation - it 'hangs... on nothing'.


* continued below *

So - is this relevant to us as Christians? I think the answer is a resounding YES.

We are being pumped full of propaganda about aliens, and many people (particularly in the conspiracy world) are expecting that at some point soon we will discover evidence of extra-terrestrial life. Whether this evidence comes from an official disclosure by the rulers of Earth (unlikely) or from a 'shock and awe' display by the extra-terrestrial powers themselves (likely, imho), how will we respond? Will people be thrown into confusion, doubting their faith, doubting the precepts of their deepest beliefs?

I think that there is a risk of worldwide decimation of the established faiths.

Key points to remember from this thread, as noted in scripture, relevant to the days we live in:

There are rulers of earth and rulers of the (physical) heavens. Some are in allegiance with each other, and do not have the best intentions of earth's people at heart.

God has promised that He will condemn the deceitful alliance.

Christ died to demonstrate the mysteries of God's plan to all the rulers and authorities, on Earth, in the (physical) heavens, and to those who occupy the 'unseen world' or 'heavenly realms'.

NB - These unseen/ heavenly realms I will look at in another thread.

Some of the rulers and authorities of the physical heavens live in accordance with God's will, and therefore celebrate Christ's ministry on Earth - and some don't.

God demonstrated in scripture some points of cosmology which could not have been known by the authors of the Old Testament - He spoke minimally on these points, as they are not key to our walk with Him; however, we are called to be 'wise as serpents', and so all the knowledge we can glean from scripture is useful - more so in these days of seemingly limitless worldly knowledge.




I liked the new film Prometheus, because it was a decent film in itself, and because there was a message of optimism regarding the nature of those who 'keep the faith'.

I won't spoil the film for those who haven't seen it, but we should be cautious to maintain our walk with God, even in the face of alien presence/ occupation... Which some people seem to believe will be headed our way fairly soon.

Romans 8:38-39 (New Living Translation)

And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God’s love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow—not even the powers of hell can separate us from God’s love.

No power in the sky above or in the earth below—indeed, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Fight the good fight of faith - and don't assume that ET is our enemy/ a demon. But be aware that some of them are!

Christianity at times has readily excepted the plurality of worlds, it is only modern Christianity and fundementalism at that , that would seem to have a problem with aliens.

So

what kind of christian-pastor says that if aliens exist it ruins the christian faith??

probably the christian-pastor who dosent know sh@t about christianity.

nowhere it is mentioned that if aliens exist the christian faith will be shaken.

reply to post by FlyInTheOintment


Joel ch 2 and the 5th trumpet...just two reasons among others. Wheels in the sky etc....Not really much of a leap.

Originally posted by IMSAM
So

what kind of christian-pastor says that if aliens exist it ruins the christian faith??

probably the christian-pastor who dosent know sh@t about christianity.

This is completely false.

Most Christian pastors are aware that the topic of alien life is essentially taboo in the minds of many of their flock, and as a result they don't attempt to cover the subject - they are concerned that they might cause their church members to stumble. They are otherwise fine members of Christ's church and lead their flock well.

It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything else if it might cause another believer to stumble.

In scripture, God doesn't devote much time to the exposition of the topic of life elsewhere in the universe. Quite simply - He knows we have enough to worry about here.

The only reason I am working on understanding this problem, is so that those Christians (or anyone else for that matter) who are curious about the topic, can find a resource to encourage them to keep an open mind.

Also, I believe we as a race will soon be subjected to a massive propaganda/ illusion/ false flag campaign, concerning the topic of UFOs/ aliens, and it is wise to be versed in what the scripture says about these things.

There's a much simpler reason to believe that other life possibly exists elsewhere in the universe, and that's just because of the sheer size of the universe.

And Christians should have no problem reconciling their belief in life elsewhere with their faith. The Catholic Church has no problem with extraterrestrial life. The Vatican Astronomer feels that the universe has other intelligent life, and all of that life is God's creation:

Article: Vatican scientist says belief in God and aliens is OK

The Vatican's chief astronomer says there is no conflict between believing in God and in the possibility of "extraterrestrial brothers" perhaps more evolved than humans. "In my opinion this possibility (of life on other planets) exists," said Rev. Jose Gabriel Funes, a 45-year-old Jesuit priest who is head of the Vatican Observatory and a scientific adviser to Pope Benedict.

"How can we exclude that life has developed elsewhere," he told the Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano in an interview in its Tuesday-Wednesday edition, explaining that the large number of galaxies with their own planets made this possible.

Asked if he was referring to beings similar to humans or even more evolved than humans, he said: "Certainly, in a universe this big you can't exclude this hypothesis".

I'm not an overly religious person myself (nor am I non-religious), but I never understood why some Christian Fundamentalists feel that the bible excludes ET life. I agree with the catholic Church's idea that God created the entire universe, and that universe could include ETs...

...HOWEVER, I think this Christian Fundamentalist view is a minority view among Christians.

This "we are the only intelligent life" argument is not a Christian view as a whole, but a view of only a few Fundamentalist Christian groups. Most Christians (those who understand the size of the universe) probably do not agree with that fundamentalist view.

So maybe your title should have been "Why Christians Fundamentalists can (& should) believe in aliens without losing their faith", because i think for most Christians, you're preaching to the choir (no pun intended).

Taking the Bible out of the arguement, how dare any finite being percieve they have the authority to decree walls of a box to tell an Infinite Being how to conduct It's business.That goes for any religion, science, or social endeavor. Outrageous. You have the authority to try describing what you hold inside, but no authority to establish those perceptions as what everyone must also engage in.

reply to post by FlyInTheOintment


I am a Christian and believe in ETS the Bible talks about ETs all the time... so.. yeah

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
There's a much simpler reason to believe that other life possibly exists elsewhere in the universe, and that's just because of the sheer size of the universe.

Size of the universe has nothing to do with the possibility of life elsewhere. Evolutionists simply use the argument that SINCE life evolved here, THEN it most likely happened elsewhere. Christians don't. If life exists elsewhere, it was created by Our Creator.

And Christians should have no problem reconciling their belief in life elsewhere with their faith. The Catholic Church has no problem with extraterrestrial life.

The Catholic Church is part of the beast. Why would you believe anything that it and it's multiple factions state?

I'm not an overly religious person myself (nor am I non-religious), but I never understood why some Christian Fundamentalists feel that the bible excludes ET life. I agree with the catholic Church's idea that God created the entire universe, and that universe could include ETs.

Fundamental is defined as the core tenants and foundations of any subject matter. All Christians should therefore hold to these beliefs. Scripture is clear that God is raising sons of God, from Adam's lineage, for the Kingdom of God. Sons of God are higher than angels. This doesn't leave a whole lot of room for the need of life on other planets. The point of difference, however, is that God clearly states that He allows a strong delusion in order to usher in 'the lie'...'the son of perdition'...and the ones who will believe it are those who reject 'the Truth' - 'the Son of God'. I'll give you one shot at guessing who and what the theory of evolution has prepped millions of people to believe is our creator? Extraterrestrials. The Catholic Church, who you want everyone to listen to, know scripture as well. They know the 'son of perdition' is coming, they are helping to usher him in.

I think this "we are the only intelligent life" argument is not a Christian view, but a view of only a few Fundamentalist Christian groups. Most Christians (those who understand the size of the universe) probably do not agree with that fundamentalist view.

I'm beginning to take your post as nothing but a put down of fundamental Christianity - again, if a Christian does not hold to the gospel preached to them in scripture, they have fallen to false teachers. You'd rather believe the Catholic Church lies because they fit the paradigm in your head. The Catholic Church knows fully well what's coming, because they are part of the beast. They tell you anything, but should you believe them? No.

The problem for Christians comes when the question arises - what if God is also a being beyond this planet and star system? Sure, of course they would be ok if a microbe was found on Europa, Gliese planetary system or some other not discovered so far. But what happens when the fundamental creationism questions are different from the understanding so far about it?

And how can you be so sure that the same God created these microbes elsewhere? Or would it be Panspermia to make an excuse and not bother with the question of origin of such organism beyond our system. I think such organism will be found one day, but I think not before few hundreds of years pass. I am not that DELUSIONAL as a lot of astronomers or scientists believe - that we will find microbial life within the next decades. Nope, not until centuries pass.

reply to post by FlyInTheOintment

Something that's weighed on me since becoming a Christian, is that most of us don't believe in aliens.

I don't know about that. I was raised in a Roman Catholic family, but "aliens" were never even discussed; and none of my relatives or other people I know, of the same faith, have a problem with believing that there most likely are extraterrestrials, perhaps even visiting us. It's never been an issue.

Anyway, since I've become aware that is is a problem for some Christians, I've been wondering how that could be.
Some "faith" they've got!

reply to post by Imtor

The problem for Christians comes when the question arises - what if God is also a being beyond this planet and star system?

If God is the intelligence that created the uni-verse - literally, everything, including every possible "parallel universe", should they exist - why would that be a problem?

While i am not a Christian, i do have a great interest in religion and scriptures - this is a fascinating thread, very well written and i will have to return to it when i have more time. It has also given me a new perspective on this issue and i am keen to read the thoughts of other users, many thanks!

Originally posted by AdAstra
reply to post by Imtor

 

The problem for Christians comes when the question arises - what if God is also a being beyond this planet and star system?

If God is the intelligence that created the uni-verse - literally, everything, including every possible "parallel universe", should they exist - why would that be a problem?

I don't think it is a problem for most Christians, just a few Fundamental Christians. This idea of "humans are the only intelligent life" seems to be the opinion of a MINORITY of Christians.

As I said in my post above, the Catholic Church has said it is OK to believe in other intelligent life elsewhere -- in fact the Pope's official science adviser personally feels that ETs probably do exist somewhere else in the universe.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
I never understood why some Christian Fundamentalists feel that the bible excludes ET life.

I think this "we are the only intelligent life" argument is not a Christian view, but a view of only a few Fundamentalist Christian groups. Most Christians (those who understand the size of the universe) probably do not agree with that fundamentalist view.

They have valid religious and logical reasons (following what the bible says) to believe that if they actually take what the bible says seriously. I'm not even talking about taking the bible literally in every verse. Because they know far superior intelligent Aliens from nimbus 5 will most probably not endorse their religious worldviews and have Jesus as their savior.

I posit it is astronomically unlikely they would support one religious worldview over another. It follows that being vastly more intelligent would have their own worldviews different and more based on reality and probably provable. How was the universe made? How was man made? They could have the answers to these and would cause DIRECT conflict with the bible and religion in general.

This causes intense amount of Cognitive dissonance to Christians because it would shatter their belief system, and they'll be scrambling to label nearly everything in the bible as an allegory. Creation - "oh that's just an allegory really it really didn't happen that way tbh." Adam and Eve - "oh that's just an allegory really it really didn't happen that way tbh." etc.

So they try and marry the two with the following:

1 Ignoring the above point(s) in the following manner:



2 presenting vague Old Testament texts as evidence there is no cognitive conflict.

God does not lie, it is impossible, but here he has conveniently omitted very important info. Does a divine being who cannot lie starts being deliberately vague and obtuse text from the Old Testament giving us a *nudge nudge wink wink* on such important info. . . that doesn't sound like how God would present such important info let alone not have the foreknowledge that it would cause angst and confusion amongst his followers. Just comes across as desperate rationalizing.

Very good thread sir.

I'm not sold as I do not think that the scriptures you quoted relate to ET's at all. It's a bit of a stretch to me.

I've seen more compelling scripture which indicates humans lived with dinosaurs, but not ET's IMO

What I find very interesting is the comments by other members here and those pictures you posted with flying saucer looking things in them......very cool, I would like to investigate the artists who made them.

reply to post by FlyInTheOintment

It is refreshing to see a Christian take an open-minded approach to scripture. Personally, I think you bring up some good points, and add fresh perspective to verses that are often stale to most Christians. However, you have some doctrinal issues that many Christians are going to take issue with. Vehemently! I'm going to try and cover a few of these, and give scripture where my memory allows me to...

Lets start with the big one you knew was coming when you posted this. The Devil himself. He is...
The father of lies. John 8:44
The accuser of the brethren. Rev 12:10
Appears as an angel of light 2Cor. 11:14
He plots and schemes against Gods people (wiles) Eph. 6:11
He wants to be worshipped as a God, and set his throne above God's. Is. 14:13
And last but not least, he is the god of this world system, and has a domain. John 12:31 Eph. 6:12

So what's my point? From a doctrinal viewpoint. Whatever is not of faith, is sin(Romans 14:23). Or to put it another way in this instance. "This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you". Gal 5:8
From the perspective of many, the belief in other gods, "which are not gods at all", is akin to the same deception that was pulled off by Satan in chapter 6 of Genesis. We all know about it. "The Sons of God came to the daughters of men..." yada yada yada. For many, this is the introduction of Aliens and gods to the human race. This was one of the biggest deceptions of all time. And has spawned thousands of years of debate, and false religions and gods. I'll leave it there on this part. I'm sure there will be someone along later to fill in the rest.

The next doctrinal problems refer to interpreting scripture out of context, and not having any other scriptures to connect the direction you are going. The verses in Jeremiah and Isaiah you quote are references to the mystery of Christ, and those things which "angels desire to look into". Eph 5:32, 1Peter 1:12, and others. Is it a weak argument? Yeah. But it will still be thrown at you.

1Corinthians 8:4-7 (KJV)

4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. 5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. 7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

Here, your going to be accused of taking verses out of context. It is obvious Paul is speaking of idols. As to this... (as there be gods many, and lords many,). From a doctrinal perspective, there are NO other gods. Period. They may be called gods. But they are no more than idols, men, and fallen angels masquerading. I won't list all the scriptures referring to this, there are many. See 2Kings 19, Isaiah 37, !Kings 18, and so on.

but anywhere else in the universe that salvation is needed, they will be pointed to the example of Christ's incarnation on the earth, and through the medium of visions/ word-of-mouth from the prophets of other races, the 'aliens' will be able to accept Him and his work of redemption. He would not need to be incarnated on other planets, as we are told that he died 'once for all'.

Here is where you really run into problems. The redemptive work of Christ was directly tied to the first covenant, and therefore the law.
Romans 5:20

Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound.

In order for Christ's redemptive work to have effect outside of humans, every civilization on every planet would of necessity have to be under the Abrahamic covenant.
Romans 5:13

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

So these civilizations would have no sin unless they were under the law of god. And it would have to be the same covenant for Christ's death and resurrection to be atoning. The same promises would have to have been made. The same bible would have to apply. And since he was the second Adam, where is the first in these other civilizations?

Continued...