A word on Enlightenment

reply to post by Theophorus


how close minded you are OP. phsically we are 'finite'. if you have *ever* had a thought, a dream, listened to your 'self' - your inner, you would realize that the mind and consciousness, to be 'awake' is infinite. some people see colors, patterns, numbers, or hear sounds, voices (or all of the above) and when you understand what you are *creating* in your mind... it is indeed infinite. you can think of what ever you want, you can think of *anything* and you can do it an infinite amount of time if you had the brain power, the creativeness. although you obviously live in a world where you never question, listen and believe everything you see and hear. to me you are kidding your self. your making a fool out of yourself. and with this thread you have made yourself a complete fool and joke, to yourself. it is such a shame i came accross this thread cause it really did make me feel sad, and i am being honest. to see how blind, stubborn and ignorant people are because they dont get 'it'. on the bright side you made the front page and only received 2 flags for your shameless efforts in understanding enlightenment, that is good to see. wake up you fool.

reply to post by Theophorus


Did you just read the tao te ching?

Originally posted by Theophorus
This goes out to all you New agers.To be enlightened is to be aware. To have an awareness of something, one must have KNOWLEDGE of the existence of that something. In this case that something being enlightenment or awareness which in turn can only be boiled down to knowledge itself.Now, People are finite beings meaning we have limited boundaries. The knowledge we gain is also finite. Point being made is that in our finite state enlightenment is un-obtainable.Anyone looking into there finite self to find infinite knowledge is just kidding themself.

Of course people have a right to post whatever they like, but IMO this post is a great example of negative vibes and/or low frequency.

Again, in my opinion, if you are making statements like this you are completely missing the point and do not yet have the potential for being awakened/enlightened - I'm not sure whether that potential exists in everyone - I assume it does.

Also, many people differentiate between being enlightened and being awakened.

For me, being enlightened could refer to acquiring revealing knowledge on a certain topic, but not necessarily implying being awakened.

Again, for me, being awakened is more a complete awareness of what is right and desirable and what is wrong and undesirable in the world, along with spiritual growth - and I realize that may be a huge oversimplification.

However, as with most journeys, being awakened is just the first step.

Originally posted by Theophorus

Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by Theophorus

 

Ive investigated Advaita and found it to be true. The mind superimposes itself over reality which itself is naked and without superimposition. When One realizes that One's mind is not who they are, then the Illusion is dropped and there is a Union with the Oneness of the All.

Do you really want to play the "looking into their finite self to find Infinite Knowledge is kidding themselves" card?

I looked into myself and eventually found there is no me, there is only WHat is, which is everything and everything is One. Mind is Illusion superimposition machine.

We have tthousands of years of philosophy, metaphysics, esotericism, and probably hundreds of thousands of books all pointing to this. Some of the greatest minds in History knew this and advocated it

edit on 20-6-2012 by dominicus because: (no reason given)

advaita philosophy accept as "real" that which neither changes nor ceases to exist~ in the words of Shankara .what is meant by that? Considering what you said the mind superimposes over reality

edit on 20-6-2012 by Theophorus because: (no reason given)

Awareness never changes nor ceases to exist because it does not appear to exist.

Originally posted by TRGreer
reply to post by jiggerj

 

"I too sometimes get a sense of awe at this life, but then I think on how people were once so awed over such things as hurricanes and tornadoes and volcanoes that they believed, "Surely, there must be a god behind all of this."

You are not awed by these things anymore? I am amazed everyday by nature and the workings of this planet. I feel sad for you.

Oh yes, I am still awed, but in nature's beauty and fury, without the slightest feelings that these things are caused by otherworldly means.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by Theophorus

Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by Theophorus

 

Ive investigated Advaita and found it to be true. The mind superimposes itself over reality which itself is naked and without superimposition. When One realizes that One's mind is not who they are, then the Illusion is dropped and there is a Union with the Oneness of the All.

Do you really want to play the "looking into their finite self to find Infinite Knowledge is kidding themselves" card?

I looked into myself and eventually found there is no me, there is only WHat is, which is everything and everything is One. Mind is Illusion superimposition machine.

We have tthousands of years of philosophy, metaphysics, esotericism, and probably hundreds of thousands of books all pointing to this. Some of the greatest minds in History knew this and advocated it

edit on 20-6-2012 by dominicus because: (no reason given)

advaita philosophy accept as "real" that which neither changes nor ceases to exist~ in the words of Shankara .what is meant by that? Considering what you said the mind superimposes over reality

edit on 20-6-2012 by Theophorus because: (no reason given)

The seer of the illusion (awareness) never changes nor ceases to exist because it does not appear to exist.

If the seer sees illusion that seer is illusion. Only a seer that sees Reality is real. What is real cannot see, express, experience, create, touch, smell, be what is not real. What is Real does not have any relationship whatsoever with what is not Real. It is not possible. Reality is not inclusive of illusion.

The paradox is not that Reality and illusion co-exist. The paradox is that illusion seemingly exists at all. This paradox does not exist in Reality. It "exists" in our non-reality. One that experiences illusion is illusory. There is no separation between what is Real and what is not Real in Reality. Not because they are combined into one thing.. But because what is not Real does not exist in Reality.

As illusion we do not have Truth at our disposal to interpret or communicate Reality. Meditate, think, calculate, observe, contemplate your entire life. It makes no difference. It is not a choice. Water doesn't choose to be wet. And awareness does not choose to seek. Awareness and consciousness are the grand illusion's ego. "We are one" in our awareness. But that one is not the one.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by bowtomonkey
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Embrace the fact that 'human thought' is a byproduct of the engine called the brain.

Not at all true.

Interesting how the people who know the least are the first to tell everyone what is truth.

Then enlighten us on how thought can manifest itself. We'd really love to know.

How does a mirage manifest itself? It doesn't. It's an illusion. And so is thought.

Originally posted by 1beerplease
it is indeed infinite. you can think of what ever you want, you can think of *anything* and you can do it an infinite amount of time if you had the brain power,

But no one has that kind of brain power.

And guess what, you cannot think of whatever you want. You can only think on what is humanly possible to think.
You cannot think like a worm, or a god. You are human. Your body is human. Your brain is human. You (we) are products of the universe machine, just like a machine spitting out hot dogs, but hot dogs don't think they are more than what they are.

Originally posted by rwfresh

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by bowtomonkey
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Embrace the fact that 'human thought' is a byproduct of the engine called the brain.

Not at all true.

Interesting how the people who know the least are the first to tell everyone what is truth.

Then enlighten us on how thought can manifest itself. We'd really love to know.

How does a mirage manifest itself? It doesn't. It's an illusion. And so is thought.

A mirage? As in the mind-machine forming something that isn't there? Would a mirage exist if there were no brains? I don't think so.

Originally posted by NorEaster

Originally posted by rwfresh

Originally posted by NorEaster

The idea that there are infinite halves between one point and another is the contraction end of infinity. The paradox is that if you always move one half the distance closer from point A to point B, you'll never actually reach point B, due to the 1/2 distance reduction proceeding for infinity. This, however, was proven to not be true when Max Planck determined that this infinite scale gradient can't possibly exist, since if it did exist, then the electron orbits could never maintain their uniformity, and material existence could never progress from the simplest orbital structure of one single atom.

And, yes, it's just that simple. The quantum is the proof that the infinite distance scale gradient is non-existent in material/physical reality, and only exists in the arguments of human beings. That being the case, infinity as an expansion concept also cannot exist, since infinity - by it's very definition - must be infinite in expansion and reduction if it's to actually exist. Since it doesn't - and can't - exist in reduction, it can't - and doesn't - exist in expansion either. This is because if infinity is not an absolute, then it's not infinite. Logic isn't invented by people. It's recognized as existent by people. You can dismiss it, but it doesn't change the fact that it lays the sub-structure for everything that exists as real.

edit on 6/20/2012 by NorEaster because: (no reason given)

Hi Noreaster, first off sorry if i came of as a prick. I don't doubt that you are an intelligent thoughtful person. Some of your posts speak for themselves. I enjoy them. But we obviously have trouble getting past each others interpretation of Reality. Although i can understand your use of the word, i do not agree with it because your strong belief that it is finite and knowable. I'm just pointing out the issue. I know you do not agree with my use of the word. I understand you believe me to be a juvenile teenager just waking up to the more sophomoric ideas of Reality. I won't try and convince you otherwise! I appreciate your comments. So keep doing as you please. I'm sure you will.

You cannot measure "infinity" with a finite ruler. Math as a nomenclature is finite. It is bound to it's rule. it is a tool that serves a purpose. But we shouldn't be surprised when a finite nomenclature discovers the world it observes is also finite. Right? This is not philosophy or magic thinking. It is logic. A finite ruler cannot measure an infinite space. But my use of the word infinity is misleading. What i am more interested in is eternity. But there is lots to be said about infinity and math and you definitely are avoiding much of the history of infinity in math. It's common thing to do. Narrow in on some ideas to communicate something specific, valid and logical. Nothing in the finite world can be entirely inclusive. That is how applied knowledge gets jobs done. By ignoring a lot of other stuff. en.wikipedia.org...

I see people here giving you a hard time. But have considered the posts you are active in are not really math and science related? You have come to a post on enlightenment to share scientific finite ideas. I'm sure you have more productive conversations in math and science related forums. Personally I'm glad you inject your scorn for philosophy and spirituality.. that scorn is a real as any other idea or expression.. Not very!

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
reply to post by rwfresh

 

Hmmm... that was definitely interesting. Care to write more about it?

Thanks!

Just this.. don't believe me hahahaha. I cannot communicate Truth.

Originally posted by jiggerj

You cannot think like a worm, or a god.

Even worms have psychic ability. They did tests. So do people. Psychic ability is a feature of life.

Even you. You are psychic. Therefore, you have the potential to extend your mind into a worm and temporarily become a worm.

Of course, you don't believe in psychic ability. People who don't believe in psychic ability score very poorly on ESP tests. They consistently score below chance expectation.

With people who do believe in psi, it's the other way around. They score above chance. Time after time, scoring patterns emerge. They call it the sheep-goat effect. Goats are disbelievers, and their disbelief in ESP forces their mind to keep their awareness of their own psychic ability below the threshold of conscious awareness.

As you believe you are, you are. If you believe you're small, then you're small. Small minded.

Gertrude made one of the most important discoveries ever in parapsychology, one with strong spiritual implications and one which I think none of the spiritual traditions knows about, for while it's something that can happen in everyday life, it's pretty much unobservable except under laboratory conditions. She gave many classes of students ESP tests, guessing at concealed cards, but, before giving or scoring the tests, she had students fill out questionnaires that asked, among other things, whether they believed in ESP.

When she analyzed the results separately for the believers – the "sheep" – and the non-believers – the "goats" – she found a small, but significant difference. The sheep got more right than you would expect by chance guessing, they were occasionally using ESP. The goats, on the other hand, got significantly fewer right than you would expect by chance.

Think of it this way. If you were asked to guess red or black with ordinary playing cards, no feedback until you'd done the whole deck, you would average about 50% correct by chance. If you got 100% correct, you don't need statistics to know that would be astounding. But if you got 0%? Just as astounding!

The sheep thought they could do it, they got "good" scores, they were happy. The goats knew there was no ESP, nothing to get, they got poor scores, they were happy, that "proved" their belief. These were not people who were sophisticated enough about statistics to know that scoring below chance could be significant….

Many other experimenters replicated this effect over the years.

The only way I've ever been able to understand it is to think that the goats occasionally used ESP, but on an unconscious level, to know what the next card was and then their unconscious, acting in the service of their conscious belief system, influenced them to call anything but the correct one. The goats used a "miracle" to support their belief that there were no such things as miracles….

Talk about living in samsara, in a state of illusion!

-Charles Tart

reply to post by rwfresh


Can you say 'I am not'? Are you aware that you are? You know you are! Are you seeing? Are you aware that you are seeing? What is it that is seeing? Can you see?
The real reality is what is aware of this seeing. Awareness sees the seeing.
The only thing we know for sure is that there is seeing, knowing - and that is known. What knows that we can't say in words but if we return to source bliss and contentment is experienced.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by rwfresh

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by bowtomonkey
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Embrace the fact that 'human thought' is a byproduct of the engine called the brain.

Not at all true.

Interesting how the people who know the least are the first to tell everyone what is truth.

Then enlighten us on how thought can manifest itself. We'd really love to know.

How does a mirage manifest itself? It doesn't. It's an illusion. And so is thought.

A mirage? As in the mind-machine forming something that isn't there? Would a mirage exist if there were no brains? I don't think so.

You are right. There would be no human perceived illusion without a brain. And a mirage and what you call thought are both illusory. The brain is an illusion machine. That is why using thought to understand the brain is pointless. The brain produces thought so stop thinking you are controlling your thought about your brain, your brain is doing it. And it is #ed up.

You are not wrong to associate your entire self to your physical brain. You are right. You specifically are your brain. I believe you.

NOONE can ever, ever, ever think to know they have any idea of the meaning of life, or what enlightened is. Its arrogant and stupid to think that u even have a glimpse of a idea, of how things work. Life is a mystery, then we die and the shizz starts!

Originally posted by rwfresh

I see people here giving you a hard time. But have considered the posts you are active in are not really math and science related? You have come to a post on enlightenment to share scientific finite ideas. I'm sure you have more productive conversations in math and science related forums. Personally I'm glad you inject your scorn for philosophy and spirituality.. that scorn is a real as any other idea or expression.. Not very!

edit on 21-6-2012 by rwfresh because: quotes yo

Wait a second. Philosophy is the root of Math and Science. Without philosophy, they wouldn't exist.

Don't mistaken the fact that because he doesn't fall into the typical romantic idealism, or that he isn't arrogant enough to completely disregard reality in favour of some ideal, as being non-philosophical. On the contrary, he is being more philosophical than most of the people in this forum.

People who preach and are seduced by the idea of enlightenment, the idea that someone can become free of ignorance and suffering, are no more philosophical than the priests of the middle ages promising rewards in the afterlife.

Truth is: no one has ever achieved enlightenment. And striving for an unattainable goal in the face of evidence that is directly contradictory to their doctrines is un-philosophical. Philosophy isn't trying to astral project, reach enlightenment, go to heaven, become spiritual, move things with the mind, walk through walls etc. That is religion and idealism, the anti-thesis of wisdom.

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy

In response to your post about oneness and awareness, here is the way i see it.
Awareness never goes even in deep sleep, in fact deep sleep is pure awareness or the absolute, it is your true nature where no 'things' appear, you are not aware that you are but you still are but just as awareness. This nothingnesss, this void of all 'things' state is what all humans love, there are no appearances seen or known as far as we are aware. The neti neti (not that, not that) refers to the realization that your true nature is deep sleep which is the state of pure awareness which is void of all things, so when ever someone calls you a name or you get lost in delusion and call yourself a name there is a remembering 'not that, not that'.

When images start appearing either as what we call dream state or as waking state, this is concsiousness, I can say I am because i can see 'apparent other'. I am conscious of what appears to be other, there appears to be duality whereas when in deep sleep there is no duality, no anything. The appearance cannot appear without the seeing of it, they cannot be separated, it is one. You and it is one.

This is an amazing contemptation by Rupert Spira
I Never Sleep
youtu.be...

You are peace.

reply to post by Johnkie


Why not. Why cant we know the meaning of life? We does that have to be a negativity?

Those who have near death experiences say they saw the meaning of life and what they saw was the same things that those who have enlightenment.

There is meaning to life. Life is precious. There is a grand scheme to this all, an afterlife, a God(infinte absolute Beingness) and enlightenment is accessible and not as hard or impossible as the mind makes it out to be

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by rwfresh

 

Can you say 'I am not'? Are you aware that you are? You know you are! Are you seeing? Are you aware that you are seeing? What is it that is seeing? Can you see?
The real reality is what is aware of this seeing. Awareness sees the seeing.
The only thing we know for sure is that there is seeing, knowing - and that is known. What knows that we can't say in words but if we return to source bliss and contentment is experienced.

Time does not exist in Reality. Right? It is an illusion. So if my experience of Reality is within the context of time what Reality am i experiencing? If i meditate, or smoke '___' etc. etc. and experience "eternity" for a moment.. what have i experienced? Reality IN an illusion is just an illusion. Not actual Reality.

I acknowledge that illusion does not exist in Reality. I acknowledge that what i experience is not eternity. It is within Time. Therefore my experience is illusory. And if there is a self that is eternal and true, the only way i can/have experience it is within the context of time. Can eternity be experienced or communicated within Time? Honestly.. no.

I am not speaking from Eternity. I am speaking and experiencing self within the context of Time. So that which is experiencing is illusion. I can't settle with associating what is not real with what is actually Real for the sake of my invested delusion. Just speaking personally. There is no benefit for me to tell myself that what i have glimpsed is eternal and one day i will have been there for eternity. What is Real is full, complete, perfect, already, always and forever. I am not evolving or becoming that. It's not possible.

I am not motivated by bliss and contentment. Those things happen naturally in my life. Along with fear, discomfort and pain. All of them illusory in the context of Reality. I am motivated by Truth. I don't have it, i don't communicate it, i am not it. Even my acknowledgement of it is illusory. But the truest experience I've had is acknowledging Reality is actual and real and everything else, including the acknowledger.. is delusional/illusion.

Just speaking for myself.

reply to post by Theophorus


Enlightenment in a nutshell is the story of the blind men and the elephant. There was no snake, there was no tree, there was no rope; there was only the elephant.

Once there is a realization that there are no metaphoric snakes, trees, or ropes, that there is only "one" that we are all part of, each connected to the next to create the whole; then we begin to begin to understand enlightenment.