China will Decimate the US Naval Fleet

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Really, what age are you? because you come across as a teenager, you do know that?

If you do not understand the relevance of the Battle of the Imjin you should keep quiet. Not every one needs all the dots joined up for them...

Every time you post all you do is bang on about this tech or that, any ADULT knows that is foolish talk.
FACT is you know very little to nothing about any of it, same as the rest of us.

'The J20 is a dog' have you flown it so as to make that comment? NO, so more BS made up comments. And BTW the MIG-25 was not a stealth plane it was an interceptor so how can you even compare these? different classes and GENERATION of planes.

I almost choked laughing when you said you had a Team of Stasi following you in East Berlin, you really think people here believe you?
You are not that old, you talk about nukes as if they are usable weapons and about military tech like you are playing top trumps, this is how teenage boys talk, so unless you have some sort of mental disability it is obvious you are in this age group.

You should really sign off your posts as 'Walter Mitty' it would be more accurate

reply to post by biggilo

As I said earlier...the CHILD CRIES WHEN THINGS DO NOT GO HIS WAY!

I am most likely older than you by quite some time. Here is a quick question for you to see if you are old enough to remember...or if you were around...what two countries was NIXON running a Covert War with as the NVC were avoiding the use of the HO CHI MINH TRAIL and what were the names of the two campaigns and what are of N.Vietnam did they strike when the N.Vietnamese left the peace talks. You have 5 minutes..go!
Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity

Well...more than 5 minutes went by...perhaps 10. Still no answer?
Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


I don't pretend to know much or care about the Vietnam war, it is not on our curriculum over here nor is it something I show much interest in. So, quite why this is somehow going to prove my age I don't know.

You are just annoyed because people see through your lies.

You are the Walter Mitty here, not me, 'followed by a team of Stasi', lol

reply to post by SplitInfinity

WOW! Getting over the 20 Minute mark and still no response to two EASY QUESTIONS?

I guess the little Boy CRIED WOLF one time too many!

Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

WOW! Getting over the 20 Minute mark and still no response to two EASY QUESTIONS?

I guess the little Boy CRIED WOLF one time too many!

Split Infinity

Explain, what has the Vietnam War got to do with:

A: This discussion

and

B: Your lies

Please explain

reply to post by biggilo

I asked two easy questions of you that show me since you could not answer...that you are the BABY here and I am the Old Man.

I could not have done more to discredit you that your own lack of knowledge.

If you don't know even these two questions...you have NO BUSINESS DISCUSSING WAR!

Go back to school or read a book but don't comment on things you have no knowledge of...which seems just about everything. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Your really are a small minded idiot, aren't you?

I am a British citizen, we don't give a damn about the Vietnam War over here.

Just because you are learning about it in school this week doesn't mean anything and it is irrelevant to this discussion.

You are just annoyed because I see through your fantasies and lies.

"Pulling a bit of a bait and switch aren't you? Speaking of nonsense, what happened to your claim of China's superior space program? Or the J20 program becoming operational before the F-35?"

Bait and switch? You are the one who is baitin.
US with the end of the space shuttle is not putting men in space, China is. I chose not to discuss space issues only because I wanted to focus on military.

JSF is not "operational". Not anywhere close. J20 will be combat ready before JSF. There is no longer any promised date by Lockheed as to when JSF will be combat ready. 10 million lines of on board software code, 24 million lines total, when will JSF be ready? F22 uses 1 million lines of code, and that seems to be too much for Lockheed.

You must work for Lockheed. You blather on about supercruise. The link I provided to the J-20 in Wikipedia says the J-20 can supercruise, the JSF cannot. And you waste a lot of bandwidth arguing about it.



"There are amateur blogs all over the internet both pro and con. Try reading what the real world pilots, engineers and mechanics write on reputable websites where posters credentials are vetted and the fanboy nonsense gets weeded out like the F-16.net Forum"

You are saying the F16.net forum is for pros, and Aviation Week is for amateurs? You are delusional beyond belief.



"No, I am very familiar with what little information is publicly available regarding the J20 and did not say the prototype had not flown. I said that at this juncture the J20 is a prototype with unknown performance because China is having serious engineering problems developing an engine much less developing a flight tested, operational production airframe by 2018."

That is not what you said.


"You are demonstrating that you are short on facts and full of flawed opinion. The F-35A's first supersonic flight was in 2008 while both the F-35B and C made their first supersonic test flights last year.

60 mistakes to be reworked at great expense or scrapped in the Nevada desert?Seriously?


Again, your hyperbole is not borne out by the facts.

Wrong. The reality is that for the third straight year flight tests are ahead of schedule, the cost to build each plane is falling fast, and international partners are so enthused that new customers are getting in line for the F-35 on a regular basis (South Korea will be next). So how come you don’t know any of this? The reason you don’t know it is that political appointees have decided they can score points with Congress by attacking their own program, and national media always lead with the most sensational information."

You must work for Lockheed or a supplier. Sorry, you will be looking for work when JSF is cancelled. Everything your wrote is dog poop. No JSF currently built can be used for combat. Every last one is a "mistake jet". The last time I saw, the JSF was still restricted to subsonic operation. International partners are enthused? Italy and others will reduce numbers - Italy already has - as this program fails. Canada and Holland will be the next to pull the plug.
The cost to build each is falling fast? more rubbish. This year, it was around $180 million for the Air Force version, $230 million for the Navy version, and $300 million for the Marine Corp version.

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Asking that question(s) does not prove your age. It just proves you have A. Been taught about the Vietnam war in school or (more likely) B. Can use Wikipedia.

If you were truly an adult you wouldn't feel the need to degrade yourself in an attempt to prove your age to some people you don't know. Keep trying though, kiddo. Maybe someone will believe you or give two flying ducks. (Not my usual choice of words but we have to be careful around minors don't we.)

So if you really want to prove your age you have exactly 3 minutes and 47 seconds from when this reply has been posted. (As per; your logic) GO!

chinas first move would be to block Indonesian port routes to japan cutting off large oil supplies and manipulate the Japanese economy for gain.

Originally posted by DevilJonah
Then why is the US repsositioning forces focused on the Pacific?

The US has repositioned its naval forces countless times throughout its history, very rarely does it result in war. Besides, the 60% of our Navy we're sending to that area is not enough for a conflict with China.

Originally posted by Trajan

The US needs a war with China if it wants to remain the worlds Superpower.

Stopped reading there. China's rising economy in no way threatens the US's status as a superpower. There can be multiple super powers (and throughout history, there mostly were).

Besides, economic strength isn't even the most important factor in being a super power. The Soviet Union was a super power for quite awhile and their economy was half that of the US's.

reply to post by Speakeasy1981


Correct, superpowers have to have a cultural aspect, and I don't see anyone lining up to watch Chinese movies or really partake in anything culturally Chinese that isn't found at walmart.

Also China's economic power has a million problems that need to be dealt with. For now, they are a long way from being a "superpower" and could very well become regionally divided.

All of this none sense is nothing more than geopolitical arm flexing, which happens all the bloody time.

reply to post by Speakeasy1981


But let's be honest, why would the US want there to be more superpowers if they could position themselves to be the only superpower.

reply to post by DevilJonah


They don't but some things cannot be stopped without great loss.

Example- British Empire, emerging US with a rapidly growing economy. Lord Palmerston noted in the 1800's the the rise of the US could threaten British supremacy. His plan as Prime Minister was to intervene in the American Civil War, something the Confederate states were hoping for, as well as French intervention. However Lincoln stopped this by making the war about "slavery" no European power could intervene on a side there after because slavery was already illegal in Europe. The British public also had no stomach for more war.

So, the cost was to great to enter, and we know what happened after that.

Similar scenario American superpower, emerging China

The US knows that if they can stop China from gaining the South China Sea they will contain China. So this is all the hooplah about missiles ect from China. The cost to the US would be China screwing the world economy, and sinking a carrier. The cost is to high, what the US is probably hoping for is a civil war or massive uprising against the Communist Party, who is faltering a bit at the moment, then the US can make the case for "aid" or "intervention" but that probably won't happen.

This is part of the reason China is active in Europe, they don't want the Europeans picking up the slack if the US cuts its budget.

Most likely scenario, the US contains China for some time, Chinese defense gets stronger, US cant afford it, US pulls out. World is more regional, war breaks out, world war follows a limited nuclear exchange occurs. The world economy is screwed, starvation runs rampant. The war is halted, the nation state is destroyed, the population is traumatized world gov comes in and things are pretty much the same as before except the living standard of the first world goes down the toilet.

Originally posted by DevilJonah
reply to post by Speakeasy1981

 

But let's be honest, why would the US want there to be more superpowers if they could position themselves to be the only superpower.

Refer to one of my previous posts. "US remaining a superpower by wiping out China" is not an option on the table. It's literally an impossible scenario. Think of it this way: the intertwining of the two country's economies is pretty much an (intentional, some may say) economic Mutually Assured Destruction.

Also, as was mentioned, economy is not a giant factor in super power status. The EU current has a larger economy than the US, but the EU is not a superpower. They lack efficient global power projection, cultural influence, and technological superiority (granted, being a multitude of countries instead of just one also doesn't help)..

reply to post by Speakeasy1981


Having a strong economy is essential for becoming a Superpower. It doesn't have to be the biggest (Soviet Russia's was half of the US but it was still much larger than its European, Asian and African counterparts) but as long as it is a economic and industrial powerhouse it can rise to the top. No nation with a small industry/economy have ever risen to anything more than regional power and even that is used with some other nations industrial strength (Buying cheaper, selling higher).

Look at the US. During the First World War it had a relatively small military but when it entered the war it's industrial size helped it outfit and arm hundreds of thousands of troops in a short time frame. Much like Nazi Germany before WW2.

As I said, the US needs to crush China's growing power so it can strip them off their resources in reparations.
The US' economy is lagging and starting to decline, China's is growing and its list of customers are growing each day which is then cemented by the Russo-Sino economic pact.

The US will remain a major power for the next two or three decades but it will just fade away as China, India, Pakistan etc. will just get stronger and stronger.


Look at how the economy flourished in the US at the time of WW1 and WW2. Their economies were tiny compared to what it had grown to after the war and continued to expand up. The US NEEDS another major war if it wants to remain as the sole superpower and get better deals for themselves when trading with other countries.

If China and India emerge at the US' level (Give it about 10 years) then the US economy will suffer from not having that advantage in talks.

It happened to every Superpower since the dawn of time.

Rome is the best example.
Rome had risen to dominance over a millennia and had one of the world's largest military complexes ever witnessed. But when it's economy shrunk (It was estimated at $200b at its peak) to just over $2b it's military system collapsed and was left floundering against the tide of 'Barbarians' who were just starting to rise.

They ended up devaluing their own currency and had to hand off huge chunks of land to keep the Tribes appeased.

If it had kick started its economy with more wars (Not expansion wars but wars to plunder and just get jobs going) it could have lasted a few decades longer. It could have re positioned its military strength and lasted a century. But it couldn't afford to bring the soldiers out of Britain and feed them so it left them there while it was being ravaged by the the Germanic tribes and Eastern tribes.

reply to post by Trajan


I certainly won't argue that economy isn't a factor when it comes to being a superpower, but I am arguing that it means very little by itself. There have been larger economies than the US that weren't classified as superpowers, and smaller economies that were. Economy is one of many factors when it comes to being a superpower, and yet it's the only one considered in this thread.

Yes, eventually China will have a larger economy than the US, no one is doubting that. But that doesn't mean they'll be a superpower, or a threat to the US's status as a superpower. China completely lacks global force projection (AKA, not being able to enforce anything, ever) and will for the foreseeable future. China lacks cultural influence (AKA, they're not yet considered "cool"), which sounds shallow but is an incredibly important factor. Cultural influence promotes likability and likability leads to popular support. China lacks any sort of technological edge, as they suffer worst "brain drain" of any country on the planet. Outside of a few good ideas here and there, they're relegated to trying to backwards engineer whatever technology they can get their hands on, which is usually not bleeding edge stuff. Last but not least, China has tons of internal issues that it enjoys sweeping under the carpet, but they're eventually going to have to deal with as they grow as a country and the world shines a spotlight on them. Rampant poverty, corrupt government, one child policy, unacceptable censorship, and becoming less and less attractive to foreign businesses are all things China is going to have to deal with and the longer they put it off, the more painful it's eventually going to be.

tl;dr Your "US needs to go to war with China to remain a superpower" makes zero sense and has zero historical precedence.

reply to post by Speakeasy1981


China does censor its media but so does the West. All the mainstream media stations misinform the public to drum up support for whatever reason. The only time the media does start to unravel something there is suddenly a huge news break that overshadows it and it gets swept away. Corruption isn't limited to China, every nation on Earth has corrupted officials and governments. It's much easier to find a crooked official than it is to find a clean, straight one. That can be said the world over.

Also, the US DOES need a war with China to boost its ailing economy. Which I explained in my previous post and used the Roman Empire as an example. If you are going to have a conversation with someone atleast have the decency to read the post in full. Otherwise you are handing the game to the person on the other team who can slam you a thousand different ways. Ignorance is bliss but in debate it will be your downfall.