This is a Sexist Thread! (Men's Rights)

Originally posted by Furbs
This is yet another unsupported list of anecdotes. You have compiled the list, why not cite it with information to back up what you are saying?

While I can't speak for the person you're quoting, people who give me the credible sources troll, generally get ignored. The BS that you've presumably learned at university, ain't going to cut it here, son.

Civilian COINTELPRO: Pseudo-rationalism, or the Wikipedia School of Rhetoric

Originally posted by tw0330

How about the right to a fair trial?

As you can see, the thread has seriously gone down the drain, with a lot of women and feminist advocates.

The problem faced, is just as I pointed out originally ... feminists, in general, are just a faction of fascism. That turned a legitimate battle on human rights, into rights exclusively for women. In some cases, it is legitimate ... but it went beyond good measure. They demand you acknowledge their rights, but if you request a hearing about your rights ... their responce is "pictures or it didn't happen". And basically there is nothing you can do about it, because ... it's basically our caveman ability here.

We didn't venture into human rights, because we were such good people ... but basically our ability to earn a living, was diminished and it required us to demand "communism", or "equal spread of wealth". Because we can't all be on top, and facing this issue the second best alternative is everyone having something.

However, this isn't the womans inate nature.

You have to understand people's inate nature here. Of course, there are those that tell you that there is no such thing as inate behaviour ... but that's not quite true, is it. Dogs and cats, do have inate behaviour ... and so do we. Men fend, or hunt ... and since some prey (modern world) is hard to fetch, it must be done in packs. This is the basic idea, behind communism ... but a woman, her "love" is the feeling of security. Security she needs for her "breast feeding children". So she will always seek out the best "hunter", in another word ... her ideology is capitalism. Which is why "women love daimonds".

This is why, women turned the fight about human rights, into an exclusive right for women. Because it's not a question about rights, to a woman, it's a question about getting ahead. And, more to the point ... it isn't a conscious thought either.

But, subconsciously ... that is also our motive ...

That said, I'd like to address some of the OP's statements directly ....

Right to chose

The right to chose, is the right to abstain from sex. Once the sexual act is done, it's not a question about choice ... it's a question about responsibility. Even if we have majority of women, wanting to abandon their responsibilities ... I do not agree, that we men should abandon ours. If you want a child, find the woman who wants to give you ... ignore the rest.


University and education

Any school, wether a University or other ... is for idiots, not for people with intellect. It's the society's way of instructing monkeys how to do rutine jobs. It's a bit more complicated than that, but you should get the basic idea ... instead of demanding to be a part of the education system, that is made for women ... attend first school, leave the monkey business to the monkeys.


Jury, Justice system bias

You shouldn't get away with any crime. Again, it's not a question about the judge feeling sorry for women and he should feel sorry for men too. Basically, what you are saying here is that the judge assumes that most women are just nuts, and it's not really a crime ... but a nutjob case. He feels sorry for them ... maybe he's right, maybe it's just an emotional issue ... not a conscious thought issue for women.

But you ... a man, if you can do the crime ... you can do the time. No buts.


Domestic violence

Psychological damage is hard to prove ... that is why it's such good torture method. According the United Nations, torture is measured on the psychological impact ... not the physical impact.

Torture is forbidden ... but, "pictures or it didn't happen".

Men use their strength, and this strength is easily measurable and easily proven. So this is not a case, of men being discriminated because they are men, but because the evidence gathering is much easier when a man is involved.


Child violence

This is the only legit statement, in my opinion. Women use psychological "torture", to obtain their will ... even against their children.

Here, the system needs to do more research ... agreed.



Wealth

It's all about the caveman, and women want security ... the feeling of security. And their inate emotions, is that this comes from having enough to eat and drink. Their fear are inate, not conscious thoughts ...

You want communism, basically ... women want all the wealth, for themselves ... they're hamsters.

It's both a positive, and a negative thing ... but it's not a question of rights. But your arguement is the heart of the inate difference between men and women.

You want to share the wealth, you want to "hunt in a pack", because you are unable to gether enough on your own. The woman, wants to move into the "big hunters" cabin. She wants to be on top, because that's where she feels security. That's why you have so many "rich" guys swarming with beautiful girls around them, and why you have Hefner always surrounded with beautiful women. And why all the rest of us, hate the "rich" guys and want take his wealth away ...

It's not a "conscious" bad attitude, thing ... it's inate.

there is a lot of male bashing in the mainstream media.

Go to any hallmark store and take a look at all the cards basically bashing men, fathers, anything male. it's around so much that we are basically desensitized to it and don't notice it anymore. But it's rampant.

reply to post by Furbs


What rights...

In Canada (Canadian Bill of Rights):

1. It is hereby recognized and declared that in Canada there have existed and shall continue to exist without discrimination by reason of race, national origin, colour, religion or sex, the following human rights and fundamental freedoms, namely,
(a) the right of the individual to life, liberty, security of the person and enjoyment of property, and the right not to be deprived thereof except by due process of law;
(b) the right of the individual to equality before the law and the protection of the law;

If you have any questions about that specific right being violated, I encourage you to try this experiment:

Take a man and woman to a public setting...like a park. Have the woman smack (assault) the man. Have the man smack (assault) the woman.

You can contemplate your right to equality while he sits in jail and she is free.

(Don`t actually try this without written consent forms and proper notification of a 'public test' received and approved by your local authorities. You can be charged with disturbing the peace for doing this.)

I feel compelled to join this discussion. I am 28 years old, I've had three sexual partners, two of which I "dated" and one which I knew for multiple years as a family friend, and was a one night thing (which I hadn't done before, and won't do again, not because anything bad happened, its just how I am). I have a very difficult time expressing my feelings with regards to the man/woman relationship.

Obviously I'm not completely devoid of being able to connect with a women, its that I feel almost ashamed about my baser instincts in regards to women and it is a direct result of a feeling of being guilty by association (men are pigs, therefore all men are pigs). I feel as if I have to defend myself in certain situations and it makes me terribly uncomfortable. So much so that I haven't attempted a relationship for the better part of four years now, despite the fact that the only thing I really care about in this life right now is finding someone special I can share the rest of my time on this planet with. I've made attempts and been shot down, just like everyone else, but each time, I couldn't get over this overwhelming feeling of seeming creepy just because I'm opening myself up a bit, a feeling as if sex was the only thing I was interested in. I am very much a sexual creature, and know that, to a degree, it is a driving force in my life. It is not the only thing about me though and I know that, but it is harder to overcome this then just saying so.

My first girlfriend broke up with me based on a lie I fully admitted to. A couple of years prior to us dating, she was going out with a friend of mine. We stayed connected after they had broken up, but during that time I told my group of friends that I hooked up with some random women at a bar one night. At the time, I said as much because I felt insecure with the fact that women just really weren't interested in me on any level. After a couple of times we got intimate, an "issue" arose... or didn't if any catch my meaning. She had attributed this to me possibly having some communicable disease and she began to get worried for herself. I then admitted to my insecure farce. She deemed that lie as grounds for breaking up, which threw me off a little bit (your upset because I really didn't sleep with a random women??) After explaining myself, she said something along the lines of ok fine I'l give you one more chance, to which I said "I don't want to "convince" you to want to be with me, I WANT you to want to be with me, and that was that, we haven't spoken since.

Sorry for this being long winded but it is difficult for some men (I am 5'10" 265lbs and by most estimations come off as a man's man, even though I know I am not, I consider myself a fat guy and have all the insecurities that come with that as well) to let their guards down and really expose the "feminine" side that women can recognize on a deeper level. I, and I'm sure many, have a lot of insecurities regarding this subject, and therefore act a certain way which is really not indicative of the person they really are. Is this the fault of women? Nope, not at all. It is the man/woman paradigm that has existed for as long as humans have had consciousness. Men and Women embody entirely different aspects of humanity, and anywhere there is fundamental difference, segregation will occur, for better or worse.

Whoever said the "alpha" males are sociopaths, your not wrong. That is their insecurities putting up a defensive wall of aggression and subjugation. It really all boils down to, in my estimation at least, the psychology of the individual.

I AM ABSOLUTELY BLOWN AWAY BY THIS THREAD : lol:


I do not recognise in any of the posts, ANY women i know!! Like those being lambasted

on this thread as being...assaulters - wicked - evil - childbeaters - connivers - two timing -

lazy - demanding - psychological torturers - and many other vices i may have missed out


By the same token


I do not recognise on this thread ANY of the men i know these...saintly - badly done to -

tireless - generous - beaten up - psychologically tortured - down trodden - paragons of

virtue


Reality for BOTH sexes lies somewhere in the middle and from time to time they BOTH

recieve a raw deal from life...No one ever said life was fair!

All we can aim for in society is that every one starts off on a level playing field and that

any judgements and punishments fit the situation FAIRLY if not equally.

Al Bundy and his group NO MA'AM(National Organization of Men Against Amazonian Masterhood) would approve of this thread.

All I see here is gender polarization. Men and women playing a constant tug-of-war to see which gender is better. Its childish and counter-productive. I pray for the day we all evolve into asexual cyborgs or virtual beings with no genitals and stop focusing so much on our insignificant differences and work towards a brighter future.

reply to post by TheReclaimer


What you see is a bunch of men who wish for a fair system and a bunch of women who refuse to support this because they fear they would lose the advantage they have gained in those areas over men.


Many women are supporting this issue, but sadly far more seem to think that because we too want things fare, that it will cause women to lose what they have fought for.

Fact is most men on here would stand and fight with the women in their cause. This was never meant to be a female vs male thing, but it became that way when the women came in here all "woman powerish" so to speak.

I was at work about a week ago and there was a group of 5 homeless people hanging out behind a building I was working on. I watched this big fat girl beat up everyone in the group (including a girl in a wheelchair) for at least an hour before the cops finally showed up. Well upon their (the cops) arrival, the big girl had this guy by the collar and she was just whaling away on him. The guy obviously didn't realize the cops just pulled up, so in the middle of taking his beating he made the mistake of hitting her back... 1 single slap.

The cops approached the guy with their guns drawn and ordered him to lay face first on the hot azz pavement with his hands behind his back. The big nasty fat girl got to sit on a bucket. After I went over there and raised holy hell with the cops, they took the cuffs off the guy and let him go, and they arrested the fat girl.

I wonder how that would've turned out if I had just kept my mouth shut.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I am a bit shocked by the whole hatred of the alpha male... so I just made a thread instead

This is coming from a woman that has experienced hatred from men. I refuse to go into details about my youth but trust me, men have never been kind to me. I married a monster of a man....yes, my stupidity and inability to think that mankind was evil; stupid me. He had a criminal record, he abused me on levels that you men who post could NEVER understand! The courts told me that it didn't matter, that I was the loser who chose to work while my ex stayed home. I was at fault!!!! I was ordered to go home and let my husband do whatever he wanted to me and IF I called for help then I would be held in contempt of court and I would never see my children again. I worked in law enforcement at that time. I CHOOSE not to tell you what happened that night but trust me when I say that it wasn't pretty. 15 years in law enforcement and I will tell you that it is a man's world and that I had to go through much counseling to begin to heal the wounds done by MEN!!!!! Now I will tell you that I was considering a life without the man but I happened to meet a man that is sooooooooo above you men whom are posting. He is pure, good and the love that I feel for him is beyond anything that I have ever felt. He is better than you nutcases who assume that women are all evil, he is better than me, he makes me want to be a better person. He is my very breath. You so called "men" out there.....you would be lucky to even be a quarter of what he is.

Originally posted by FreeFromTheHerd

Originally posted by Furbs
There are many schools offering gender studies with programs being taught which educate people on the entire spectrum of gender, not merely the bifurcated illusions put forth in this thread.

Interesting that you bring up the notion of "taking some classes".

A vast majority of schools offer Women's Studies classes. I challenge you to find more than 5 that offer Men's Studies.

I will be waiting for the results of your search.

Akamai University

Hobart and William Smith Colleges

University of Winnepeg

Kennesaw State Univeristy/ GWST 3080 Masculinity Studies

Valdosta State University / WGST 4000 Masculinity Studies

California State University -San Bernardino GSS 101 - Intro Masculinity Studies


You asked for 5, here are 6. I have also listed the class numbers for the ones that offered them.

Originally posted by peck420
reply to post by Furbs

 

What rights...

In Canada (Canadian Bill of Rights):

1. It is hereby recognized and declared that in Canada there have existed and shall continue to exist without discrimination by reason of race, national origin, colour, religion or sex, the following human rights and fundamental freedoms, namely,
(a) the right of the individual to life, liberty, security of the person and enjoyment of property, and the right not to be deprived thereof except by due process of law;
(b) the right of the individual to equality before the law and the protection of the law;

If you have any questions about that specific right being violated, I encourage you to try this experiment:

Take a man and woman to a public setting...like a park. Have the woman smack (assault) the man. Have the man smack (assault) the woman.

You can contemplate your right to equality while he sits in jail and she is free.

(Don`t actually try this without written consent forms and proper notification of a 'public test' received and approved by your local authorities. You can be charged with disturbing the peace for doing this.)

How about instead of encouraging someone to break the law (which is frowned on here at ATS) you cite some statistics to back up your claim of unfair treatment. If it is as widespread and systematic as you suggest, you should not have that much of a problem.

Originally posted by tw0330
reply to post by TheReclaimer

 

What you see is a bunch of men who wish for a fair system and a bunch of women who refuse to support this because they fear they would lose the advantage they have gained in those areas over men.


Many women are supporting this issue, but sadly far more seem to think that because we too want things fare, that it will cause women to lose what they have fought for.

Fact is most men on here would stand and fight with the women in their cause. This was never meant to be a female vs male thing, but it became that way when the women came in here all "woman powerish" so to speak.

There is a way to promote gender equality without the destructive accusations and ignorance you showed in your OP which caused the false dichotomy and anti-feminist rhetoric to spread through your thread.

You should check out NOMAS

www.nomas.org...

reply to post by Furbs

There is a way to promote gender equality without the destructive accusations and ignorance you showed in your OP which caused the false dichotomy and anti-feminist rhetoric to spread through your thread.

I think you are being unfair to the Op. His op included facts, and more than once in this thread he has stated that he would fight for equal rights for women if he felt issues were unfair.

There was nothing destructive or accusing about his op , merely stating facts.

Now you are showing your ignorance.

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
reply to post by Furbs

 

There is a way to promote gender equality without the destructive accusations and ignorance you showed in your OP which caused the false dichotomy and anti-feminist rhetoric to spread through your thread.

I think you are being unfair to the Op. His op included facts, and more than once in this thread he has stated that he would fight for equal rights for women if he felt issues were unfair.

There was nothing destructive or accusing about his op , merely stating facts.

Now you are showing your ignorance.

From the OP

Men's Rights and Social Sexism against men.

He is making the accusation of sexism in the OP, he then cobbles together a list of gathered statistics which do not take into account a multitude of other factors for their existence, completely overlooking correlation not implicitly implying causation, meaning that just because a few things happen a certain way, one cannot immediately jump to the first conclusion one makes about the subject.

The idea that he is not anti-feminist is the only reason I haven't written him completely. I think he is serious about wanting gender equality, but he is uneducated as to the root causes for such inequity, which is why I have suggested further reading.

reply to post by Furbs


My list was the combination of research, real life experiences and having conversations with various men and women on the topic. It is true some of it is anecdotal evidence, but sometimes that's the best evidence to go by. You will notice that many of the "unequal rights" and "oppressions" that women were experiencing throughout history were also based on anecdotal, not strictly factual, evidence besides the obvious ones like the right to vote or own property.

reply to post by tw0330


You know, I still feel terrible about it. I'm a mom too, so I can only imagine what it would be like to lose my kids but, here's the thing : I would never give anyone a reason to need to take them from me. They are my first priority in absolutely everything that I do, every I decision I make I consider them first and foremost. For her own reasons, my sister was incapable of doing that, and I began to see the effect it was having on her kids. I did what I had to do to make sure they were protected, loved, and taken care of. My sister may hate me but at least I can lay my head down at night knowing that they are safe. I suppose it completely unrealistic of me but, I would like to think that someday she'll be able to see that what I did, I did because I loved her and her children enough to do something incredibly difficult.

We learn as children that our mothers are the ones who nurture us, and our fathers are the disciplinarians, so I think society finds it easier to put the children with their mothers...after all, our mothers are the ones that love and support us, at least that's what we're to believe. Unfortunately, that's not always the case and I think that we really need to consider that in all custody cases so that we can do what's right for the children...not just what makes us feel better.

reply to post by HEATHERTHOMSON911


I don't think anyone here was saying that women are evil. I'm really sorry for what you had to go through, but, you can't project that onto men who had nothing to do with the situation you were in.

I definitely can see sexism first hand in the workplace every day and it makes me want to puke. Women consistently get a free pass from any manual labor, yet want to be in the same positions that men are. I find myself constantly having to pick up the slack of women where I work. Oh you can't lift? I can't have you in this position, period. It's pathetic that our society gives free passes for weak an unable all while the strong and able give them piggy back rides until they are buried in the sand. I just want simple logic here. I'm not saying women should all be receptionists and secretaries, but they should do things toward their strengths. The natural order of things is messed up and needs to be realigned. The only thing that would change this would be if all hell broke loose and it was survival of the fittest. I guess I understand the concept of the strong taking care of the weak, but I didn't ask for equal rights, women did. If women truly had it equal things would be very different. I want this job I can't do as good as you, oh and open the door for me on the way in as well. It's all bull. Have your cake and eat it too. Feels good to gripe on here because out there you can't speak it like this. Oh and I can't even write any of them up or threaten their jobs. In a heart beat id be fired for harassment or some bs they made up. The more I type the more angry I get. Done.