Greece braces for 'final blow" to it's markets

reply to post by drphilxr

The workers and the pensioners have no way to avoid taxes. Their taxes are deducted before they get paid. It's the corrupt civil servants, the lawyers, the press people, the doctors and the corrupt politicians who have made tax evasion a sport. Just today I heard in the news about some people tax evading and stashing away Euros in Swiss accounts. There was doctors and lawyers and they all had about 1 to 1.5 millions stashed away, but there was one salary recipient (trust no worker, but most probably a corrupt civil servant) who had managed to amass 45 million Euros there. Imagine how much money politicians have there; but they are of course untouchable. A former socialist defense minister got jailed in April and awaits trial, but he's just a scapegoat.

reply to post by Dreine


Greece survived Rome and the parthenon still stands. Greece will recover and go on because greeks are a hardy people.

The rest of Europe however, will come tumbling down because Greece is the first dominoe. Word to the wise people in greece, buy as many heirloom seeds as you can find and return to being agrarian, at least you will not starve and you can give Monsanto the middle finger while you survive.

reply to post by WalterRatlos


I really enjoyed your informative posts.

What do you think will happen if the money supply virtually dries up? What percentage of the people will engage in violent protest? How will the government react?

I hear there is already a significant amount of bartering going on. Do you foresee that becoming a widespread reaction from the populace?

Originally posted by drphilxr
reply to post by Dreine

 

I'm glad you brought up this topic. Americans ignore Greece. I can't.

My relatives are in hell. But they also laughed for years about not paying taxes.

We need to slap ourselves awake. We need to pay more taxes - enough more.

Our debt - somehow - isn't as bad. And we have - for now - a federal reserve which

Greece doesn't. Somehow, something tells me - it could still, definitely happen here.

In the same fashion.

we don't have a federal reserve, the federal reserve has us, by the balls.

more taxes is never an answer to a global bankster driven raping of the people and the planet. the answer is getting rid of the banks and the practice of making money from lending and hedging and derivatives and and.. you get the point. i guess reeling in the corporate greed through lobbying and tax loop holes wouldn't hurt either.

i hope Greece gives the EU a big fat middle finger before they go, them and the IMF and the bankster bastards and get's going on making a new life without the parasites they have on their backs.


very fitting after note i suppose, got my 1776th star for this post and that feels extra special since it's this topic.

reply to post by WalterRatlos


It's amazing how the people with money (the rich) are the ones who would logically be providing the goodliest portion of the taxes, yet, somehow, the situation in various countries is being blamed on the poorest.

Lonewolf said it...........take a lesson from Cuba
When the became isolated from help either from east or west......
What did Castro tell them to do?..................
Plant gardens!
They grew food in planter boxes and buckets and pots and on balconies..everywhere there was a place to grow they put something to eat a growin.....
The result was they ate well enough to stay very healthy.......
The need for the western technology is only an illusion.....
Everyone can live well without much of the crap we are told we must have, or must do......
How much money did we piss away drinking industrial wastes in our water ???(Flouridation)
no pun intended....
We actually paind for the priviledge of consuming what was industrial waste from the aluminium process.....flouride for water to make yer teeth strong...yeah riiiight.
The greeks will have a rough year to come, but life will get simpler too....that will be a blessing......
maybe real vaues will again assert themselves amongst the people.....
I believe this could happen....

Originally posted by Extralien
It saddens me to know that people may have their entire power supply cut, possibly across an entire country...

Yet the latest breaking news on the BBC site is about how some 90 year old fart has gone to hospital with a bladder infection and is going to miss the queens jubilee.. Hurry up and pop your clogs and then we can get on with the real news that's real important and worth doing something about instead of propping you up in your hospital bed at tax payers expense..

sponger..

and what's with this damned global laser 'light up' thing.. who is paying for that? What a waste... Not just of money but of manpower and resources when it could all be put to better use elsewhere..

If energy was free and nobody had to work (with an automated society) then I'd say party on dude..

My thoughts are with the people of Greece... and Spain, Portugal, Ireland etc etc...

I'm with you on all your points. I imagine the chaos and discomfort the people would have to endure with the power suddenly being cut. And the laser thing does seem a bit much. Extravagance seems a bit more foolish when their are so many people in need at the moment.

reply to post by Dreine

My mother recounted tales to me of the last days of Nazi control in Germany. She was very young, but told me that just before the war ended, she remembers prices for goods or a meal at a restaurant being written on chalkboards. The prices changed so fast that you might sit down to eat a meal and by the time you were finished the price had doubled.

She remembers her father being paid in the morning with a load of cash that required a wheel barrow to haul it and would only buy one loaf of bread.

Hyperinflation is the death knell of any society, marking the end of the economy as they know it. It takes a long time to get there, but any paper money society that is not backed by gold and silver is useless and doomed to follow suit (eventually).

The weird thing is I saw a news report today on Greece and the shot was of a street and right there in the foreground was a chalkboard with a price written on it. It looked like it had been erased many times.


During the Weimar Republic in Germany:


Who's next?

Only by doing what Iceland did does any country stand a chance against these theiving, murdering, child raping, bastwholios...

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Good luck growing a garden with no water. Unless they all have rain catchers, they won't have a garden and depending on one's locale, the temps might not be so accomodating. I feel for them and citizens of all countries who are victims of the greed of the politicians and elite, who will use them as slaves like they have done time and time again throughout the centuries. It's a sucky world but bone-up, ball-up.....do something to become independant from their ball and chain.

Get off your arse and get independant.... with your heat, water and food.

Originally posted by Dreine
reply to post by AnonymousCitizen

 

Agreed. I've been in Greece in the summer months before... it can be very hot. So even if people were thinking about heading there for some vacation time, no power = no dice. I feel very sorry for those Greek people who are hard working, and I even feel sorry for those who really didn't work hard.

It's not easy to watch the birthplace of democracy die. Not one bit.

Erm..not sure about the "no power=no dice" , do you mean as in electricity if so then there isn't such an issue. On the contrary, one of my uncles handed over one his recent projects that took him several months as part of solar powered farm for a group of hotels on the island of crete. Although several companies who were barely staying afloat have since vanished into the ocean of economic tsunamis thus giving birth to a new breed of companies.

Myself i intend of staying here throughout the summer as the prices have become so dirt cheap it really isnt funny anymore, Accommodations at 4 and 5 star hotels have dropped and extra activities have been added to group and family deals. This country has become something of Disneyland for summer vacations. If your considering a trip into europe then take the time to check out the prices regarding greek islands, like me you probably will say "wtf" it cant be, it must be a typo..!, but sure enough its no typo..!

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN:

We are waaaaaaaay too dependant on "their" system; "their" way of doing things! "Their" way benefits "them" and not US. When will WE wake up and see that??? Protesting is not working. Switching presidents, every 4 years, is not working! The only thing that will work, would have to hit "them" where it hurts. $$$ Cut off the funds, and remind "them" who pays "their" bills.

Here's the sad part of it all....we contribute to their suppression. How? Cell phone, gas guzzling SUV, Cable bill, McDonalds, Walmart, prescription drugs, alcohol, drugs, borrowing, dead end jobs, etc, etc...Need i continue?

Now wait.. I read somewhere that Greece would go first undoubtedly, but what I also read was that this would be the first domino, so to speak.. Who is the second domino?

Lol.. I just seen lonewolf's comment.. I didn't read it from haha. I read it somewhere else.

I love how the 'banksters' keep getting the blame.

They are not the only ones getting six weeks vacation.
They are not the only ones retiring at 50.
They are not the only ones with cradle to grave free med insurance.

When the gov workers found out they were not going to get an increase in pay they worked out a deal to recieve 13 monthly paychecks in a 12 month year.

And yet it's all the 'banksters' fault.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Thanks for that Rock, as you know I have never been a numbers kind of gal but what he said did somehow resonate with me, so either way it is still worthy of taking stock of what we have and to find ways to save for the future uncertainties.

Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by WalterRatlos

 

I really enjoyed your informative posts.

What do you think will happen if the money supply virtually dries up? What percentage of the people will engage in violent protest? How will the government react?

I hear there is already a significant amount of bartering going on. Do you foresee that becoming a widespread reaction from the populace?

Thank you! It's hard to say, but I do have a feeling that if the situation remains unstable after the elections, there will be protests and riots on a daily basis. The percentage of violent protesters has already risen I feel; it used to be only the hard core anarchists, not more than 300 people, but the numbers have swelled since the crisis hit us. As for the government, I'm not sure we will have a government after the elections, which means that the provisional government in place now will continue to rule. Whatever maybe the case, however, it will react as all governments do, bring in the riot police and try to clamp down on violent protests. The thing is, if the riot police themselves are unpaid, they may not want to be overly zealous in doing so.

Personally, I have not witnessed this yet, but I have no doubt that what you have heard is true. There have been also some other things changing, like farmers and farming cooperatives selling their goods from vans at a very cheap price (since there are no middlemen involved). It would not surprise me, if it spread more, but at the same time there are things you need that you cannot gain through bartering and it has also it's limits, like supply and demand. Everybody needs food, so ideally you would barter with farmers who still produce food. But there is too many city dwellers and little farmers. If I judge from my situation, I have no valuables, like jewelry, to barter with. I could spare my tv, but who wants a tv, since all farmers already have one?

Originally posted by Danbones
Only by doing what Iceland did does any country stand a chance against these theiving, murdering, child raping, bastwholios...

True, but Iceland is quite different from Greece or any of the troubled South-European countries. For one, it's a tiny nation of less than 350.000 inhabitants. That is just a middle sized city in European standards. Then, they are practically energy sufficient due to large use of geothermal energy. That is not the case with Greece; we are quite dependent on oil and should we leave the Euro they costs will surge significantly.

Nevertheless, I'm with you. I believe that we should leave the Euro and maybe even the Union, too. Nationalize all banks, refuse to repay any debts and reorganize ourselves to be as self-sufficient as possible. It will mean among other things that we will have to reverse the trend of previous decades where people fled the rural areas and flooded the cities. On a small scale it has already been happening for the past 2 decades, but it will have to pick up pace. Although, one news bit from a few weeks ago does not make me very optimistic about this: in some rural area, the local farming cooperative put up an add for seasonal workers during harvest time. Only about 20 Greeks applied in contrast to over 5000 applications from foreign workers.

reply to post by Mizzijr

My guess is Spain, and if that happens, Portugal, Italy and Ireland. And then France will be in major trouble too; they have already lost their triple A rating. And even mighty Germany will not be unaffected, especially if all those countries including Greece go to disorderly bankruptcy, you know, the one where you just refuse to repay your debts. Germany and France already have a large mount of Greek debt on their hands and the whole bailout and partial default mechanism was designed to make sure that they get at least part of their money back and more importantly to bail out their banks, because if we had refused to repay debts and went the disorderly bankruptcy route right from the start, German and French banks would have had major trouble.

Originally posted by samkent
I love how the 'banksters' keep getting the blame.

Who creates crises? Was it not the bankers in the US that created the initial crisis by gambling on derivatives on the housing market thereby creating a huge housing market bubble?

They are not the only ones getting six weeks vacation.

Are you sure? And for your information: the average Greek worker just gets 21-24 days of vacation per year: source The source is in Greek but if you put the page through google translate you'll get the picture.

They are not the only ones retiring at 50.

Again the average worker retires at 65. There were some categories that indeed retired that early, like the military and women in some occupations, but this has changed meanwhile, too.

They are not the only ones with cradle to grave free med insurance.

Just another myth, the only ones with free med health care are people with no income at all. Everybody else, pays health insurance, even pensioners. So, it's not free, you pay your fare share in order to have health care. Also, medicaments, as I have already said in an earlier post, are not free. You pay a contribution that ranges from 10% to 25% of the total cost.

When the gov workers found out they were not going to get an increase in pay they worked out a deal to recieve 13 monthly paychecks in a 12 month year.

And yet it's all the 'banksters' fault.

You are misinformed: it was not goverment workers it was all workers and this was achieved a long time ago the same way, salary rises are achieved, by striking. Now, it is being taken back slowly. It has been reduced to a fixed sum at roughly half a months wage, at least for me as a pensioner.

You know I don't know where you are getting your information from, but may I suggest that the socalled yellow press (Bild in Germany, The Sun in the UK) is not the best source of information? Probably wasted since someone like you who spouts such propaganda and disinformation is probably not interested in educating himself or in denying ignorance.

The global bankers are responsible for what amounts to a debt based ponzie/pyramid scheme. When citizens stop taking on debt, home loans, car loans, credit cards, then the ponzie scheme starts to have problems.Remember, because of fractional reserve banking, only a portion of that wealth actually existed. The real wealth transfer comes from the interest made. A ponzie scheme needs a constant influx to stay afloat. So when taking on debt slows down, then they start loaning to more risky people to keep the scheme going. At the same time pulling tricks to scam a little more from the debt payers and raising rates. Eventually people are already swamped with debt or are to smart to take on debt at ridiculous rates. And it slows down even more. So they have to print money to make up for the slow down of new debt or have to gamble in high risk wallstreet ....and it just spirals out of control from there..

Remember a bank only makes money from interest from loans, the ups and downs of inflation, or gambling in wallstreet (once it gets to that point).

Whats the secret of the pyramids and cults that are all about them??? IMO It's the pyramid scheme.
In a extremely over complicated fashion to hide what it really is.