Electricity generated from water: BlackLight Power announces validation of its scientific breakthrou

reply to post by boncho


It takes time to develop stuff like this, you can't expect it to be done so quickly. And I don't see how his "theory of everything" is even all that relevant here, all that matters is his theory of hydrinos. Even I have developed a so called theory of everything, and 95% of it is most likely wrong... but that does not mean everything I say is wrong.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder

Actually no, I am one of the last people to believe this sort of thing at first glance. What I do tend believe however, is the multiple scientists and other professionals who are verifying and backing this work, especially when a respectable source does a high quality report on it. I have never seen anything that looked so promising out of the near hundreds of threads like this.

What respectable source did a "high quality report" on it?

Those "reports" are no better than toilet paper in the academic world and as I said are no more than an endorsement. And a major red flag is that one of the reports is listed as "confidential" yet Mills posts it on his website!!!

You do not understand academic integrity if you believe this to be legitimate.

In any case, the experiments were not reproduced and peer reviewed and that is a bare minimum to run around and pay to have a press release like this disseminated.

But I digress, some people probably haven't heard about Mills until now, so they are keen to jump on the 20 year old bandwagon.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by boncho

 

It takes time to develop stuff like this, you can't expect it to be done so quickly. And I don't see how his "theory of everything" is even all that relevant here, all that matters is his theory of hydrinos. Even I have developed a so called theory of everything, and 95% of it is most likely wrong... but that does not mean everything I say is wrong.

Mill's invented "hydrino" which he says he can produce on a whim (but not provide to anyone who has asked) is completely back by his theory on everything. Because the "hydrino" does not exist. It only exists in his convoluted theories which are laughed at by people in the same field as him. The people that are called crackpots, call Mills a crackpot! That says something...

reply to post by fenceSitter

If you can create energy from water then it would be easy to desalinate sea water to fresh water. There is no shortage of that.

The problem lays with how the energy is suppose to be produced: splitting water into it's Hydrogen and Oxygen components.

At that point, you can burn both, and the burning of Hydrogen produces clean water (that's about as green as you can get). However, the energy required to split the water into it's components of hydrogen and oxygen is more than what you prodcue.

Mills theory is to split the water, and then change the "ground state" of the hydrogen atom, producing what he calls a Hydrino.

There is a problem with this, in that what Blacklight Power is saying it can do, no one has been able to repeat with the same results that they are claiming:

Indipendent Hydrino Tests

According to the OP's article, this has supposedly changed:

In six separate, independent studies, leading scientists from academia and industry with PhDs from prestigious universities including the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and the California Institute of Technology, confirm that BlackLight has achieved a technological breakthrough with its CIHT (Catalyst-Induced-Hydrino-Transition) clean energy generating process and cell. The Process is fueled by water vapor that is a gaseous component of air and present wherever there is any source of water. The CIHT cell harnesses this energy as electrical power output and is suitable for essentially all power applications including transportation applications and electrical power production completely autonomous of fuels and grid infrastructure at a small fraction of the current capital costs.

However, before you all start jumping up and down celebrating about how we are all going to have cheap, clean, and available energy, I'd like to point out a couple of things:

1) This is not in production yet. You have a 100 W unit expect by the end of this year, and a 1.5 kW unit by next year. Take a look at your energy bill as to how many Watts you use in a month..........

2) Since no other company has rights to this: exactly what do you think Blacklight will be charging for these units? Hmmmm? I don't think they'll be giving them away for free, not considering how much money has been invested so far into it. Expect a price tag that would break a middle income house hold yearly budget. Power companies switching over to these "units" will have to pay for them, that cost will be put on your electric bill.

Hard Pressed

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
This is AMAZING news and the source is solid.

The solidity of the source is debatable...

SOURCE BlackLight Power, Inc.

The article is a press release from BlackLight Power. They are the ones reporting this news via PR Newswire, which basically anyone can use to publish press releases.

There are a lot of assertions being made by BlackLight Power, and I wouldn't presume to speak to all of them, but the fact that a press release written by them appears on MarketWatch doesn't lend any additional credibility to their claims.

Interpretation of EUV emissions observed by Mills et al.

Regular Article published 17 May 2012
authored by
A.V. Phelps and J. Clementson of:
JILA, National Institute of Standards and Technology and University of Colorado Boulder, and
Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, 94551-0808 Livermore, CA, USA

Download the pdf HERE

I smell scam. Another "scientific breakthrough" in the energy realm. I'm just very skeptical over these things.
I read about water vapor and splitting H2O. None of this is new of course. As for the topic itself, it's old news. Go back over a century and look up Lord Kelvin's thunderstorm for an interesting solid-state water-dripping to energy maker...

The company's got a snazzy name, too: Black Light Power.

A voice is telling me that this process will require more energy put into it than it's output is worth. There's probably some bad math in here somewhere or something just left out of the process that nobody's bothered to investigate.

Then there's these guys posting about how it'll rob the Earth of water! The price of water to skyrocket? Makes me laugh even more. There's more Water around on this planet than land. Anyone ever hear of Oceans? While I haven't studied the article in detail, I don't think it requires drinking quality pure water to work.

But what do I know. I'm probably the only living American who's Never, Ever paid for bottled water. Tap water's good enough for me, as it has been for my ancestors.

reply to post by fenceSitter


Trust me, they're better off taking this money and spending it on solar panels. That will pay off better in the end.

reply to post by boncho

And a major red flag is that one of the reports is listed as "confidential" yet Mills posts it on his website!!!

Errr, clearly you have never heard of declassification... and that is clearly what this is. You are simply trying to spin it into something it's not.

Originally posted by boncho
Mill's invented "hydrino" which he says he can produce on a whim (but not provide to anyone who has asked) is completely back by his theory on everything. Because the "hydrino" does not exist. It only exists in his convoluted theories which are laughed at by people in the same field as him.

A California Institute of Technology professor that advises brand name institutional investment firms on technology and business opportunities

Weinberg Report

A team from a Fortune 500 firm consisting of an expert R&D manager, a PhD physics US DOD advisor, and a PhD chemist with fuel cell expertise

F500 Study

Top-5 Engineering School Professor, California Institute of Technology PhD

Glumac Report

Industry expert, Massachusetts Institute of Technology PhD in chemical engineering, that managed R&D for brand name companies including battery and fuel cell product development

Copeland Report

Professor with expertise in materials science that collaborates with world renowned battery and materials science groups

Ramanujachary Report

Defense company with 25 research electrochemists that manufactures missile batteries for the defense departments

ENSER Report

reply to post by Ilyich

The results will be potential water shortages, how ever if this process does in fact prove useful, facilities to produce water will be needed to balance the consumption.

Surely the end product of burning hydrogen and oxygen is water? How can this cause water shortages?

Interesting... I'll give it that.

The heart of the theory is the "hydrino", an excited version of the hydrogen atom. Here is a simplified explanation of what a "hydrino" is supposed to be.

Notice I said "Supposed to be". As of yet, we have no proof outside of Blacklight Power that they exist. A little peer review would be nice.

Essentially, the device works like this: electrical energy is introduced to break down water vapor in the air into hydrogen and oxygen using traditional electrolysis. Then the hydrogen is converted into hydrinos via contact with certain chemicals (catalysts). The hydrogen releases energy during this process which is the output of the device. My initial thought, however, was the difficulty in maintaining elemental hydrogen in the first place. Hydrogen readily combines with other hydrogen and oxygen, so a large part of the process would be maintaining hydrogen in its elemental state for long enough to allow it to react.

Incidentally, this is why 'cold fusion' is so difficult; the super-high temperatures are needed to maintain the plasma (elemental structure) of the hydrogen.

There is also the concern over scalability; some things work fine in a laboratory or on a small scale, but resist attempts to increase that scale for commercial use. I am seeing a 100W prototype planned (actually a good size to prototype) and a 1.5kW demonstration unit planned after that. The latter seems a little small, especially in light of $75 million invested, but only time will tell if this theory is truly scalable.

The concern over water shortages where hydrogen is used as a conventional fuel is a moot point; hydrogen reacts so quickly with oxygen that any water consumed producing the hydrogen is created when the fuel is 'burned'. However, this process as described would be producing a new low-energy form of hydrogen that might present a problem. Energy is being drawn from the hydrogen via catalytic action, so the resulting hydrogen after the process is in a much lower energy state than it was before, possibly too low to recombine. It will naturally attempt to return to a more stable energy state, and that will require the introduction of the same amount of energy as was taken from it in the first place. In layman's terms, this exhaust will super-cool anything around it as it tries to return to its normal state.

That could be a positive. The heat transfer itself could be used to further produce power via thermocouples (they work both ways, converting electricity into temperature differentials and temperature differentials into electricity) or to cool homes and food in local units. But it could also be an issue with scalability, depending on how much reverse thermal energy is produced. After all, if a unit large enough to power a home freezes everything around it for a one-mile radius, that is simply not practical.

And, of course, with the recent failure of other 'green' energy schemes like Solyndra firmly in mind (wherein a lot of people made a lot of money personally, even though the taxpayers lost), I have to wonder if this is another scam masquerading as science. While I have not had time to wade through the math myself, I have come across references to claimed errors in the math... possibly true, possibly the result of jealousy among the reviewer.

I personally come down somewhere between "skeptical" and "cautiously optimistic"on this one for now.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by eriktheawful
At that point, you can burn both, and the burning of Hydrogen produces clean water (that's about as green as you can get). However, the energy required to split the water into it's components of hydrogen and oxygen is more than what you prodcue.

I think you're supposed to use solar to make hydrogen which is stored for winter. We have plenty of options for clean renewable energy, but they seem to be shot down. I know a self employed electrician who installs backup generators. I tried to show him Michael Strizki's place, but he stopped the video. He said he didn't think hydrogen would ever work. He thinks it's because it's not in mass production. I couldn't get more out of him. He lives in the rich redneck world, and I have a difficult time communicating with those people. I'm guessing his buddies also shoot down free energy. They might associate it with hippies, whom they blame a lot of the USA's problems on.

Here's Michael Strizki's place.

reply to post by Majic

The article is a press release from BlackLight Power.

Well even so it seems that many smart minds are behind this and confessing to its authenticity, I have never seen anything like this and I've seen a great deal of news like this. I don't believe so many qualified people would be backing this unless it had some authenticity to it. His "theory of everything" is not as faulty as Boncho would have us believe, it actually tends to correctly predict and explain many phenomena which current physics doesn't. There is something to this, or else I don't believe so many people would have put so much money and backing into this research. It seems to me like a lot of you are very quick to dismiss this without actually looking deeper into it.

Self Realization

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
It seems to me like a lot of you are very quick to dismiss this without actually looking deeper into it.

I'm not dismissing it, just suggesting readers consider the source.

What exactly does it mean by 'shrink' the hydrogen atom? Are they saying that the single orbiting electron moves to a lower orbit?

reply to post by PhoenixOD

Exactly. Electron orbits vary with different energy levels, the higher energy levels being larger physically than lower-energy ones. By decreasing the size of the electron's orbit, the differential in energy is released.

Because of the way atoms physically interact in chemical combination, not all energy levels may be available in compounds. That is why the hydrogen must be in its elemental state in order to achieve the lower energy levels.

TheRedneck

Click here for more information.

Water powered electricity... that is truly amazing!
I remember Denny Klein's Water Powered Welder & Car from back in 2006
www.youtube.com...

His company Hydrogen Technology Applications, Inc.: www.hytechapps.com...
Looks like the website hasn't been updated in 3 years.

reply to post by TheRedneck


Thanks , my ex-chemistry teacher will be so glad i got that right. I guess all in all there is a hell of a lot of energy tied up the that one electron.