The Police Are Scared Of Occupy

It's just so obvious. If not, why resort to the clearly obvious unwarranted levels of violence that they are doing?

It's such an obvious sign that they're scared of the demise of a system that is clearly passing away. There's no use listing the things they've done just today, never mind all the other days, because you can simply google them.

But why do it? Why defend a system that's screwing them over too? And their families? Is it that they just don't see how much things could change for the better, and how much power they themselves have to help bring that about?

Cointelpro and Black Bloc should be researched in to if you haven't, please google them and have a read. If you don't know about them it'll certainly make you stop and have a think about the so called "protesters" that have been smashing things up today.

There's also something I wrote earlier here : www.abovetopsecret.com...

Many of us knew there'd be violence today, it's obvious! It's such a simple explanation that it boggles the mind as to why people fall for it time and time again : it's so that the MSM can report on the trouble instead of the numbers that turned out peacefully, and tarnish the movement. Come on people! Seriously!

Anyway, Raymond Kelly, I hope your job is over with soon. You've been a disgrace, and this is from someone who's only watched a bit of what's been going on. Such clear tactics of intimidation and violence that weren't needed at all. If there's ever the so called "mass arrests", I hope you're one of the first.

Occupy people in NY are also protesting for the rights of your own officers and their families, and you're just being a disgrace as you send them out to battle them when there's no battling at all needed.

So stop being scared Police! Stop defending a dying system and have a think about what you're doing. You are being used, and you have been used for a long time, just like we have, and that's why the protests will never stop until this current system has been changed for the better. A corrupt system is only ever doomed, and the end of it is what will be seen eventually.

To any trolls : the more you do it the more obvious you make the whole thing! You just make it more and more surreal until there's no longer any doubt. Your aim is to restore the normal way of things and move them on, but things aren't normal at all so you cannot do it. It's a futile attempt to cover up what's in plain sight, what more people are staring at every day. A corrupt system that we no longer want any part of.

The police, or the people giving the police orders, seem to mainly fear one thing, and that's people gathering and staying in any area. Because if that happens, the longer they do it, the more they leave "consensus" reality behind and start creating their own.

And that, to the establishment, is the one thing they can't allow.

This is something new for everyone. I mean... riots and protests happen, but rioting hasn't really been seen on this level for such a cause in a long time. Of course there is a form of intimidation or fear that the OWS is generating. This is obvious...

I don't think that all the police are necessarily there to defend the systems, as you state. But rather, are there to keep the peace. There's a difference. It may not be as obvious for some, but this is in fact the case for many. Believe it or not, there are officers who do identify with the movement, but their hands are tied. They want to keep peace and civility, nothing more for many of them.

Ya know, it's funny...

While watching the protests in Northern Africa or the Middle East, I always sat and wondered about the thoughts and feelings of those who were in these cities. The divisions that it made amongst them, and how it would all play out. All in preparation for what I figured would be the coming reality for the US.

This was incredibly difficult, due to the use of propaganda, not knowing who to trust, what words contained truth and which contained bias and sensationalism. That's when I realized, it's all of the above. There's very little reporting that reflects the perception of the events that I would have held if I were present, and all of the facts to be known are not all present when reported.

From everything I gathered... in moments of critical thinking, and deciding if I agree or not with the actions taken, I have concluded:

1. Just like religions, there are always to be extremists

2. The actions of said extremists does not define the entirety of any said group of people.

3. The media, and propaganda will always define a group by the actions of said extremists.

All in all, I don't like to admit it... but I do support the ideals behind the OWS. But, that does not suggest that I agree with the means that they are or will inevitably be taking. Those who think that this will remain 'civil' or 'peaceful' are living in a alternate reality, this is delusional thinking. This is exactly why I will not align my self with a group that lends itself to defining themselves with a label and acting as a collective. My group is the people, which includes the 1%.

This country(US) is not to be over ran by mob rule, and this is exactly what OWS thinks is their advantage. Claiming that they are the 99%. The are only united in their pursuits, but not by their means. There are divisions amongst them, they are not united... and the actions of a few(such as violence) is not condone by everyone. Yet the public perception will never allow for this to be taken into consideration. MSM will have a field day with this if the violence and destruction of property continues. Which will cast a shadow of doubt over the entire initiative of any type of 'Revolution', or at least restoring the freedoms that we all are endowed by our creator. Our pursuit of happiness has been obstructed, our liberties left silent as MSM has all but muted or suppress all true voices of dissent, and peoples lives are paying the costs. Yet, we still have mediums such as ATS or Social Networking sites, we still have local papers, city halls, and all sorts of avenues to take in order to restore this.

The attempts taken by OWS and all it encompasses will not succede in their pursuits... just an opinion, but one deeply rooted. You don't think that the government is prepared for this? You are crazy. You think that this wont be taken in all seriousness, and your freedoms wont be taken away? You are crazy.

Your voice is being heard, like the groaning of a bunch of ornery sheep, and the wolves dressed in your clothing will dismantle all of your pursuits.

Wake up...

I apologize for the rant, maybe I should just make a thread, collect 3 stars and move on...

Huge crowds of leaderless, goal-less young people sprinkled with inciters?

Yeah, they probably should be scared.

For each protester there is 10 poor souls just trying to walk home. That is why the police are there. Trust me, I am no defender of the police but the fact remains, some people are just trying to go about their lives without getting caught up in a dangerous mob.

If you want police to think for themselves we would have to end the governments monopoly on law enforcement. I'd be down for that. I don't exactly agree with police inciting violence (another benefit of their monopoly on law enforcement) but they do need to be there.

For the Police, the system is not dying, it is going just fine. Police won't bother thinking past their orders until they have no paycheck or their money becomes worthless.

I can't speak for the rest of the world, but over here, the constitution protects our natural right to protest, it never said anything about not getting beat up, bloodied, and bashed for exercising that natural right. Violence and police resistance should be expected with any large protest, when has it not occurred?

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. If a protester isn't willing to get their head smashed in, I think they need to re-examine how committed they are to their cause.

Violence isn't the exception in this world, violence is the rule.

reply to post by robhines

Scared? That's a bit of a high opinion of Occupy, I'd say. That is especially true when only one side has the guns and the tanks, and you're suggesting that is the side which is scared?

I think the overkill of force is precisely what I personally predicted back in the end of the Fall. They aren't scared a bit. The cops can outnumber the Occupy people 100:1 in the time it takes for more to drive the distance, any time the radio call goes out for mutual aid. That applies pretty much anywhere in the nation. Perhaps if Occupy goes to Ely Nevada or some small town in the backwoods of Maine, they COULD actually cause some fear in local law that didn't prepare.

It's far more likely, in my opinion, that the cops are sick and tired of it. They aren't playing or even showing basic courtesy and this started last November into December. Now it's not just Occupy who have spent the Winter planning, training and preparing. The cops just intend to bag, tag and book Occupy members in time to be home when the shift ends.

It's going to be painful to watch until Occupy mellows their tactics and adapts to the crushing force I expect will be the norm here on out for street fights.

Will respond later hopefully, am a bit tired now, but thanks for the replies.

Knew there was something I'd forgot though :

The police, or the people giving the police orders, seem to mainly fear one thing, and that's people gathering and staying in any area. Because if that happens, the longer they do it, the more they leave "consensus" reality behind and start creating their own.

And that, to the establishment, is the one thing they can't allow.

Originally posted by sageofmonticello
For each protester there is 10 poor souls just trying to walk home. That is why the police are there. Trust me, I am no defender of the police but the fact remains, some people are just trying to go about their lives without getting caught up in a dangerous mob.

Sorry, that might work in some cases, like the more extreme ones of today, but it doesn't always. If there's no violence or hassle and the Occupy people are trying to stay in one place, the police create the violence and the hassle to move them on. In many cases, it's the police actions that actually create the dangerous situation.

And that's why people like Raymond Kelly should be removed from their positions.

reply to post by robhines


I am not saying that the police don't create violence. I am simply saying that it is necessary for the police to be there to protect against potential violence and crime coming from the other direction, whether it is occurring or not is beside the point. Large gatherings of people have a tendency to get out of hand with or without the police stirring up trouble.

I've been caught up in large mobs like that before. Peaceful can turn ugly very quick with such large groups and after getting randomly punched a few times and having glass bottles thrown randomly into crowds and having them crash on my and others heads I was pretty happy to see the police, as spiteful and questioning of them as I am.

All I know is it certainly wasn't the police trashing buildings in seattle...

The police didnt look scared from this seat tonight, after an hour or so watching various live streams. I think they kicked the civilians a$$e$ the SHTF over this? Lets hope everyone doesn't go down as easy as the OWS MAYDAY crowd or TPTB will have no problem keeping control.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
All I know is it certainly wasn't the police trashing buildings in seattle...

Yeah, but how do you know it was people who were genuine Occupy people? That's why I said to check out cointelpro and black bloc, because it might help explain things, or at least give another viewpoint. I'm not saying it's definitely the case, just that it might be related.

A comment from The Guardian comments section :

Obviously they had been told to hold back, at least until we got downtown to lower Broadway when they started to act in their usual Giuliani/Bloomberg mode. Instead of letting the unions and Occupiers assemble in Zuccotti or in the Battery they forced us to keep walking and meanwhile set up a zillion barricades and stood across Broadway in herds festooned with those vicious plastic handcuffs. People who live and work in the area thought it was ridiculous.

All they want is an excuse to arrest as many protesters as possible. Some NY politicians have started a lawsuit against the police for brutality and unprovoked arrests.

Source : www.guardian.co.uk...

reply to post by robhines




Frankly, a group with no leadership and no stated goal doesn't have the luxery of claiming infiltration. The nature of the OWS movement has attracted many who advocate anarchy and chaos. OWS doesn't get to seperate themselves from these people, as there is nothing identifying about OWS TO seperate them from the so-called "others".


I don't need to "check out" cointelpro. I've been well versed on the topic LONG before OWS existed. It is nothing new for them to infiltrate protests. In this instance, OWS has made their own bed.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Frankly, a group with no leadership and no stated goal doesn't have the luxery of claiming infiltration. The nature of the OWS movement has attracted many who advocate anarchy and chaos. OWS doesn't get to seperate themselves from these people, as there is nothing identifying about OWS TO seperate them from the so-called "others".

Yes there is, and they do get to separate themselves from them. The genuine Occupy people don't want violence and chaos on the streets when they protest. And one of their goals is to highlight the way corporations have influence over governments, which makes the system corrupt. If you don't need to "check out" cointelpro and black bloc, then maybe you should research what Occupy are about more.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
In this instance, OWS has made their own bed.

No they haven't, the people wanting the corrupt system in place are working hard to make a bed for them, and they've been at it for a long time, because they are scared of the awareness that's being raised of the corrupt system itself.

Or do you think the people in power aren't trying to do anything to discredit them? Do you really think they're happily going to let them expose the system for what it is, but it's the Occupy people that just can't manage it well enough? If so, that's worrying.

They've been in power for centuries across the world, and they're just going to sit by as Occupy expose the whole fraud without using the police to attack and discredit them? Seriously. The police are being used.

reply to post by robhines


I have no need to research OWS any more than I already have.

I don't doubt that there are those working to paint OWS in a negative light, but really, they don't need to work too hard at it. OWS does a great job of it itself.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I get that they're not perfect, but I think the vast majority are doing a great job. As for them not having any stated goal, I just did a quick check to find something, it basically backs up what I said and isn't aimed at arguing with you or scoring points, just wanted to put it here :

As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

Source : The Declaration of the Occupation

reply to post by robhines



seen it before.
Being against corporate greed is not a stated goal.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
reply to post by robhines

 

seen it before.
Being against corporate greed is not a stated goal.

Fair enough, raising awareness of it pretty much is though. Anyway, I've been at this for about 20 hours now with not much sleep and don't have much more energy for this. I get that their goals could be clearer, I'm not blindly trying to make out they're perfect, and that you do have a point, as do many others that say the same thing about stated goals. I just think people are being way too heavily against them, and events like the negative ones from yesterday fit perfectly into many peoples agendas, including those from corrupt governments and corporations.

But that's only the negative, and Occupy will live to fight another day, and hopefully settle some of the doubts many people have about them. And when that day arrives, the tactics used by the police will again be highlighted.

reply to post by robhines


If I was a Law Enforcement Officer I would be scared of Occupy too. Historically leftist thugs like Occupy have butchered well over(14 million in Europe under Nazism, 30 Million+ In the Soviet Union, 100 million? in China etc) a hundred million people in the 20th century. Only a fool would ignore the threat of leftist agitators.

Originally posted by korathin
reply to post by robhines

 

If I was a Law Enforcement Officer I would be scared of Occupy too. Historically leftist thugs like Occupy have butchered well over(14 million in Europe under Nazism, 30 Million+ In the Soviet Union, 100 million? in China etc) a hundred million people in the 20th century. Only a fool would ignore the threat of leftist agitators.

Leftist is a myth. It's the classic divide and conquer agenda at work, see point 2) here : www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by robhines


Apparently it is equally as "obvious" that police are afraid of the mentally diminished homeless, of poor old grandma's dog, and the police, like any primitive, are horrified of having their spirits captured by unarmed cameramen. It is painfully obvious, at least to those who've suffered the beatings and indignities of scaredy cat police that the police are afraid...very afraid.

Or, it may be that many of them are really just a bunch of Droogie oogie doogie's, Doobidoob. Just a bunch of filthy old soomka's!

their fear is understandable. you've got a huge crowd of people that will be trying to provoke you into doing something that'll get you fired from your chosen career.

cops enjoy days when nothing happens, but now you've got a bunch of brats and complainers that are coming on your beat for no other reason to give you crap...

when cops show up at your door sometimes unannounced and always for no good reason, wouldn't you be afraid?