It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
socialism
Definition of SOCIALISM
1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done.
com·mu·nism
Definition of COMMUNISM
1 a: a theory advocating elimination of private property b: a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed
2 capitalized a: a doctrine based on revolutionary Marxian socialism and Marxism-Leninism that was the official ideology of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
b: a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production
c: a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods are distributed equitably d: communist systems collectively.
"The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism." Karl Marx.
" Democracy is the road to socialism." Karl Marx.
"The goal of socialism is communism. Vladimir Lenin
"The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism." Karl Marx.
" Democracy is the road to socialism." Karl Marx.
"The goal of socialism is communism. Vladimir Lenin
Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
If in order to be socialist/communist people can't make money, then THERE ARE NO SOCIALISTS AND COMMUNISTS ANYWHERE in the world because all of them make money, most of them are even part of the middle class and even some are richer...
Under a socialist/communist system the STATE dictates how much you really need to eat, and what you can eat, as well as deciding what you need, and "for the good of the collective" you are not allowed to have what you want.
Under socialism/communism "The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism." Karl Marx.
Which means that if you disagree with anything about socialism/communism "YOU ARE AN ENEMY OF THE STATE/REVOLUTION"... This is part of the "permanent revolution".
Even Karl Marx also stated that "Democracy is the road to socialism." Karl Marx.
And even Lenin said that "The goal of socialism is communism. Vladimir Lenin
www.brainyquote.com...
To Karl Marx and others socialism is but a stage to convert a capitalist country into the final goal of COMMUNISM...
This is the reason why these days "COMMUNISTS" are trying to blur the differences between socialism and communism, because in truth their goal has always, and will always be COMMUNISM.
BTW, another fact that COMMUNISTS like ANOK love to ignore is the fact that in socialism/communism PRIVATE PROPERTY IS ABOLISHED, so how can the workers own anything when private property is abolished?... This is where the state comes in, as the upper echelon in the socialist/communist party CLAIM to "represent the workers", they are the ones who decide what to do with all infraestructure.
The truth is that your personal property—what you need to enjoy a secure and comfortable life—is a lot safer under socialism than under capitalism...
Private property is the employment, control, ownership, ability to dispose of, and bequeath land, capital, and other forms of property by persons and privately-owned firms.[1] Private property is distinguishable from public property and collective property, which refers to assets owned by a state, community or government rather than by individuals or a business entity.[2] Private property emerged as the dominant form of property in the means of production and land during the Industrial Revolution in the early 18th century, displacing feudal property, guilds, cottage industry and craft production, which were based on ownership of the tools for production by individual laborers or guilds of craftspeople.[3]
Meanwhile in capitalism ANYONE can better themselves if they have the will.
Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by ANOK
Wow, and you continue with your lies
Originally posted by ANOK
Didn't we go over this? There is nothing wrong with socialists making money. You are just making things up.
Originally posted by ANOK
Again we've been over this also. Please answer this question, if socialism is state control then why are anarchists socialists?
Originally posted by ANOK
If you don't understand that then go back and read what I've been saying, then go and read a few books and see what I'm saying is true.
Originally posted by ANOK
No it doesn't. The opposition to socialism in the time of Marx was the very violent capitalist state system, and still is.
Originally posted by ANOK
The term "permanent revolution" simply means for the working class to continue to pursue it's own interests independently, without compromise, of any other class or political coercion.
Originally posted by ANOK
No one is blurring anything, you are simply taking quotes out of context and using your misunderstanding of terms to make stuff up.
Originally posted by ANOK
Socialism is the workers ownership of the means of production. It has markets and uses money.
Originally posted by ANOKCommunism is when socialism has increased production to the point all peoples needs are met and money becomes irrelevant. Communities share resources communally.
Originally posted by ANOK
I am not a communist, I have never said I'm a communist. I've just done extensive reading on the subject. I am a socialist, which I have been since I was a teenager, I have been a member of 'Militant' and 'Class War London'.
I'm not just some internet educated fool.
Originally posted by ANOK
No, private property is not abolished, again you make assumptions from out of context statements. You can have all the private property you want. If workers were educated they would organize and open worker owned businesses. No need to abolish anything, just give people a choice.
1) Abolition of private property and the application of all rents of land to public purposes.
The theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property.
KARL MARX, The Communist Manifesto
...
The answer is a society where the means of production—factories, mines, railroads, the energy sources, all things used to create new wealth—are owned publicly, not privately. And that means socialism—a society where private property has been abolished....
Cuba was transformed into a society where the state owned and organised production in all significant areas. Instead of decisions about investments and production being made by private capitalists, they were made by the Cuban state, heavily dependant on the whims of the USSR.
State-controlled economies are subject to the same pressures as market economies, and equally rely on the continued exploitation of the workforce.
Ordinary Cuban workers did not have any say in the important decisions that affected their lives—the targets for economic plans and the distribution of scarce consumer goods between the state and the rest of the population.
Worker-owned collectives are a specific type of worker cooperatives, which are business entities that are owned and controlled by their members, the people who work in them. The two central characteristics of worker cooperatives are: (1) workers invest in and own the business and (2) decision-making is democratic, generally adhering to the principle of one worker-one vote. Worker-owned collectives in particular use consensus decision making practices to manage the company.
The acknowledged aim of socialism is to take the means of production out of the hands of the capitalist class and place them into the hands of the workers. This aim is sometimes spoken of as public ownership, sometimes as common ownership of the production apparatus. There is, however, a marked and fundamental difference...
Shared ownership helps to diversify rather than concentrate wealth and roots the value it generates in communities...
Socialist ownership of the means of production is ownership by all workers. Capitalists cease to exist and workers cease to be their employees.
Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
The answer is a society where the means of production—factories, mines, railroads, the energy sources, all things used to create new wealth—are owned publicly, not privately. And that means socialism—a society where private property has been abolished....
www.workers.org...
Nationalization (British English spelling nationalisation) is the process of taking an industry or assets into government ownership by a national government or state.[1] Nationalization usually refers to private assets, but may also mean assets owned by lower levels of government, such as municipalities, being transferred to the public sector to be operated and owned by the state. The opposite of nationalization is usually privatization or de-nationalization, but may also be municipalization.
Originally posted by ANOK
I will link this again, maybe you will read it this time?
Marx has been badly served by disciples who have succeeded neither in assessing the limits of his theory nor in determining its standards and field of application and has ended up by taking on the role of some mythical giant, a symbol of the omniscience and omnipotence of homo faber, maker of his own destiny.
The history of the School remains to be written, but at least we know how it came into being: Marxism, as the codification of a misunderstood and misinterpreted body of thought, was born and developed at a time when Marx’s work was not yet available in its entirely and when important parts of it remained unpublished. Thus, the triumph of Marxism as a State doctrine and Party ideology preceded by several decades the publication of the writings where Marx set out most clearly and completely the scientific basis and ethical purpose of his social theory. That great upheavals took place which invoked a body of thought whose major principles were unknown to the protagonists in the drama of history should have been enough to show that Marxism was the greatest, if not the most tragic, misunderstanding of the century. But at the same time this allows us to appreciate the significance of the theory held by Marx that it is not revolutionary ideas or moral principles which bring about changes in society, but rather human and material forces; that ideas and ideologies very often serve only to disguise the interest of the class in whose interests the upheavals take place. Political Marxism cannot appeal to Marx’s science and at the same time escape the critical analysis which that science uses to unmask the ideologies of power and exploitation.
Marxism as the ideology of a master class has succeeded in emptying the concepts of socialism and communism, as Marx and his forerunners understood them, of their original meaning and has replaced it with the picture of a reality which is its complete negation. Although closely linked to the other two, a third concept – anarchism – seems however to have escaped this fate of becoming a mystification*. But while people know that Marx had very little sympathy for certain anarchists, it is not so generally known that despite this he still shared the anarchist ideal and objectives: the disappearance of the State. It is therefore pertinent to recall that in embracing the cause of working class emancipation, Marx started off in the anarchist tradition rather than in that of socialism or communism; and that, when finally he chose to call himself a “communist,” for him this term did not refer to one of the communist currents which then existed, but rather to a movement of thought and mode of action which had yet to be founded by gathering together all the revolutionary elements which had been inherited from existing doctrines and from the experience of past struggles.
Engels explains why the transition from socialism to communism must be gradual. Because private property cannot be abolished all at once...
“Theoretically, there can be no doubt that between capitalism and communism there lies a definite transition period which must combine the features and properties of both these forms of social economy.” Engels
“Finally, when all capital, all production, and all exchange are concentrated in the hands of the nation, private ownership will automatically have ceased to exist, money will have become superfluous, and production will have so increased and men will be so much changed that the last forms of the old social relations will also be able to fall away.” Engels
In the anarchist, Marxist and socialist sense, free association (also called free association of producers or, as Marx often called it, community of freely associated individuals) is a kind of relation between individuals where there is no state, social class or authority, in a society that has abolished the private property of means of production. Once private property is abolished, individuals are no longer deprived of access to means of production so they can freely associate themselves (without social constraint) to produce and reproduce their own conditions of existence and fulfill their needs and desires.
Originally posted by ANOK
This has been explained to you. Socialists believe in the abolition of private property used to exploit workers.