Ancient Nuclear Wars and Past Civilisations

Originally posted by Hanslune
reply to post by owtFsink

 

If there had been a massive nuclear war this would show in the sediment and ice coring from around the world and the Arctic and Antarctic it would also show up in deviations in the fossil pollen counts, etc

OH! i totally agree, but i think it at least plausable they may have been in possesion of powerful weapons, they just were not "nuclear"...

It could even be possible that they could have been scalar / EM based(but dont quote me, im just throwing out ideas)?

heck, maybe it was a saiyan...

Originally posted by owtFsink
OH! i totally agree, but i think it at least plausable they may have been in possesion of powerful weapons, they just were not "nuclear"...

It could even be possible that they could have been scalar / EM based(but dont quote me, im just throwing out ideas)?

heck, maybe it was a saiyan...

The basic problem remains, no signs of civilizations to have wielded these fine weapons. The only way to get around the lack of evidence is to envoke sci-fi, different dimensions or non-human civilizations millions of years ago. the former is highly speculative and the later unproven

Originally posted by Hanslune

Originally posted by owtFsink
OH! i totally agree, but i think it at least plausable they may have been in possesion of powerful weapons, they just were not "nuclear"...

It could even be possible that they could have been scalar / EM based(but dont quote me, im just throwing out ideas)?

heck, maybe it was a saiyan...

The basic problem remains, no signs of civilizations to have wielded these fine weapons. The only way to get around the lack of evidence is to envoke sci-fi, different dimensions or non-human civilizations millions of years ago. the former is highly speculative and the later unproven

well...
The indications given in some ancient texts coupled with odd geographic formations in these general areas described would, to me, be a sign. Yes the evidence is sparse, inconclusive and even speculative, but obviously enough to grab someones attention.

with that speculative evidence, one would almost be forces to apply occams razor, given that i do not have or know all the evidence i would be a poor candidate to do so, perhaps someone versed in rock vitrifacation/formations, radiation contamination, and ancient civilizations would be better for it.

I know we are constantly bombards with radon from within the earth, perhaps the areas beleived to be the sites for these "battles" are nothing more than radon hotspots within the mantle? as for the rock vitrifaction formations i have heard of them in relation to these old texts but have never seen pictures or such.

reply to post by owtFsink


There are places in the world where the level of radioactivity/radon is high and is in the water, however it appears natural. Now the vitrified forts ARE a mystery. No one has had the time nor money to try different ways of burning a stone fort to see if the wall will 'vitrifiy'.

To find really old high tech societies look at the resources they would have needed and whether those have been touched. Other than that geologists would note layers with non-natural inclusions. Ice cores go back hundreds of thousands of years too and those show nothing that presently can be considered 'non-natural'.

Tought search, good luck

Not trying to take one in anyones cheerios but neanderthals and modern humans are 2 different species.

Researchers sequencing Neandertal DNA have concluded that between 1 and 4 percent of the DNA of people today who live outside Africa came from Neandertals, the result of interbreeding between Neandertals and early modern humans.

www.scientificamerican.com...

Mating with Neanderthals and another group of extinct hominids, Denisovans, strengthened the human immune system and left behind evidence in the DNA of people today, according to new research.

"The modern human populations who left Africa to colonize other continents were likely to have been small groups who started off with limited HLA diversity and suffered further reduction of HLA diversity due to disease," Parham told Discovery News. "Interbreeding with archaic humans introduced additional HLA variants into the modern human population that increased their genetic viability and capacity to resist infection."

news.discovery.com...

Did we actually invent the bomb or did someone find information from some old writing and decipher what it means? It still needed much testing and developing of things. I believe there was an advanced race on earth before, It would be imbecilic to believe that in millions of years that we were the first. The truth is hidden from us on many things. I feel that there is more chance of a highly evolved terrestrial race presently on earth than aliens from elsewhere.

Originally posted by rickymouse
Did we actually invent the bomb or did someone find information from some old writing and decipher what it means? It still needed much testing and developing of things.

You can read the papers written on this over the last century, they don't appear to have any prior knowledge and a number of 'wrong' turns were made; by the Americans, Germans and Japanese who first tried to develop it.

I believe there was an advanced race on earth before, It would be imbecilic to believe that in millions of years that we were the first.

However based on the evidence we have there is no sign of development of a creature with intelligence before us poor primates. Now we could certainly have missed those fossils but - what causes you to believe in such a race?

The truth is hidden from us on many things. I feel that there is more chance of a highly evolved terrestrial race presently on earth than aliens from elsewhere.

Perhaps but at present the lack of evidence is rather persuasive - until we actually find something

im starting to notice on this site that when a lack of evidence is presented to prove something it is automatically disproved? this is a quandry to me becasue these same people use that same lack of evidence as proof of thier contradictory theories and assume that they do not have to back up thier claims becasue there is alack of evidence against them...
that is not science

so there is no radiation in ice core samples, using that singular lack of evidence repeatedly does not mean there isnt any...
do all of our current weapons and technology leave behind massive amounts of radiation, NO, so then why is it hard to accept the possiblity that IF a previous society existed they may have had advanced weapons that could cause similar destruction, without leaving behind massive swaths of irradiated land or effecting the atmosphere.

Also what is to say that a small nuclear detonation would leave a large enough imprint to be noticed in an ice sample, radiation does not float freely through the air, it is the dust and small particles that become irradiated, would it not be at least plausable that these materials settled before reaching an ice cap to be stored for future evidence or even if it made it maybe it was so minute that someone missed it...?

Originally posted by owtFsink
im starting to notice on this site that when a lack of evidence is presented to prove something it is automatically disproved? this is a quandry to me becasue these same people use that same lack of evidence as proof of thier contradictory theories and assume that they do not have to back up thier claims becasue there is alack of evidence against them...
that is not science

Actually it is, what you are saying is that since you have no evidence of x then x must exist because it hasn't been proven to NOT exist. Okay. So that pretty much means everything exists......

so there is no radiation in ice core samples, using that singular lack of evidence repeatedly does not mean there isnt any...

Well it might be there but until it is found why would we think it there? Sure you can have a theory about it being there and you can speculate what it might mean if it were. The problem is at some point you have to come up with real evidence and not speculation.

do all of our current weapons and technology leave behind massive amounts of radiation, NO, so then why is it hard to accept the possiblity that IF a previous society existed they may have had advanced weapons that could cause similar destruction, without leaving behind massive swaths of irradiated land or effecting the atmosphere.

To create those weapons we've taken thousands of years and left an amazing amount of trash behind. Our facilities to make those weapons are large, require massive infrastructure and resource collection - all of which leaves an archaelogical trace - that trace is missing in your theory.

Now if some alien dudes popped in and shot off a 100 Kiloton device over a neolithic village - would we detect it? Probably not

Originally posted by Hanslune

To create those weapons we've taken thousands of years and left an amazing amount of trash behind. Our facilities to make those weapons are large, require massive infrastructure and resource collection - all of which leaves an archaelogical trace - that trace is missing in your theory.

what proof do you have to back that up? only conjecture that there is no evidence, perhaps it was washed away in a great flood....or perhaps they were not as foolish and wasteful as we are.
The archaelogical traces that DO exist are the ones we are talking about, the rock vitrification, the leveled and irradiated cities and bodies that were uncovered, that also just happen to coincide with locations and storys from ancient texts...

4,600 million years, can we even comprehend that ? it's a heck of a long time.

We look back at the dinosaurs which first appeared around 230 million years ago. That too seems like along time ago, but it's only a small portion of the age of our Solar System. What came before the Dinosaurs ? does anyone know ?

In one of my previous posts in another thread I gave my reasoning why I didn't think it possible that a historic advanced civilisation could have existed on Earth before now, but having thought about the enormous timescale, I'm beginning to doubt my own beliefs

So, I suppose it's a perfectly plausible idea

*Edited to add*

I honestly wouldn't be in the least bit surprised to find out that ancient civilisations once lived and thrived on Mars at some point in the murky depths of ancient history.

Originally posted by owtFsink


or perhaps they were not as foolish and wasteful as we are.

,,but they destroyed themselves with nuclear - or worst weapons?

The archaelogical traces that DO exist are the ones we are talking about, the rock vitrification,

Vitrification is not understood, that doesn't mean it defaults to nukes

For a long time it was supposed that these forts were peculiar to Scotland; but they are found also in County Londonderry and County Cavan, in Ireland; in Upper Lusatia, Bohemia, Silesia, Saxony and Thuringia; in the provinces on the Rhine, especially in the neighbourhood of the Nahe; in the Ucker Lake, in Brandenburg, where the walls are formed of burnt and smelted bricks; in Hungary; and in several places in France, such as Châteauvieux, Péran, La Courbe, Sainte Suzanne, Puy de Gaudy and Thauron

the leveled and irradiated cities and bodies that were uncovered, that also just happen to coincide with locations and storys from ancient texts...

Now that is the problem, there are no 'irradiated cities and bodies' those are made up stories, nor do these 'coincide' with stories from ancient texts

Originally posted by Riakennor

In one of my previous posts in another thread I gave my reasoning why I didn't think it possible that a historic advanced civilisation could have existed on Earth before now, but having thought about the enormous timescale, I'm beginning to doubt my own beliefs

So, I suppose it's a perfectly plausible idea

*Edited to add*

I honestly wouldn't be in the least bit surprised to find out that ancient civilisations once lived and thrived on Mars at some point in the murky depths of ancient history

That is an immense amount of time; and we certainly don't have a clear picture of everything that went on. Could another species have arisen without our noting it? Yes. Do we have evidence of it, nope

So there we remain; we can speculate, we can believe, we can hope but we cannot provide evidence in support

My favorite speculation: That an alien probe came thru the solar system 750,000 years ago and this planet is in a data base somewhere showing that there is life here - any evidence of this, not a damn thing - but I like to believe it!

reply to post by Hanslune


...
trying to have a philisophical/speculative conversation with a literal mind is frustrating....

ok so there is no evidence of any of it....

there is no rock vitrifation, there is no ancient texts to lead us to beleive that a great battle took place, end of story have a nice day

Originally posted by owtFsink
reply to post by Hanslune

 

...
trying to have a philisophical/speculative conversation with a literal mind is frustrating....

ok so there is no evidence of any of it....

Then label your discussion as speculative not reality

there is no rock vitrifation,

Sorry no you're appear to be deliberately misrepresenting what I said? To restate rock vitrification exist but explanation for it are not fully accepted - is that clearer for you now? lol

A discussion here: Those darn forts

The result has been duplicated in part but the purpose and methodology is not fully understood

there is no ancient texts to lead us to beleive that a great battle took place, end of story have a nice day

Again you deliberately misquote me; I did not say there aren't ancient text describing ancient mythological wars, there are, but I would suggest that what you are referring too are new age mistranslations which make them sound like nuclear war.

In 8000+ years, most evidence would have returned to the earth. Aluminum would be unrecognizable if buried, Iron would most likely be a rock with a rusty color around it. Silver would turn to oxide and even stainless steel would appear as a thin layer of crystal in the soils, easily shoveled through. If conditions were right these things could be preserved, they may have been found long ago and may be found amongst your parents junk. If there was a big city like Atlantis that had great technology and it was destroyed by something, all evidence would be long gone, surviving metals eaten out by the salt of the sea. I doubt if there would be any proof left but maybe there just might be proof in the Vatican's vaults.

So until there is strong evidence proving that no advanced beings lived here in earths history, I will believe that an advanced culture of beings could have existed. I may still ACT as if I believe people who know they didn't exist just to be perceived as normal.

Originally posted by Hanslune

Then label your discussion as speculative not reality

sry, given the topic i did not feel that was entirely nessecary
on top of which why does everything need to be labeled?

and yes i did misquote you i was frustrated,
i several times tried to pry your mind away from "nuclear" anything but you wont have it...

Originally posted by rickymouse
In 8000+ years, most evidence would have returned to the earth. Aluminum would be unrecognizable if buried, Iron would most likely be a rock with a rusty color around it. Silver would turn to oxide and even stainless steel would appear as a thin layer of crystal in the soils, easily shoveled through. If conditions were right these things could be preserved, they may have been found long ago and may be found amongst your parents junk. If there was a big city like Atlantis that had great technology and it was destroyed by something, all evidence would be long gone, surviving metals eaten out by the salt of the sea. I doubt if there would be any proof left but maybe there just might be proof in the Vatican's vaults.

The vaults of the Vatican have been looted a number of times so probably nothing to interesting there - do you think they'd keep Atlantean pottery there?

Metals do survive especially gold, pottery survives just like rock, as does glass, even common brick if fired survives, cut gems. slag from smelting, etc. If you drive a pole into the ground - its possible that 100 million years from now that pole's disturbance of the soil will be preserved in sedimentary rock - just luck

So until there is strong evidence proving that no advanced beings lived here in earths history,

You are requiring negative evidence - an impossibility - so your belief is quite safe! Example, please prove that unicorns don't exist - until you show me that evidence I will believe they exist!!

I will believe that an advanced culture of beings could have existed. I may still ACT as if I believe people who know they didn't exist just to be perceived as normal.

No one doesn't 'know' they didn't exist. I will restate, there is no existing evidence that such cultures existed; that doesn't mean they couldn't have, it also means no also has no evidence that they DIDN'T exist.......

The question remains a ???

Originally posted by owtFsink

sry, given the topic i did not feel that was entirely nessecary
on top of which why does everything need to be labeled?

and yes i did misquote you i was frustrated,
i several times tried to pry your mind away from "nuclear" anything but you wont have it...

No problem, please restate what you're original point was then to clarify the matter

reply to post by Hanslune


THATS GREAT!!! you made your point....
maybe now you can leave the discusiion to people who like to explore something other than your words...boring......
i wasnt trying to make any point i was hoping for an inteliigent conversation...