ponder on this question on perfection

Let me start out by clairfing on perfection, by perfection i mean god, the creator, or what ever name you choose but, what does perfection create ( besides the obvious answer of perfection) i want you to interuptate this how ever you wish! Do you see the creation as a type of heaven or another place like this or what.

reply to post by SpiritWolfPup


when u mean a creator or creation why do u call it perfection? what is the correlation between creations and perfection concept?
when creation as a concept and a fact is an invention and when perfection by definition is absolute fact existence so the opposite sense of terminology references

Originally posted by SpiritWolfPup
Let me start out by clairfing on perfection, by perfection i mean god, the creator, or what ever name you choose but, what does perfection create ( besides the obvious answer of perfection) i want you to interuptate this how ever you wish! Do you see the creation as a type of heaven or another place like this or what.

if by perfection you mean god and creation then all we experience in existence is perfection because it has come to be by creation of the perfect creator

i do believe in a fundamental element of creation and that there must be some perfect pattern to this creation of the universe (flower of life)

in essence perfection is creation, good and bad, harmony is perfection

this world is heaven and it is what you chose to create of it by choosing how you view and perceive it

reply to post by SpiritWolfPup


Dear SpiritWolfPup,

Let us start with the issue that perfection is the answer to. The issue is eternity, how does one solve the question of eternity with an answer that does not result in eternal loneliness or eternal pain or boredom. The answer is eternal growth and that means that perfection is an ever changing process and not a stagnant result. Is it possible that God is like the universe, everything that can be and that we are merely part of what can be for the moment. Perhaps, we continue to evolve and as we do, the universe expands as does God. Peace.

reply to post by absolutely

The creator is just a name some peope call god. i believe god is perfection if you dont believe god is then ill rephrase it for you what do you think god will create after (under the asumption) we go back to god.

reply to post by SpiritWolfPup


again u r repeating the nonsense i explained, the op is about perfection so from which logics are u assuming that perfection could be related to creations? when as i said by definition those are opposite terms, creations are the literal opposite to perfection

if u mean beautiful creations for urself sense, beauty is not perfection in objective term when beauty is by comparasion to what is ugly

why do u call ur op perfection? what is perfect to u? try to justify it in objective terms stop calling it god for the sake of it, u can call god, god since god mean powerful superiority, and if u mean god is perfect, then it is not perfection, bc god is subject perfect to ur sense so it cant b an objective fact

again why do u call ur op perfection?

i guess ill never be able to explain it to you since to me god and perfection are one and the same. its ok though answer it the way you understand it. if you think they arent the same then say its impossible it creates nothing because they arent the same.

reply to post by SpiritWolfPup


obviously creations are but they are subjective to powers wills and positive life

reply to post by SpiritWolfPup


Unfortunately, the Creator cannot be perfect. A perfect being lacks nothing, needs nothing, desires nothing. For a perfect Creator to create anything would automatically strip It of Its perfect nature.

Further, for the Creator to create anything out of a form of matter different than Its own, also removes the attribute of perfection from this being. If a perfect being were to create anything, the creation must also be perfect, and therefore made of the same perfect stuff the perfect Creator is composed of.

Taking that into account, Creation is certainly not perfect. Wars, famine, starvation, disease, old age, decay, death, murder, natural disasters, accidental disasters, and more all populate this place. These are far from blissful circumstances. Life is certainly not paradise.

Now, the most obvious rebuttal to this is that it was man, the Creation, and not God the Creator who caused our world to turn out this way because of sin and disobedience. However, if the Creator is perfect, how can It create anything that is imperfect, disobedient, and sinful, which falls short of Its grace?

If we, as the Creation, are imperfect, then the Creator is also imperfect, and we are mere mirrors of that imperfect nature. I doubt you'd find anyone who is, empirically, perfect. So, the Creator is also imperfect.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by Wandering Scribe

although i dont agree great post. i think that you dont have to need something to want to do something just because

reply to post by SpiritWolfPup


I can agree that imperfect beings can act without cause, or reason. However, a perfect being cannot. Not having a reason for doing something is a sign of entropy, or chaos, not perfection.

The Creator's need to create implies It was dissatisfied, unhappy, or lonely in Its state of being. If the Creator was any of these things, It was imperfect. So, Its arbitrary actions stemmed from an imperfect nature to begin with. As do all spontaneous actions.

Again, just my rationale and line of reasoning.

~ Wandering Scribe

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by SpiritWolfPup

 

Taking that into account, Creation is certainly not perfect. Wars, famine, starvation, disease, old age, decay, death, murder, natural disasters, accidental disasters, and more all populate this place. These are far from blissful circumstances. Life is certainly not paradise.

How would that mean that it isn't perfect? What if the creation was meant to have a good side AND a bad side, that would mean that all of those things would have to be existing in order to be perfect.

reply to post by arpgme


I know that the current duality of the universe is not perfection because innocents can suffer, and innocence can be lost. Perfection allows for no mistakes. The stripping away of innocence, and the suffering of innocents both speak volumes about the lack of perfection in our dualism.

When a child dies of starvation because its parents refuse to feed it, there is no perfection present.
When an innocent bystander is killed by stray bullets from gang warfare perfection is not present.

I do believe that the world needs dichotomies, and dualism to function though. So, if it is not clear yet, I suppose I should also state that I do not believe in perfection.

By needing hate to balance love we offset the perfection of No Emotions.
By needing age and decay to offset the effects of life we remove the perfection of Immortality.
By dying we offset the effects of being born, thus removing any sense of perfection of Non-Being.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by Wandering Scribe

yeah it can its called karma from past lives .

reply to post by SpiritWolfPup


Karma does not work that way. The Doctrine of Karma does not explain why bad things happen to people. Karma is a system of checks-and-balances orchestrated by the Hindu death-god, Yama. In it, Yama measures all of your altruistic and beneficent actions with white stones, and your selfish and malign actions with black stones. If you have too much selfishness then you are reborn into a lower cast, living a harder life. If you are altruistic you are born into a higher life, living an easier life.

No where in the Doctrine of Karma is there any mention that bad things will happen to you in this life, because of bad things you did in another life. That is the same as believing you can elect someone else to pay penance for your own misdeeds. Proclaiming that even though you killed someone with your car, another man—wholly unaware of what you did—deserves to serve your punishment.

That kind of pop-spiritual belief is sickening.

~ Wandering Scribe

Have you met me? There is no "creator" as far as I'm concerned. They wouldn't have taken a chance in creating something like me to rival them.

reply to post by SpiritWolfPup


Perfection recreates the circumstances of its creation.

A perfect circle you could say...because without those initial conditions it would not exist.

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


I think that comes down to semantics, in my eyes. To me, perfection is just a word to describe the absolute "isness" of a moment. Perfect in the dictionary would imply lack of flaws, but who is defining these flaws?

Innocents do suffer but they can also grow stronger from these sufferings, and that is just perfect.
War can kill millions but it can also bring about change for the better (even if it is indirect), and that is just perfect.

Without the descriptions based off of duality (i.e good/bad) then everything merely becomes "is". "This moment is." A war just is. A death just is. Is is perfect. Perfection just is.

Good/bad, it's all just perfect.

Perhaps instead of thinking that "nothing is perfect" we could start thinking that "everything is perfect". Either way, it won't really make a difference.

Perfection is a completely subjective term that has no absolute definition. Therefore to ask if there is perfection, you would have to provide an objective definition of it.

I think all is perfect according to my definition of perfection.

reply to post by smithjustinb

nothing here to me but love is perfect (without flaw)love in itself anyway