Thomas Jefferson, A man of the past who may have seen the future

So very nicely put together. I bet T-Jeff would feel that he had been construed correctly by a lonegurkha with a deft touch.

reply to post by lonegurkha


I know I didn't mean anything against this particular topic. I just thought about the nature of quoting in general, and the value of learning History. Mostly, how valuable it is to view what men in the past have said about the same kind of situations we are now seeing, which can sometimes be misrepresented through quotes out of context. However, this thread has not done that, it simply made me realize something quite obvious that I should have considered before, but did not. I always enjoy when topic can sometimes make you think about something that you might otherwise never really consider.

reply to post by lonegurkha


Instant favorite! Good one op! Couple more for you, sorry if someone already posted,


All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. Thomas Jefferson

"If a law is unjust a man is not only right to disobey it he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.
-Thomas Jefferson

A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong
enough to take everything you have. -Thomas Jefferson

To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father’s has acquired too much in order to spare to others who or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association—the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it. --Thomas Jefferson

Originally posted by Brandon88
reply to post by Kenrichaed

 

Well he did see what religion did to the world during his time. Which is understandable considering he studied history as well and all the past incidents religion had been associated with or played a part in. He just agreed with taking a more scientific approach to how things should be dealt with.

Jefferson was one if the first along with Benjamin Franklin to see the dangers of organised religion and the power
organised religion can have on government.
they both were Deist and did not believe in government under the control of organised religion

Even with the protections of a separation of church and state there still are a large number religious laws on the books.

reply to post by jaggu1432


The full quote is

"Those who will give up a little liberty for a little security, deserve neither and shall lose them both."

Benjamin Franklin

reply to post by lonegurkha

Amazing man with amazing foresight. His instincts were so right for the future of America. I believe he was an advanced soul, like many of your great men, who have been watching over your very spiritually young and troubled country. I believe they are still watching over you all and will see you through much trial and tribulation to where you need to be. Wish we had that wisdom to call on here in Australia.

"Thomas Jefferson, A man of the past who may have seen the future."

Howard Beale, A fictitious lunatic from 1976 who DID see into the future.

This clip is so prophetic is absolutely spooky.

Sorry...double post.

reply to post by lonegurkha


One thing is for sure: if Thomas Jefferson was around today, he would support Ron Paul for president.

reply to post by lonegurkha


Thomas Jefferson has been my biggest hero since I was a child. I even named one of my sons after him, and it has had a profound impact on his nature. My all time favorite Thomas Jefferson quote is :

"I have sworn upon the alter of god eternal hostility towards all forms of tyranny against the minds of man."

Thank You OP, great thread.

reply to post by mossme89


Idk if I'd go that far man...something tells me TJ might want to wipe the entire political slate clean at this point.

Originally posted by baalbuster
reply to post by mossme89

 

Idk if I'd go that far man...something tells me TJ might want to wipe the entire political slate clean at this point.

True. If TJ was around today, I bet he would be labeled a "terrorist" and put on the no fly list.

Funny how things change...

Originally posted by mossme89

Originally posted by baalbuster
reply to post by mossme89

 

Idk if I'd go that far man...something tells me TJ might want to wipe the entire political slate clean at this point.

True. If TJ was around today, I bet he would be labeled a "terrorist" and put on the no fly list.

Funny how things change...

My sentiments exactly

Being a fellow Virginian TJ has always been my favorite President and figure in US History....he understood the dangers of what happens when government becomes too centralized and with that said I believe he wouldn't even recognize this country today and would be appalled at what we've allowed ourselves to become.

Originally posted by lonegurkha

Originally posted by MJZoo
One of my favorite quotes, which I believe was from Jefferson (too lazy to google right now) is something along the lines of "A man who will give up liberty for protection deserves neither."

I think that one is attributed to Ben Franklin.

But thanks for the reply.

Ron Paul quotes Jefferson a lot and he sounds like a pastor when talking about how unpatriotic the system is. Has gotten that rotten way because individuals are not taking a conscience stand against evil. Jefferson may have opposed strong central government, but if there would be none then bedlam (humans are not angels.)

Jefferson was a 100% hypocrite and phony. Read "Burr" by Vidal. Patrick Henry had total contempt for Jefferson when Jefferson ran away from the British instead of defending Virginia. Jefferson invented the dumbwaiter because he was so embarrassed when visitors asked why he owned slaves. Sally Hemings.
Jefferson was highly unpopular after his second term. Due to his total incompetence and idiocy.

Originally posted by Matt1951
Jefferson was a 100% hypocrite and phony. Read "Burr" by Vidal. Patrick Henry had total contempt for Jefferson when Jefferson ran away from the British instead of defending Virginia. Jefferson invented the dumbwaiter because he was so embarrassed when visitors asked why he owned slaves. Sally Hemings.
Jefferson was highly unpopular after his second term. Due to his total incompetence and idiocy.

If you are going to offer up Gore Vidal as some sort of paragon of historical accuracy, then you may as well look to Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure to find out more about historical figures. Burr is a fun read, and Vidal an entertaining writer, but that book is not a history book, it is a novel where Vidal used historical notes to tell his tale. Your first and biggest clue that Burr is a fictional account using historical figures is that it is narrated by a fictional character - Charlie Schuyler.

While by all accounts Jefferson was one of the greatest equivocators of all time, probably giving William Jefferson Clinton a run for his money in that department, citing a book of fiction to support your contention that Jefferson was "100%" hypocrite and phony" is sort of 98% hypocritical and phony.

The first two are not Jefferson quotes. I stopped reading after that.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Vidal's book has a lot of good history in it.
All the facts I listed after mentioning his book, did not come from his book. They are historical fact, not fiction.

Originally posted by Matt1951
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

Vidal's book has a lot of good history in it.
All the facts I listed after mentioning his book, did not come from his book. They are historical fact, not fiction.

You most imprudently led with Vidal, and Vidal is not widely seen as a historian, he is seen, as it should be, as an author.

The "facts" you listed, and certainly the claim that Jefferson was widely seen as incompetent by his second term is conjecture and opinion. There are certainly no Gallup polls to turn to take the pulse of the populace during Jefferson's second administration.

Reifying does not make a thing a fact. If you would like to support your claims to give them a stronger appearance of fact, by all means, please do. Blurting out a brief rant in the form of ad hominem attacks is not generally how "facts" are determined.