Still "Open Season" on Canada's First Nations people?

Originally posted by mwuhi
They are not native, they are not aboriginal, they are not indigenous, they walked over from china. They were not here first. If they own the land as they say then they owe 100 years worth of back property taxes.
They should learn to behave themselves.

Any inclination towards explaining yourself?


And as far as much of the tone of this discussion goes, I'm in Central Ontario and I visit the local First Nations territory on a fairly regular basis. I don't make strange, I'm respectful of their customs and beliefs, and we get along just fine. On the other side of the coin, just because you are FN, doesn't mean you can't be an arse. Folks is folks.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by mwuhi
They are not native, they are not aboriginal, they are not indigenous, they walked over from china. They were not here first. If they own the land as they say then they owe 100 years worth of back property taxes.
They should learn to behave themselves.

Any inclination towards explaining yourself?


And as far as much of the tone of this discussion goes, I'm in Central Ontario and I visit the local First Nations territory on a fairly regular basis. I don't make strange, I'm respectful of their customs and beliefs, and we get along just fine. On the other side of the coin, just because you are FN, doesn't mean you can't be an arse. Folks is folks.

Hahaha, you sir have a good sense of humor!

Originally posted by mwuhi
They are not native, they are not aboriginal, they are not indigenous, they walked over from china. They were not here first. If they own the land as they say then they owe 100 years worth of back property taxes.

They should learn to behave themselves.

As far as I am aware the Native peoples have never claimed to own the land as their philisophy or way of thinking states quite the opposite - When they were offered money for land by settlers they were amused and at the dumbness of such a concept for their belief was that no one owns the land or the air or the water - Sure they were shipped on to reservations but that forced onto them.
How can you walk over from China - It does not make sense

Originally posted by alilonthecheekyside

Originally posted by Aeons
The culture gap isn't negotiated yet, and doesn't look to be anytime soon.

Natives have high crime rates, high suicide, high child abuse, high substance abuse, high domestic violence, high jail presence.

But are generally really nice people. You know, except the ones that threaten to scalp you on the bus.

Hi Aeons, thank you for your interest on this matter, it's appreciated.

Statistics kind of have a way of taking the humanity out of it.

It sure would be tragic if other peoples were pigeonholed as much because of the stats.

What a glorious day it will be when "old ignorances and attitudes" have fallen completely by the way side!

You never solve anything without facts. Sorry that that offends you.

My humanity is fine. Watching you people who refuse to deal in reality screw things up all the time while pretending that you are solving something gets very tiring to watch. Doing anything other than watch is impossible, because you act like untrained attack dogs to prevent anyone with sense from doing anything that you disagree with....which is everything that might work. But at least you get to pow-wow with the corrupt leaders of the tribes while you congratulate yourself on your openness.

Originally posted by artistpoet
How can you walk over from China - It does not make sense

Genetic testing has shown that most of the currently existing North and South American people's are of the same descent as the people in Asia/Mongolia. They came over on the land bridge during the ice ages.

genographic.nationalgeographic.com...

reply to post by mwuhi


That does not give the Canadian government (or any government for that matter) the right to treat them as second-class citizens.

Apparently, minority rights mean little or nothing to you.

You should know better with that little quip (they should learn to behave themselves).

reply to post by Aeons


No need to apologize, I am not offended.

I was speaking in general, for the most part.

FYI - The taking of scalps was something the Indians learned from mercenary bounty hunters. The same goes for wagon-burning. Settlers would set their own wagons on fire rather than let them fall into the hands of the enemy.

All of that happened a very long time ago.

As a species, we are much more civilized now-a-days, aren't we?

Originally posted by Aeons

Originally posted by artistpoet
How can you walk over from China - It does not make sense

Genetic testing has shown that most of the currently existing North and South American people's are of the same descent as the people in Asia/Mongolia. They came over on the land bridge during the ice ages.

genographic.nationalgeographic.com...

Thank you for the info and link - I now follow the thinking on that matter

reply to post by alilonthecheekyside


Our ancestors were not stupider than us. The only difference is the amount of information we have.

Know better do better. Except people now are refusing to know, and actively campaign against it. When knowledge contradicts one's strongly held beliefs, apparently it is knowledge that has to be defended against. Who knew?

Originally posted by artistpoet

Originally posted by Aeons

Originally posted by artistpoet
How can you walk over from China - It does not make sense

Genetic testing has shown that most of the currently existing North and South American people's are of the same descent as the people in Asia/Mongolia. They came over on the land bridge during the ice ages.

genographic.nationalgeographic.com...

Thank you for the info and link - I now follow the thinking on that matter

They taught us about the land bridge in school years before the internet . en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Aeons

Originally posted by alilonthecheekyside

Originally posted by Aeons
The culture gap isn't negotiated yet, and doesn't look to be anytime soon.

Natives have high crime rates, high suicide, high child abuse, high substance abuse, high domestic violence, high jail presence.

But are generally really nice people. You know, except the ones that threaten to scalp you on the bus.

Hi Aeons, thank you for your interest on this matter, it's appreciated.

Statistics kind of have a way of taking the humanity out of it.

It sure would be tragic if other peoples were pigeonholed as much because of the stats.

What a glorious day it will be when "old ignorances and attitudes" have fallen completely by the way side!

Doing anything other than watch is impossible, because you act like untrained attack dogs to prevent anyone with sense from doing anything that you disagree with....which is everything that might work. But at least you get to pow-wow with the corrupt leaders of the tribes while you congratulate yourself on your openness.

edit on 2012/1/8 by Aeons because: (no reason given)

-Attack dogs? You mean as opposed to the trained ones?

-Who exactly are you mad at again???

-I don't know about you, but, I don't ever remember pow-wowing with a corrupt leader. Maybe you should check out The Parliament sessions sometime. It's all right there for your viewing pleasure!

-By "You People", do you mean "Us Bloggers"?
I think Open Forum rocks, don't you?

Originally posted by Aeons
reply to post by alilonthecheekyside

 

Our ancestors were not stupider than us. The only difference is the amount of information we have.

Know better do better. Except people now are refusing to know, and actively campaign against it. When knowledge contradicts one's strongly held beliefs, apparently it is knowledge that has to be defended against. Who knew?

There is a book out - it is called "The deliberate dumbing down of America"

"Description
The revised and abridged edition of the deliberate dumbing down of america is the updated and smaller version of Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt's original, now out of print, masterpiece about the American education system. This revised and abridged edition is Internet interactive and allows you to access the abridged material online. Most importantly, it includes a new "Update" chapter which covers the long-planned institutionalization of three new activities that have occurred since the publication of the original book in 1999.

Author Charlotte Iserbyt is the ultimate whistle blower. As former Senior Policy Advisor in the U.S. Department of Education, she blew the whistle in the `80s on government activities withheld from the public. Her inside knowledge will help you protect your children from controversial educational methods and programs......."

Originally posted by watchdog8110

Originally posted by artistpoet

Originally posted by Aeons

Originally posted by artistpoet
How can you walk over from China - It does not make sense

Genetic testing has shown that most of the currently existing North and South American people's are of the same descent as the people in Asia/Mongolia. They came over on the land bridge during the ice ages.

genographic.nationalgeographic.com...

Thank you for the info and link - I now follow the thinking on that matter

They taught us about the land bridge in school years before the internet . en.wikipedia.org...

Just to complicate matters further...some current thinking puts the timing of the land bridge in dispute. Plus the ages of South American sites...not to mention pre-clovis in North America... throw a lot of the old thinking out the window. I only just learned that Clovis technology spread north and south from the US. That puts yet another twist on things. We are still a long ways towards sorting it all out.

But never mind the deep past...we have recent past, present and future to sort out, as far as our relationships go with our First Nations.

For the sake of the debate , some old treaties still have yet to be settled . Some don't even want to come to a negotiating table to settle it once and for all . So throw on more to the pile of unfinished business .

There is a city in Canada that thought they had a signed , sealed and delivered deal . Nope , renegotiate time for more land and or cash . Some deep seeded dislikes getting the issues of the present messed with the past issues .

Go figure , holding onto old grudges is the best remedy of payback for some .

Originally posted by watchdog8110
For the sake of the debate , some old treaties still have yet to be settled . Some don't even want to come to a negotiating table to settle it once and for all . So throw on more to the pile of unfinished business .

Seems to me that the Liberals had pounded out an agreement with the Provinces and the FN...then Steve tossed it all out upon his proclamation. Not just the FN that have trouble negotiating.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by watchdog8110
For the sake of the debate , some old treaties still have yet to be settled . Some don't even want to come to a negotiating table to settle it once and for all . So throw on more to the pile of unfinished business .

Seems to me that the Liberals had pounded out an agreement with the Provinces and the FN...then Steve tossed it all out upon his proclamation. Not just the FN that have trouble negotiating.

Both sides you just have to wonder about . East / West , North / South . Gawddddddddddd
Transfer payments , English / French , Separation .

reply to post by Aeons


Yeah... We don't really like to talk about the whole scalping thing...

No, but really, I would love to see just a huge peice of land donated so they could build a centre for themselves, but right now, they are just scattered throughout Canada.

Originally posted by tribaltrip
reply to post by Aeons

 

Yeah... We don't really like to talk about the whole scalping thing...

No, but really, I would love to see just a huge peice of land donated so they could build a centre for themselves, but right now, they are just scattered throughout Canada.

I for one would like to live in a world where the land water and air was under the guardianship of Humanity for the common good - Who are these interlopers these self agrandised elite - they are corrupt and base and serve as an example of how not to be - Humanity is better than this

Originally posted by tribaltrip
reply to post by Aeons

 

Yeah... We don't really like to talk about the whole scalping thing...

No, but really, I would love to see just a huge peice of land donated so they could build a centre for themselves, but right now, they are just scattered throughout Canada.

Um...I think scattered through Canada is probably an ok thing. I'd venture to guess that they are not looking for the 'good old days' of buffalo hunts and living in longhouses. There's a balance between partying like it's 1499, and 'having the Indian beaten out of them.' Let's try for that.

Originally posted by alilonthecheekyside
Doing anything other than watch is impossible, because you act like untrained attack dogs to prevent anyone with sense from doing anything that you disagree with....which is everything that might work. But at least you get to pow-wow with the corrupt leaders of the tribes while you congratulate yourself on your openness.

edit on 2012/1/8 by Aeons because: (no reason given)

-Attack dogs? You mean as opposed to the trained ones?

-Who exactly are you mad at again???

-I don't know about you, but, I don't ever remember pow-wowing with a corrupt leader. Maybe you should check out The Parliament sessions sometime. It's all right there for your viewing pleasure!

-By "You People", do you mean "Us Bloggers"?
I think Open Forum rocks, don't you?

edit on 8-1-2012 by alilonthecheekyside because: (no reason given)

If you were trained attack dogs then to be doing what is happening you'd have to hate Natives. So, I assume you're untrained and just attack things for almost no reason.

I'm very annoyed at the tribal councils and their left wing defenders who are blinded by victimhood and romantic notations of the noble savage.

Left wingers and those who defend the corruption of the tribal councils often blather on about how they've been to the sweat lodge and gotten an eagle feather and so they "get" it.

And by you people, I mean the ones who dislike facts because you think facts and humanity are not the same thing. It is nonsense.

I do like the open forum. Isn't it great? Allows me to beat on people who otherwise hide behind PC nonsense.