It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


British East India Company Research Project

page: 1

log in


posted on Sep, 9 2004 @ 01:31 PM
Draft guidelines-

That “John company” fits virtually all of the generally accepted criteria for a world-order (NWO), except possibly (and this is a major problem) its present or future existence. Not most criteria or some criteria but almost all the criteria, must be met to declare John company as the (or one of the) beast(s).

Define world-order (NWO) sufficiently detailed to provide a recognizable goal, many groups and sacred-cows will be exposed or slaughtered during this search.
Theories and beliefs regarding racism, nationhood, heroes and villains are all subject to dissection, conflicting information may not be easily or completely resolved.
Conclusions may be wrong or imperfect, present information regarding any progeny of John company may not exist, plans for the future of John company may be non-existent.
John company may no longer exist and have no progeny.
“Fingers” may point to people or groups the researcher(s) can not or will not accept have or could have had negative aspirations and therefore any negative consequences are coincidental disagreements, regarding preliminary and final conclusions longevity of project world events, past and present personal bias.

virtually every known fact and theory available to the general public (without subscription) regarding the British East India Company (aka John company) on the Internet or from any source that can be shared with others.

Team Members-
PublicGadfly - TL
Loki -
Earthscum -
NuTroll -

[edit on 20-9-2004 by ADVISOR]

posted on Sep, 9 2004 @ 05:28 PM
John company

The British East India company

NOTICE of research project

The New World Order, global conspiracy, the U.N., Bilderbergs and the
rest all have one thing in common with John company- control.
Began in 1600, has the company ceased to exist?

The company seemed to have at least one hand in a majority of the
world conflicts of the time. The American revolutionary war was touched
by the company, as were the American Civil War, the Chinese Opium wars
and the seemingly countless wars in India, Afghanistan, Persia, Iran,
Iraq, Malaysia, Indonesia, Australia as well as many others. The list
encompasses virtually every conflict on earth for 300+ years.

Three hundred years-that is a very long time for a small group of
people to suck resources from the entire planet! In the beginning, the
Hanse lost power and eventually disappeared, various secret societies
formed, changed, and also disappeared. All could tie into “the
” or none could. History holds the keys.


That “the company” still exists and has ipso facto existed since
its inception.

A simple premise in name only.

Much of what the company did, or tried to do, is lost to history or
conveyed to us as glorious feats of daring-do. Texas Independence, the
Mexican War... Was WW I or II, Korea or Viet Nam a result of
company actions? The seemingly endless Central American
revolutions, Middle-eastern turmoil, Crimean War, famines and millions
of deaths- are they a result of the company's work?

Nazism, Fascism, Communism, assassinations, coup's, revolutions from the
American colonies to Russia and beyond, all become even more suspect
when the actions of the company enter the equations. From
"reptilian beings", to piracy, slavery and prostitution, corruption and
bribery, royalty and the commons in country after country, buried
treasure and poison gas, bacteriological warfare and disappearing
opponents, and more, have been laid at the foot of “John company” over
the centuries.

It has been said that the British Empire was built on the back of the
company, could the opposite be true?


A limited number of spaces are available for you to join in this
search for the present John company. Team members
from Asia, Africa and the Pacific are sought. To apply send a U2U.

NOT for the faint of heart!

[edit on 9/9/2004 by PublicGadfly]

[edit on 17/11/2004 by PublicGadfly]

posted on Sep, 10 2004 @ 05:14 AM
Before John company there was what? Where did the East India company come from?

In it's early days this wasn't questioned. A group of merchants had with the King of England and received a charter for trade and mercantile pursuits. Just a group of merchants and businessmen it seems.

This is the beginning of the myth. Just a business.

The Spanish Armada had failed a scarce twelve years previously, the Dutch ruled the spice islands in the south Pacific and England had no resources that anyone wanted in substantial quantity.

Most histories of the company tend to jump into the 1700s rather quickly as though nothing of importance happened for 100 years. While nature abhors a vacuum mankind will not tolerate one.

Europe was a collection states, not dissimilar to that of today (2004). The Ottoman Empire ruled all the middle-east, southeastern Europe, the northern (Mediterranean) coast of Africa and most important of all controlled most trade routes from India, the south Pacific and China.

England lay on the edge of trade. While England held part of Ireland and a portion of Scotland the holding in Europe that had made England a formidable power were gone and had joined France.

England had perhaps the premier navy of the day. All England needed was a reason to exist. The British East India Company provided that reason. Trade and the control of trade. A monopoly of all things.

1577-80, Sir Frances Drake circumnavigated the globe. He plundered Spanish bases during the voyage bringing back wealth and knowledge of the “great beyond.”

This voyage seems to have begun the English interest in overseas riches outside the continental area of Europe.

This web site is an outline presentation of Sir Frances where the author relates much that is known about Drake and the beginnings of England's Asia/Pacific connections.

A previous English trading venture, that to Russia in 1553 led to much interest in exploring trade even though the initial voyages were poorly received.
    “The poor is very innumerable, and live most miserably: for I have seen them eat the pickle of herring and other stinking fish: nor the fish cannot be so stinking nor rotten, but they will eat it and praise it to be more wholesome than other fish or fresh meat. In mine opinion there be no such people under the sun for their hardness of living."
    Richard Chancellor on the Muscovites (1553)

An overview of English trade during this point in history (1497- 1608) covering the period prior to and during the first years of the British East Indies company shows the tendency of the English to focus on continental (Europe) and north American trade.
Drake's voyage brought such news of possibilities that interest in other trade was assured. Robert Fitch published his account of the Indies (south Pacific) in 1598. The result of these accounts (Drake and Fitch) along with those of minor traders and travelers fueled English interest in the East Indies.
(*note- English and not British at this point in history)
Monopoly trade pacts had been granted for the Russian trade, much of the Mediterranean trade, Newfoundland and Virginia in northern America.
- - - -field notes
Sources sought-
    trade stations in England including post-Hanse 'factories'
    background on initial East India company founders

The East India company information is fairly diverse considering the centuries of its existence.
Google- on an initial search list over 2 million links! Many of these are either the same pages or repetitive.
Most information covers the 'middle period' of John company's existence.
Impact of in-depth contact with foreign cultures looks promising. English portion of society so affected still unclear.

[edit on 10/9/2004 by PublicGadfly]

[edit on 14/9/2004 by PublicGadfly]

posted on Sep, 10 2004 @ 02:33 PM
I don't know about that...

They aren't even in existence anymore, are they?

I'm going off on a tangent. I honestly think that We should be looking at companies like Haliburton, Wal-Mart, Microsoft, or something similarly large.

I don't think that the british east india company holds enough water, but I'll do some research and get back to you.

posted on Sep, 10 2004 @ 07:51 PM
First of all, Thanks a bunch, PublicGadfly, for inviting me to participate in this project. When this idea about the British East India Company was presented to me, something 'clicked'. I remembered just sparse bits about it from way back in school, and my countless hours spent roaming our county public library. The imensity of the British East India Company, aka "John Company" or 'The Company", as it will be commonly referred to here, is the first thing that came to mind. What we were taught in school is just the typical 'textbook' history that most people probably know.

So, to start off with, I decided to refresh my memory with the typical history of the company. Wikipedia has, in my opinion, one of the better histories of the company. It's easy to understand, full of info, and easy for someone just learning about it to understand.

The end

The efforts of the company in administering India emerged as a model for the civil service system in Britain, especially during the 19th century. Deprived of its trade monopoly in 1813, the company wound up as a trading enterprise. In 1858 the Company lost its administrative functions to the British government following the Sepoy Mutiny of the preceding year, and India became a formal crown colony. In the early 1860s all of the Company's Indian possessions were appropriated by the Crown. The Company was still managing tea trade on behalf of the British government (especially to Saint Helena). Left with such commercial operations for the remainder of its existence, it continued to maintain a trading office in London as of 2004. When the Company was dissolved in 1874, The Times reported, "It accomplished a work such as in the whole history of the human race no other company ever attempted and as such is ever likely to attempt in the years to come."

"it continued to maintain a trading office in London as of 2004."

Kinda raises an eyebrow, doesn't it? I don't know about you, but this is the first time I've learned of this, and from a public, and widely used site. I will be looking into this trading office, and it's dealings a bit further in our exploration.

Before I delve too far, I suppose I should pull some definitions of NWO, or the "New World Order" from the internet:
The term New World Order (NWO) has been used by numerous politicians through the ages, and is a generic term used to refer to a worldwide conspiracy being orchestrated by an extremely powerful and influential group of genetically-related individuals (at least at the highest echelons) which include many of the world's wealthiest people, top political leaders, and corporate elite, as well as members of the so-called Black Nobility of Europe (dominated by the British Crown) whose goal is to create a One World (fascist) Government, stripped of nationalistic and regional boundaries, that is obedient to their agenda.
The term New World Order refers to a belief or conspiracy theory among apocalyptic religious and political extremist groups, especially in the United States, that the United Nations has created a secret plan, known as the New World Order (NWO), to rule the world via a totalitarian socialist world government.

That last one seems a bit biased, but I am American after all. Just a small reminder for me to step outside the 'box' a bit for this project.

Well, as you can see, we have a good beginning. There are many definitions of 'New World Order', including the common political definitions:
The term New World Order has been used several times in recent history, referring to what appeared to be a dramatic change in world political thought and the balance of power.
President George Bush made the concept of our "New World Order" popular. He defined this new and different World Order as the accumulated set of precedents that he was setting in his own Presidency in the area of foreign affairs.

This last one is a must read. It does an excellent job of illustrating just how broad the definitions are. We will also tackle this definition a bit more as we delve deeper into our research.

*EDIT: Missplaced end quote... was wrapping my sig in with the quote.

[edit on 10-9-2004 by Earthscum]

posted on Sep, 10 2004 @ 07:52 PM
Pardon- in my exuberance of some data Earthscum shared I forgot to state:
Thank you to those nameless souls that pointed ""Mr.Earthscum"" to this project. I will, as other where stated protect your anonymity.

Yet another thank you- to those that sent 'Loki' to this project.

As his namesake of old, "Mr. Loki" stirs the pot!!!

Welcome aboard NuTroll.

I see from your initial post that 'money and banking' are in for some revelations.

Where did the East India company come from?

The early part (1600 – 1750) is too scant at the moment. I'll have to come back to it after a few real life library visits.

Looks like the Boston Tea party was involved because of John company.
-circa 1773:

November 27, 1773, three ships loaded with such tea landed at Boston and were prevented from unloading their cargo. Fearing that the tea would be seized for failure to pay customs duties, and eventually become available for sale, Adams and the Boston Whigs arranged a solution. On the night of 16DEC73, a group of colonists, thinly disguised as Mohawk Indians, snuck aboard the ships and dumped 342 chests of tea in to Boston Harbor.
Worcester Polytechnic Institute

Semi-official U.S. perception of the events may or may not be contested by others. There is one underlying statement by most authors-
The tea belonged to “John company.”
(will edit later to add a Google list- Google is inaccessible for me at this time)

Initially, however, it made little impression on the Dutch control of the Spice trade and could not establish a lasting outpost in the East Indies in the early years. Yet it succeeded beyond measure in establishing military dominance and a political empire for Britain in the East, gaining strongholds in the 17th century in Surat, Bombay (1668), Madras (1639) and Calcutta.
In 1711, the Company established a trading post in Canton (Guangzhou), in China to trade tea for silver.
In 1757 Robert Clive led company forces to victory at the Battle of Plassey during the Seven Years' War. This victory achieved British supremacy over the French on the Indian subcontinent and allowed the company to take effective control of Bengal, India's most populous and lucrative province.
In the 1770's, British attempts to extend the Company's monopoly on tea to the American colonies lead to the Boston Tea Party and was one of the factors leading the American Revolution.
In the years 1775-1783 North America gained independence from Great Britain, imperial focus was brought across the globe to India where it was the center of colonial interest for the first time. The Eastern British armies at home swelled as did those of the East India company.

This article is from Wikipedia

As can be seen from this partial listing “John company” was not enormously powerful the 1700's. One more reason to come back to the early years

Drugs and drug traffiking played a dynamic role in human events. Many people seem to be of the belief this is a modern plague. As can be seen from this (
PBS and WGBH/Frontline
) site drugs have been with mankind since the or near the beginning of world history. An ATS thread briefly discussed the 'what if':
“the Tree of Knowledge was really allegorical to a drug.”


The tree of knowledge in my mind, is the equivelant of our modern day "drugs" like mushrooms

So drugs have been a part of the human psyche, thought and use from somewhere near the beginning of recorded history- or earlier.

More information on this aspect will be presented as it is developed.
Alexa search shows a little over 110,00 links to Opium War. This is a fair amount of hits for a particular set of historical events. I am in the process of threshing through the links.

[edit on 10/9/2004 by PublicGadfly]

[edit on 15/9/2004 by PublicGadfly]

[edit on 20/9/2004 by PublicGadfly]

posted on Sep, 10 2004 @ 08:36 PM
The British East India Company assumes control of Bengal and Bihar, opium-growing districts of India. British shipping dominates the opium trade out of Calcutta to China.


The British East India Company's import of opium to China reaches a staggering two thousand chests of opium per year.

The British East India Company establishes a monopoly on the opium trade. All poppy growers in India were forbidden to sell opium to competitor trading companies.

Two Thousand Chests a year!!!

To understand how big that is, you have to understand a bit about Opium harvesting:
After the petals fall from the poppy, the pod, which is about the size of a golf ball, is lanced, and the opium latex is exuded.
Poppies are lanced in the afternoonand the latex is scraped off the next morning. Peasants hope for calm, dry days during lancing season. Rain washes the latex off the pod, while friction of pods in the wind rubs the latex off . Pods ripen (soften) at different times in the field. Each pod can be lanced from 4 to 7 times. The lancing takes a great deal of time and attention.
One-tenth of a hectare produces small amounts of latex.
Remember yields in India are 35-60 kgs per ha, with peasants struck off cultivation rolls if they produce less than 34:

I urge people to read this site in full to be able to get a full impact of just how small yields really are.

Also, one must remember: this is JUST the opium. I may expand on this trade later in the project if it becomes necessary. It seems that the company didn't deal in small quantities, thus the purported MONOPOLY.

The company had their hands in alot of merchandise, including textiles, spices, raw materials, among a vast list of others... and lets not forget the most popular one being TEA! This wasn't just a couple ships making a cruise to India a couple times a year. This was an open route, with MANY ships transporting goods ON A CONSTANT BASIS! So much, in fact, that the company needed it's own military just to protect the ships enroute to and from India to protect from such threats as piracy!

Are you getting a good idea of the size of the operation? Unless you've studied this endeavor in depth, I'd say most likely not. It is truely mind bending!

posted on Sep, 10 2004 @ 09:39 PM
*EDIT: Mispost trying to edit

[edit on 10-9-2004 by Earthscum]

posted on Sep, 11 2004 @ 12:00 AM
Religious zeal (some call it zealotry) helped John Company's various activities develop with wide support from the home government (Britain)

some selected passages . . .
International Bulletin of Missionary Research; 7/1/1999; Smith, A. Christopher
The Baptist mission in Calcutta, India can trace its roots back to the missionary work of William Carey and his colleagues William Ward and Joshua and Hannah Marshman. Carey was an Englishman who reached Bengal in 1793 and was responsible for the establishment of a Baptist mission in Serampore. Ward, on the other hand, ventured into missionary work because of the Savior's command written in Matthew 28:18-20. The Marshman couple got their start in missionary work under the auspices of the Baptist Missionary Society when they were sent to Bengal in 1799.

. . .
During the next six months, Ward developed good relations with Baptist churches in the Midlands and with BMS leaders such as Fuller and Samuel Pearce. In May 1799 he was "set apart to the work of a Christian Missionary" in the Baptist church of Olney, which had featured significantly in Carey's ministerial formation. At that memorable service, he declared that it was not because of some "new revelation" that he was prepared to serve the Lord overseas, nor did he need one. Rather, it was because of the Redeemer's command in Matthew 28:18-20 that he now ventured forth.

In May 1799 Ward testified that he was ready to leave his homeland for India, counting his life as nothing for the sake of the Gospel (Acts 20:24). His peers were of much the same mind. During their long voyage out on the American ship, they read much. Ward wrote tellingly in his journal: "Thank you, ye Moravians: you have done me good. If I am ever a missionary worth a straw, I shall owe it to you under our Saviour."

(time went on with the missionary effort)

In 1820 Ward and his partners noted that "the Hindoos themselves, amidst very much which is positively evil, have precepts in their books which a Christian would not be dishonoured by observing"; yet they were rather pessimistic about the possibility of making much use of such potential points of contact. This tone is apparent in their dispatches back to Britain, in which confrontation in a crusading mode continued to dominate the missionary agenda, in spite of vows to avoid controversial language when preaching the Gospel. This combativeness appears in Ward's forthright Account of the Writings, Religion, and Manners of the Hindoos (1811), which was "approved by his two elder colleagues" and by some outspoken evangelical Dissenters. But Ward was by no means an undiscriminating iconoclast. Witness the public recommendation he made in 1818 for setting up a museum-like pantheon of Hindu images and sculptured monuments in London, England!
But 1823 signified the end for Ward. He had just begun writing a treatise on the character of a Christian missionary when his life was cut short.
(as happened all too often in the service of John Company even the good died much too soon.)
biblio of the religious movement to date- Sept. 10, 2004
Ward's History, Literature, and Mythology of the Hindoos- five editions and a number of reprints, under various titles, between 1806 and 1863, in both India and Britain. His Farewell Letters to a Few Friends in Britain and America on Returning to Bengal in 1821 went through several editions (in London) in 1821.
Samuel Stennet, Memoirs of the Life of the Rev. William Ward, 2d ed. (1825). For an illuminating study of Ward's life before he became a missionary, see A. Christopher Smith, "William Ward, Radical Reform, and Missions in the 1790s," American Baptist Quarterly 10 (1991): 218-44.
Marshman's letters, papers, and publications are in the archives of the Baptist Missionary Society, housed in Regent's Park College, Oxford, England. Hints Relative to Native Schools (1816), Thoughts on Propagating Christianity More Effectually Among the Heathen (1827), and Brief Memoir Relative to the Operations of the Serampore Missionaries, Bengal (1827).

There is much more data. This is preliminary regarding this vital aspect, often overlooked by historians, of John Company.
Another, later period of missionary viewpoints is provided here only to demonstrate that missionaries played a vital role in “The Company's” efforts.

The Historian; 3/22/2001; HARNETTY, PETER
The visit of Pope John Paul II to India in November 1999 brought to international attention an issue that has disturbed Indians and other Asians almost from the beginning of the Western contact: religious conversion. In a major address, the pope boldly declared the evangelization of Asia to be one of his Church's top priorities for the next millennium, a prospect that found little favor with Indian religious leaders. The moderate Hindu leader Shankaracharya Madhavananda Saraswati, though welcoming the pope personally, expressed misgivings about Christian evangelization, and prominent Buddhists and members of the Jain religion shared his skepticism. Hindu fundamentalists accused Christian missionaries--most active in poor rural and tribal areas--of preying on the most susceptible in Indian society and "buying" their souls with education, medical aid, and economic assistance. Equating conversion with colonialism, they claimed missionaries were "enslaving the country once again" and accused them of deceit in their quest for converts. Even Mahatma Gandhi, while appreciative of missionaries' zeal and self-sacrifice, had opposed the political aspect of the missionary effort because of its association with the foreign government. If he had the power, Gandhi said in 1935, he would certainly legislate to stop all proselytizing.
. . . .
Higginbottom assumed that similar conditions prevailed all over the country and concluded, "a conservative estimate for the whole of India would be ten per cent. which means thirty-two millions, or many more deaths than the total casualties on all the battle fronts during all the years of the great war.
(WW I)
(by 1942)
The result has been a rise in the number of clashes between Christian missionary organizations and Hindus who oppose their activities; in some cases the authorities have attempted to proscribe missionary activity altogether. At a deeper level, the conflict between the urge to spread the Christian gospel and the resentment such efforts provoke reflects the contrast between Western values and those of India. In the West, freedom of religion is a fundamental value and conversion from one religion to another an ancillary right. But the doctrine of the monopoly of truth and revelation implied in this concept is alien to the Hindu mind. For most Hindus the Western view was encapsulated in the famous Christian hymn, "From Greenland's Icy Mountains," composed by an Anglican bishop of Calcutta in the early nineteenth century, with its call to deliver India (and other benighted lands) "from error's chain." Whether from early nineteenth-century Anglican bishop or late twentieth-century Catholic pope, such sentiments continue to be viewed by Hindus as they once were by Mahatma Gandhi: "a clear libel on Indian humanity.
biblio for this section:
New York Times, 8 November 1999, A3; India and the Pope: Preachers and Souls,

Deploring Conversions, Harijan, 22 March 1935, in Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi, vol. 60 (Delhi, 1974), 327; Interview to a Missionary Nurse, May 1935, in Collected Works, vol. 61 (1975), 46; Letter to Rev. B. W. Tucker, an American missionary, 4 July 1928, in Collected Works, vol. 37 (1970), 18.

India's Famine Spreading, Christian Herald, 22 January 1919, 90; and 8 February 1919, 141.

Internet sources:
InfoPlease British East India Company

Company rule until 1857. 100 years of John Company's exploits(abbreviated)
The railroads did not break down the social or cultural distances between various groups but tended to create new categories in travel. Separate compartments in the trains were reserved exclusively for the ruling class, separating the educated and wealthy from ordinary people. Similarly, when the Sepoy Rebellion was quelled in 1858, a British official exclaimed that "the telegraph saved India." He envisaged, of course, that British interests in India would continue indefinitely. (Nationmaster)

posted on Sep, 12 2004 @ 06:25 AM
The search for “John” (John Company/British East Indies Company) is leading into avenues so strange as to appear as though some rabbit were leading the way in “wonderland.”

The Knights of Malta are the decedents of the knights Hospitaller
    “After the fall of Malta and the murder of the Czar, the Sovereign Order fell
    apart. One large fragment, usually considered the legitimate successor of
    the old Order, became very closely integrated with the Papacy; this is "SMOM",
    the powerful and wealthy organization which performs charitable works around
    the globe, is recognized as a sovereign state by many governments, and is
    sometimes depicted in the press as representing the conservative-aristocratic
    wing of Roman Catholicism.”

This is just a part of the St. John Alliance- which are located in USA, Germany, South Africa, Poland,
Leading to such strange tid-bits as the Beatle's ex-singer John Lennon having a wall named after him in previous Czechoslovakia!
    ”In 1998, the local "John Lennon Peace Club" and the restituted owners of the wall -- a religious order dating from the 11th century called the Knights of the Maltese Cross -- worked together to reconstruct its crumbling facade. There has been much criticism of the work. The stone recess that had formed Lennon's original mock grave was covered by a larger cement "tombstone" with the painted words: "John Winston Lennon: October 9 1940 - Dec. 8, 1980." The wall's original plaster, which was being picked off in chunks by souvenir-hunting tourists, was replaced by a solid white surface, and a "happening" was organized where young Czechs and western backpackers added new messages -- none of them as powerful as the scrawlings of dissidents in the days of neo-Stalinism. “

from Bagism (above) site. A fine short article on freedom of speech being controlled by its sponsors- the Maltese Church!

Back to the main chase for information. The side-trips seem to multiply at every step. There is information upon information- the web grows exponentially. I'm not ready at the present to post the root of these tie-ins. While the web of John Company's contacts reaches far and wide some of the roots are still controversial and subject to much discord. This has the potential of being counter productive thus necessitating further information.

The Company traded far and wide with nations many would not imagine: Armenia in 1698 signed on with The Company.( wen services)


    Between the Governor and Company
    of Merchants of London trading to the East Indies, and the Armenian Nation,

    Dated 22nd June 1688

    First. – That the Armenian
    nation shall now, and at all times hereafter, have equal share and benefit of
    all indulgencies this Company have or shall at any time hereafter grant to any
    of their own adventurers or other English merchants whatsoever

    . . . (list of goods and fees to be paid)

    And it is hereby declared
    that the Company have liberty to detain and keep in their possession all such
    goods as shall be consigned unto them as aforesaid, until they have shipped
    them off upon English shipping, bound to Turkey, Venice or Leghorn and taken
    security that they shall not be landed in any other ports or places of Europe
    except the place to which they shall be directed by the said Armenian proprietors
    or their agents.”

    Signed by BENJAMIN BATHURST, Governor

    JOSIAH CHILD, Deputy Governor


    John Morre,

    George Boun
    - - -
      Lord Bathurst being an English Lord, a descendant of William the Conqueror? He held the office of Governor of the East India Company in 1688/89.
      He held the office of Cofferer to Princess Anne of Denmark.
      He held the office of M.P.
      He lived at Paulersbury, Northamptonshire, England.

      As listed at the Peerage
      Sir Josiah Child, “Bt. was born before 1651.
      He married, secondly, Mary Atwood, daughter of William Atwood.
      He was a merchant at Wanstead, Essex, England.
      He gained the title of Baronet Child, of Wanstead, Essex.
      He held the office of Governor of the East India Company.”
      also from the Peerage.

    Neither Morre nor Boun are listed at “” so further search for them

      ”JOHN MORRE of Glantraugh lieutenant of K Santon in ye yeare 1651,
      sworn & examined sayth That hee was at Raynoldsway when ye
      countrey were there in Armes, & yt hee heard say
      amongst ye company, that the meetinge was to bee against the Lady
      viz. ye Countesse dowager Derby & yt hee stayed there amongst
      them whilst they so continued.” seems to point to Mr. Morre as being a soldier- now whether this is the same Morre or not I can't determine at this moment. The Manx Rebellion document at the aforesaid URL is the source for this lead.

      From 'roots web' it appears that the names Bourne and Boun (with no “e”) can be used interchangeably at least within this family tree. Mr. Boun does not appear within either of the peerage listings, this is a little perplexing at the present- he goes on a thumb tack to a 'real' cork board at the present. An interesting addendum in Google cache pages shows appendix 3 and 4 to the Armenian Agreement with a list of questions The Company asked of Calcutta Armenians. Without getting lost down yet another trail a brief Google search finally able to utilize again shows an Armenian Diaspora to Calcutta. This also goes on a thumb tack.

    Sabrizan Reformasi, under a Malaysia listing The web page is some kind of redirect Java script and not possible to do a 'select-copy.' A brief 'text-save' of a portion of the site pages illustrates the general history of The Company from Sabrizon's perspective:
      ”The EIC arose from a grouping of London merchants, ordinary city tradesmen and aldermen who were prepared to take a gamble in buying a few ships and filling them with cargo to sell in the East. At the end of the voyage, after the return cargo was sold, the profits would be shared amongst the share holders. This system was known as "joint-stock". Huge profits were made from the initial and difficult voyages to Southeast Asia, mainly from the sale of pepper acquired from the Sumatran and Javanese trading ports and sold in London. Soon, the EIC was building more and bigger ships and increasing the number of shareholders. The company was formed to share in the East Indian spice trade. This trade had been a monopoly of Spain and Portugal until the defeat of the Spanish Armada (1588) by England gave the English the chance to break the monopoly. Until 1612 the company conducted separate voyages, separately subscribed. There were temporary joint stocks until 1657, when a permanent joint stock was raised. The company met with opposition from the Dutch in the Dutch East Indies (now Indonesia) and the Portuguese. The VOC's policy was a monopoly on trade in spices, pepper and other commodities in the region., The Dutch virtually excluded company members from the East Indies after the Amboina Massacre in 1623 in which English, Japanese, and Portuguese traders were executed by Dutch authorities. After the massacre, and owing to the high costs of financing its voyages to the archipelago, the EIC turned its attention to India where it already had a factory at Surat. At that time, Surat was the main port of trade between India and Europe. Although the EIC turned to India, it did not completely withdraw from the Malay archipelago. It kept its factory at Bencoolen on the west of coast of Sumatra. At this time, the Indian market became more attractive for English goods. but the company's defeat of the Portuguese in India (1612) won them trading concessions from the Moghul Empire “

    It is necessary to point out to the reader that a 'stock-company' is the most hungry beast of business. Lloyds Of London, the famous insurer, is a stock-company. Profit above all else is the motivator to stock-companies. Also known as joint-stock companies a simplistic definition is provide from “”

    Without getting off into a dissertation of business types suffice it to state that The Company was solely profit motivated.

    The East Indies, also known as the Dutch East Indies were a vast source of trade goods. Profits were enormous. Early adventure into the East Indies led to disaster for The Company.

      Britannica on line gives an overview of the Amboina massacre- “execution that took place in Amboina (now Ambon, Indon.) in 1623, when 10 Englishmen, 10 Japanese, and one Portuguese were put to death by local Dutch authorities. The incident ended any hope of Anglo-Dutch cooperation in the area, a goal that both governments had been pursuing for several years, and marked the beginning of Dutch ascendancy in the Indies.”

    Clearly the Dutch had beaten all of Europe ( site) but for the Spanish and Portuguese to the East Indies. By 1598 the Dutch were active traders in these spice islands. This was a scarce two years prior to The Company gaining a Royal Charter (1600). In 1602 the Dutch formed their own Indies Company. This is believed to be the first stock company. Personally, without going in The Hanse histories, I would be more willing to believe that The Hanse was the torch bearer – even though made up of various combinations of groups.

      Volume 1 of Reason in common sense? “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”Santayana, 1905, American philosopher

      From an old movie seen in the late 50s, ( King of the Khyber Rifles ”1930s leading man Tyrone Power plays a half-caste British officer stationed in India. Of mixed heritage, Power struggles to earn the respect of his fellow soldiers and Indians. Power, however, is up to the task on both the field of battle and the field of love, as he proves loyal to the crown on the former and willing to buck convention in the latter. He falls in love with his superior officer's daughter, Terry Moore. This remake of John Ford's "The Black Watch" (1929) boasts exciting action and fighting scenes that surpass those of the original.”

    I wondered why anyone, mush less the British Empire would possibly be interested in such a forlorn place. I can't claim to have found out as yet, but the road seems full of information and detours.

        Suckled were we in a school unkind
        On suddenly snatched deduction,
        And ever ahead of you (never behind!)
        Over the border our tracks you'll find,
        Wherever some idiot feels inclined
        To scatter the seeds of ruction.
        For eyes we be, of Empire, we!
        Skinned and puckered and quick to see!
        And nobody guesses how wise we be,
        Unwilling to advertise we be.
        But, hot on the trail of lies, we be
        The pullers of roots of ruction!

        --SONG OF THE INDIAN SECRET SERVICE Litrix Reading Room

    This is enough for the present-
    the Americas beckon as does Africa and South America. Armenia was a real surprise. Again, another tack on the cork board for later pursuit. The Company is gradually coming to light although I must admit the tentacles reach far further than I had thought for many years.

    I believe and, since the above viewed movie, have believed that whomever held such (as the wastes of India) to any importance would never want to let it go. I suspect that the Dutch will pay dearly in later history for the above referenced Amboina action. Memory of lost wealth and not vengeance motivate greed.

posted on Sep, 15 2004 @ 01:22 AM
Funding, possibly maintained to present day.

And be it further enacted by the authority aforesaid, That the said governor- general and council, or the major part of them, shall have, and they are hereby authorised to have, power of superintending and countroling the government and management of the presidencies of Madras, Bombay, and Bencoolen respectively.

Taken from the Regulating act of 1773, enacted by the British Crown upon India.

Notice the interesting date of this. Perhaps the NWO runs deeper than we think? Like, the House of Lords in London?

Examine this scenario.


British begin colonization and exploitation of the American Continent. Business is booming after about 1680, as nearly limitless resources allow rich businessmen to become richer by extorting huge fees for imported goods, such as beaver furs, oak, and various other goods from the 'new world' (note the name)


Things are still carrying along quite splendidly, and every businessman and supporter of colonization in England is showing considerable profit, and are loving life. The congress in England begins taxation without representation, becoming even more rich.

Speedbump. The Colonies have begun to fight back. They're rebelling. With such incidents as the Boston Tea Party, and the Boston Massacre, the colonists are steadily costing the businessmen in control hundreds of thousands of pounds per year in damages, and refusals to pay.

A new solution-

In 1773 the British government took over some responsibility for ruling British India. The "Regulating Act" set up a governor-general and council nominated partly by the East India Company and partly by the government.

I\'m sensing a very strong connection between the NWO/British Government/British East India company here.

We can see from the incidence of these dates that those in control could see what was happening in America, and decided to move their operation. Basically, the Regulating act of 1773 was the British government signing over control of the 3 most profitable areas of India from the Indians to the British East India company, with a token few British officials as figureheads in the government there.

Basically, I'm seeing a massive funnel for all funds to be routed to the NWO. I'm sure that in their nearly 180 years in power in India, they stole tens of Millions of Pounds in assets of the Indian nation.

I also speculate that perhaps this practice has not been discontinued. Notice that an alarmingly high percent of tech jobs in America are being outsourced to southeast Asia.

An interesting statistic:

The lease on all the land appropriated by the Crown in India was £20,000 pounds per year. This in the 1700s, folks. £2,101,113.59 in the year 2002 has the same "purchase power" as £20,000 in the year 1750.

The British East India company held all of these leases.

After it's dissolution, one of it's subsidiaries was allowed to take control of all assets. This is of course the subsidiary of which Earthscum spoke, which maintians an office in London to this day. Imagine if these assets have been held, and reinvested? Or, even the outside chance that these leases are still maintained? It would be no small wonder that the NWO is very powerful.

posted on Sep, 20 2004 @ 09:36 AM
The Dutch rival-
The Dutch began serious “spice” trade before the English. By the time John Company arrived in the East Indies the Dutch were well established. The VOC (Dutch East Inidies Company) 1595 the Dutch send their first trading ship(s) to the Indies. 1600-03 Japanese trade opens.

The only port for Japanese trade was Deshima, an artificial island in the bay of Nagasaki that was a Dutch trading post from 1641 until 1853. During this period, no foreigners except the Dutch were allowed to trade with Japan, and the Dutch in Japan were not allowed to leave Deshima.(Wikipedia)

(Wikipedia) Dutch East Indies:
In 1652, Jan van Riebeeck established a post at the Cape of Good Hope (south end of Africa, currently in South Africa) to resupply VOC ships on their journey to East Asia. This post later became a conventional colony when other Europeans started to settle there. VOC trade posts were also established in Persia (now Iran), Bengal (now Bangladesh and part of India), Ceylon (now Sri Lanka), Malacca (Melaka, now in Malaysia), Siam (now Thailand), mainland China (Kanton), Formosa (now Taiwan) and southern India. In 1662, Koxinga expelled the Dutch from Taiwan. By 1669, the VOC was the richest company the world had ever seen, with over 150 merchant ships, 40 warships, 50,000 employees, a private army of 10,000 soldiers, and paid a dividend of 40%.

This was a private company. Notice its sheer size.

The Dutch also conquered Taiwan after driving the Spanish out.

(Wikipedia) Taiwan
Dutch traders, in search of an Asian base first claimed the island in 1624 as a base for Dutch commerce with Japan and the Chinese coast. Two years later, the Spanish established a settlement at Santissima Trinidad on the northwest coast of Taiwan near Keelung, which they occupied until 1642 when they were driven out by the Dutch. The Dutch East India Company (VOC) administered the island and its predominantly aboriginal population until 1662, setting up a tax system, schools to teach romanized script of aboriginal languages and evangelizing. Although its control was mainly limited to the southwest and north of the island, the Dutch systems were adopted by succeeding occupiers. The first influx of migrants from the China came during the Dutch period, in which merchants and traders from China sought to purchase hunting licensed from the Dutch or hide out in aboriginal villages to escape the authorities in China. Most of the immigrants were young single males who were discouraged from staying on the island often referred to by Chinese as "The Gate of Hell" for its reputation in taking the lives of sailors and explorers.

The Dutch had the same pattern to trade as the English- conquest- enslavement, massacre where deemed appropriate, rape of people and resources. Profits were good for the Dutch.

Then came the Chinese.

(Wikipedia) In 1661, Koxinga led his troops to a landing at Lu'ermen to attack Taiwan. By the end of the year, he had chased out the Dutch, who had controlled Taiwan for 38 years. Koxinga had devoted himself to making Taiwan into an effective base for anti-Qing sympathizers who wanted to restore the Ming Dynasty to power. He died suddenly at the age of 39 in a fit of madness.

The Dutch trade remained strong in the East Indies and in China while holding a monopoly with Japan. This strangle-hold weakened as England exerted more and more power in the region. A series of European wars with the English ended in 1688 when William III of Orange and Stadholder of the Dutch. Williams mother was Mary Stuart, daughter of King James II of England.

While nutmeg* was extremely important to the Dutch with the new comer (British East Indies Company) other “spices” would become even more important.

PBS Opium Kings timeline


Residents of Persia and India begin eating and drinking opium mixtures for recreational use.
Portugese merchants carrying cargoes of Indian opium through Macao direct its trade flow into China.


Ships chartered by Elizabeth I are instructed to purchase the finest Indian opium and transport it back to England.


English apothecary, Thomas Sydenham, introduces Sydenham's Laudanum, a compound of opium, sherry wine and herbs. His pills along with others of the time become popular remedies for numerous ailments.


The Dutch export shipments of Indian opium to China and the islands of Southeast Asia; the Dutch introduce the practice of smoking opium in a tobacco pipe to the Chinese." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow"> Dutch East Indies from the perspective of the conquered.

During the war above noted the Dutch were the most profitable traders in the world.

Now we go back to John Company.


(Wikipedia) Nutmeg
At one time, nutmeg was one of the most valuable spices. It has been said that in England, several hundred years ago, a few nutmeg nuts could be sold for enough money to enable financial independence for life.

posted on Sep, 20 2004 @ 08:04 PM
hi everyone i got invited in on this project... i know most of you are concentrating on the begining of the 1700s. u guys have good stuff... i found this instead...

after the british east india got control of india from englands government in 1773 or so a few years later rothschild would take over englands economy.

a brief history 1750 Mayer Amschel Bauer joins oppenhiemer bank and becomes a junior partner and meets General von Estorff and then to Prince William of denmark (the main supplier of British merc troops). Later extorting 600000 pounds from those same troops and investing in the
British east india company (gold bullion) thru his son nathan.

"The elector's money had been sent to Nathan in London, who in 1808 utilized it to purchase £800,000 worth of gold from the East India Company, knowing that it would be needed for Wellington's Peninsular campaign. He made no less than four profits on this: (1) on the sale of Wellington's paper, (2) on the sale of the gold to Wellington, (3) on its repurchase, and (4) on forwarding it to Portugal. This was the beginning of the great fortunes of the house, and its early transactions may be divided into three stages, in each of which Nathan was the guiding spirit: namely, (1) from 1808 to 1815, mainly the transmission of bullion from England to the Continent for the use of the British armies and for subventions to the allies; (2) from 1816 to 1818, "bearing" operations on the stock exchange on the loans needed for the reconstruction of Europe after Napoleon's downfall; and (3) from 1818 to 1848, the undertaking of loans and of refunding operations, which were henceforth to be the chief enterprises of the house.

after waterloo and napoleans loss and a stock market crash scam, by 1815 rothschild has control of both england and frances economy, and probably the british east india company... (*1,2 seperate note, the main familes of these notably barring become the first familes in the order of russell trust association 1856) *1


*3 (timeline of events. not specific to topic. stops 1799)

posted on Sep, 29 2004 @ 12:41 AM
Mercantilism in the 1600's (background to success)

What is Mercantilism? Using the definition and sources listed at the end of this monograph:

    The following concepts taken as a whole, may be called mercantilism.

    (1) Bullionism was the belief that the economic health of a nation could be measured by the amount of precious metal, gold, or silver, which it possessed. The rise of a money economy, the stimulation produced by the influx of bullion, the fact that taxes were collected in money, all seemed to support the view that hard money was the source of prosperity, prestige, and strength.

    (2) Bullionism dictated a favorable balance of trade. A nation must export more than it imports. Exports were later defined to include money spent on freight, or insurance, or travel.

    (3) Each nation tried to achieve economic self-sufficiency. Those within a nation (state) who founded new industries should be rewarded by the state.

    (4) Thriving agriculture should be carefully encouraged. Domestic production not only prevents imports of food, but farmers also provided a base for taxation.

    (5) Regulated commerce could produce a favorable balance of trade. Tariffs should be high on imported manufactured goods and low on imported raw material.

    (6) Sea power was necessary to control foreign markets. Armies were to be supported as needed to control and protect land trade.

    (7) Colonies could provide captive markets for manufactured goods and sources of cheap raw material.

    (8) A large and controlled population was needed to provide a domestic labor force to people the colonies.

    (9) Importation of luxury items were to be avoided because they took money out of the economy unnecessarily.

    (10) Strive for monopolistic power of markets. State action was needed to regulate and enforce the above policies. One might add that there was nothing logical or consistent about mercantilism, and that it displayed, in fact, enormous variation.

      “Virtue is more to be feared than vice,
      because its excesses are not subject to
      the regulation of conscience.”
        Adam Smith

Many have heard of Adam Smith and his (An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the) Wealth of Nations. This groundbreaking work illucidated principles of free-market capitalism still followed. Concepts such as the role of self-interest, the division of labor, the function of markets, and the international implications of a laissez-faire economy (An economic doctrine that opposes governmental regulation of or interference in commerce beyond the minimum necessary for a free-enterprise system to operate according to its own economic laws.). He is most often recognized for the expression "the invisible hand," which he used to demonstrate how self-interest guides the most efficient use of resources in a nation's economy, with public welfare coming as a by-product. To underscore his laissez-faire convictions, Smith argued that state and personal efforts, to promote social good are ineffectual compared to unbridled market forces.

In 1751 Smith was appointed professor of logic at Glasgow university, transferring in 1752 to the chair of moral philosophy. His lectures covered the field of ethics, rhetoric, jurisprudence and political economy, or "police and revenue. Smith did not practice what he preached. Dying in 1790, after an illness it was discovered that Smith had devoted a considerable part of his income to numerous secret acts of charity.

Mercantilistic activities drove nations to pursue the entire world as their source of wealth, including their own people. Mercantilism probably came about after the decline of feudalism. The Hanse was an early attempt of monopoly powers that melded into the new theories and philosophies of mercantilism.

Spain became the first nation that extolled mercantilism. Through luck or divine guidance Spain grabbed into the New World (Americas) first. Portugal, Holland and England to a lesser extent along with France had pursued trade interests throughout the European world including the Mediterranean-Africa areas and down the western coast of Africa.

By 1500, scarce 100 years prior to the founding of the British East Indies Company mercantilism was in full flower. Mercantilist policies adopted during the reign of Queen Elizabeth were continued in the seventeenth century under the Stuarts and Oliver Cromwell. Elizabethan laws were passed as quickly and forcefully as political expediency allowed.

The legal discouragement of idleness and rewards to industrial enterprise with monopolies along with state control of commerce provided a solid grasp of all wealth by the state. Queen Elizabeth gave her justices of the peace the authority to fix prices, regulate hours, and compel every able-bodied subject to work at some useful trade. Her successors enacted the Navigation Acts whereby seaborn trade was regulated and taxed.

Other European states used mercantilistic principles as well even though differing in their application.

German mercantilism was concerned primarily with increasing the economic power of the state by internal regulation. It heralded later attempts at economic nationalism and a planned society. Because they aimed primarily at increasing national revenue, German mercantilists were known as cameralists, from Kammer, the royal treasury.

France displayed the most thoroughgoing mercantilism and was intent on developing the welfare of the middle class. This prohibited the export of money, levied high tariffs on foreign manufactures, and gave liberal bounties to encourage French shipping. France purchased Martinique and Guadeloupe islands in the West Indies, encouraged settlement in Santo Domingo, Canada, and Louisiana, and established trading "factories" (armed commercial posts) in India and Africa.

England was interested in enriching the 'elite,' Germany the state, France the middle-class and Spain the crown. England and Spain had the most similar goals. Both nations exhibited large numbers of aristocrachy that seemingly had insatiable appetities. Spain differed considerably in one major aspect, the desire for religious conversion. No other nation had a drive for religious goals similar to Spain.

The Dutch (Holland) were the bastards of the bunch. No nationalistic drive, no religious zealotry, no enrichment of a class or monarch drove the Dutch. Pure and simple individual greed was their motivator. Hence they had the most successful commercial enterprises until militarily overwhelmed.

Europe had seemed a crowed place until colonialism took hold. Then, almost miraculously there were to few people to profitably occupy the foreign conquests. All these nations suffered a paucity of population.
Colonialism was the other end of the mercantilism funnel. Native peoples became nothing more than another commodity to feed the European appetite.

Additional sources at this point:

Mercantilism -
mercantilism. The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition. 2001
Elizabeth I, and Oliver Cromwell conformed their policies to mercantilism. In France its chief exponent was Jean ... Horrocks, A Short History of Mercantilism (1925); D. C. Coleman, ed ... -
Mercantilism Laura LaHaye ... -
Yahoo! Directory Economic History > Mercantilism
Columbia Encyclopedia: Mercantilism - includes a brief definition -
Mercantilism on
... Elizabeth I, and Oliver Cromwell conformed their policies to mercantilism. In France its chief exponent was Jean ... Horrocks, A Short History of Mercantilism (1925); D. C. Coleman, ed ... -
The Institute for Economic Democracy highlights sustainable development through economic democracy and democratic cooperative capitalism. The... -
Mercantilism [mûr'kuntilizum] Pronunciation Key. ... Henry VIII, Elizabeth I, and Oliver Cromwell conformed their policies to mercantilism. ... -
Mercantilism , economic system of the major trading nations during the 16th, 17th, and 18th cent., based on the premise that national wealth and power were best served by increasing exports and collecting precious metals in return. ... and Oliver Cromwell - - Results for mercantilism -
Mercantilism , or the mercantile theory, was the economic theory utilized by Great Britain ... The idea behind mercantilism was to amass wealth through a favorable balance ... -
Mercantilism: The Shaping of an Economic Language - , Trouver les prix les plus bas... -
mercantilism -- Encyclopædia Britannica Article ... MLA style: "Mercantilism." Encyclopædia Britannica. 2004. Encyclopædia Britannica Premium Service. ... -
Mercantilism: The Shaping of an Economic Language
Bookchecker vergleicht Verfügbarkeit, Preise, Lieferkosten und Lieferzeit bei online Buchhändlern... -
MSN Encarta - Mercantilism , economic policy prevailing in Europe during the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries ... of exports over imports. Mercantilism was characterized not so much by a ... -

new topics

top topics


log in